1
DFRPG / Re: What is and isn't a Lawbreaker?
« on: August 05, 2010, 06:41:24 AM »
Hi Ophidimancer
I made the list up after thinking about what lawful actions, if any, a neuromancer might be allowed to do.
Stephen
First, Its not anything official. It represents the guidance and training given to any apprentice neuromancer in my DGRPG about the acts a neuromancer might be allowed to do.
Stephen
Mostly correct but beware of totally controlling a person's senses in a way that totally constrains their thoughts, feelings or actions, it could lead to lawbreaking or warden induced head removal.
Stephen
Quote from: Stephen on August 01, 2010, 02:34:58 AM
Magic used to read or affect human Thoughts and Beliefs is unlawful.
Magic used to read or affect human Desires and Motivation is unlawful.
Nyarlathotep5150 said
Harry's Lust potion didn't break the 4th law on the soul basis that it didn't FORCE you to do anything you weren't already inclined to do, it just gave you a heavy nudge in that direction. So you can affect the desires/motivations/beliefs of other humans just fine, its forcibly dictating their course of action (taking away their free will)that breaks the law. Saying, "You will have sex with the next person you see." is a law breaker, Saying, "You will find the next person you see insanely attractive." is technically legal.
There are two laws a neuromancer must be known by other wizards to always keep, don't invade someone's mind and don't control their will. Other uses of magic may affect areas of the mind without concern about an invasion of mind that a neuromancer must always deal with, so I agree with your example and possibly your point but my post wasn't about mind magic generally, it was about what was safely lawful for neuromancy.
Whether something is 'technically legal' may allow escape from lawbreaking but could still involve a meeting with a warden or might be accepted by a warden but still result in lawbreaking.
Stephen
Nyarlathotep5150 said
As far as the sleep issue, I don't think a sleep spell falls under mind control at all. Sure sleep is run by the brain (As is everything your body does), but its a physical state. Making someone fall asleep is no more controlling their mind than giving them the hiccups would be.
Hey, you are entitled to hold differing beliefs but lets be clear, I said it was lawful for a neuromancer to change this and you aren't disagreeing about that and we agree that sleep is run by the brain.
It may be lawful for wizards to use magic to change human Thoughts, Beliefs, Emotions, Moods, Desires and/or Motivation provided they clearly can't[i/] invade someone's mind and clearly can't[i/] bind their will, but when there is the possibility that these may[i/] occur a warden's visit can be justified.
Stephen
I made the list up after thinking about what lawful actions, if any, a neuromancer might be allowed to do.
Stephen
I'm confused, is this a list of things that are allowed or disallowed?
First, Its not anything official. It represents the guidance and training given to any apprentice neuromancer in my DGRPG about the acts a neuromancer might be allowed to do.
Stephen
I would think that using magic to affect a person's senses is not a violation of the law, since you are not reading their thoughts or removing their free will. The person still has their free will, its just that their senses may not be telling them what they might normally (like a complex veil, or any of the mundane methods to impair someone's senses).
Mostly correct but beware of totally controlling a person's senses in a way that totally constrains their thoughts, feelings or actions, it could lead to lawbreaking or warden induced head removal.
Stephen
Quote from: Stephen on August 01, 2010, 02:34:58 AM
Magic used to read or affect human Thoughts and Beliefs is unlawful.
Magic used to read or affect human Desires and Motivation is unlawful.
Nyarlathotep5150 said
Harry's Lust potion didn't break the 4th law on the soul basis that it didn't FORCE you to do anything you weren't already inclined to do, it just gave you a heavy nudge in that direction. So you can affect the desires/motivations/beliefs of other humans just fine, its forcibly dictating their course of action (taking away their free will)that breaks the law. Saying, "You will have sex with the next person you see." is a law breaker, Saying, "You will find the next person you see insanely attractive." is technically legal.
There are two laws a neuromancer must be known by other wizards to always keep, don't invade someone's mind and don't control their will. Other uses of magic may affect areas of the mind without concern about an invasion of mind that a neuromancer must always deal with, so I agree with your example and possibly your point but my post wasn't about mind magic generally, it was about what was safely lawful for neuromancy.
Whether something is 'technically legal' may allow escape from lawbreaking but could still involve a meeting with a warden or might be accepted by a warden but still result in lawbreaking.
Stephen
Nyarlathotep5150 said
As far as the sleep issue, I don't think a sleep spell falls under mind control at all. Sure sleep is run by the brain (As is everything your body does), but its a physical state. Making someone fall asleep is no more controlling their mind than giving them the hiccups would be.
Hey, you are entitled to hold differing beliefs but lets be clear, I said it was lawful for a neuromancer to change this and you aren't disagreeing about that and we agree that sleep is run by the brain.
It may be lawful for wizards to use magic to change human Thoughts, Beliefs, Emotions, Moods, Desires and/or Motivation provided they clearly can't[i/] invade someone's mind and clearly can't[i/] bind their will, but when there is the possibility that these may[i/] occur a warden's visit can be justified.
Stephen