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Display Case / Re: DISPROVE THIS
« on: July 11, 2010, 09:47:21 AM »
Molly flaunts her boobs, period.
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Lash was capable of creating ILLUSIONS without Harry realizing it, changing actual reality is completely different.
iirc, we know that the Erkling was human at one point.
Both existing is not the same at all as both being equal.
Dear Dale:
so you propose that Laciel, caring about the to her irellevant future, used her influence to conrtol her shadow Lash, who then possessed Harry's body, fixed the LC, somehow fooled Bob, and then erseded the memmories from Lash, Harry, and Bob? Why would she not just outright force him to take up the coin? In fact, why is there a war beteween the knights and the coins at all, if the coins are that powerfull? Why would the coins even nead bearers?
the table is the sacrifice table, and a specific item indeed, as per comments of Lea, Aurura, Mab, and JB hisself.
JB allso stated that the erlking definately, and he implied the queens as well, ascended by large scale rites of sacrifice.
And I have no objection with mab being 650,000 years old..thats why I said 75,000 years at least.
and there were periods, in some case millions or billions of years, in which by our terms one or the other court would be supreme, if they even existed at all. I doubt there was a 'balanced' faerie court during the cretacous period, for example. Or the Huronian for a counter example.
so Mortal acsension + knowledge of the futrue+ pressence of the table + personal stake + explanations for some of the things that have happened + JB"s snarky comments + time travel will happen in the books sometime + ice age + near human extinction + demonreach + ...
Hi Dale
Duck shall address your cunning objections, one by one:
• Ummm, the most -likely- suspect for messing with LC to keep if from killing Harry is -Lash-. He dies, she loses a host. And being resident in his head, she was in the most advantageous position to see the issues, and know what he did wrong and how to correct them. I think he would have known if someone of Mab's ilk had crashed through the apartment protections, and the lab protections, fixed his toy, and left, as she could not have reset those protections. They were his, after all. Not hers.
• REPLY: Lash is actually the least likely suspect, after Marcone. If she could mess with his head to that degree, and mess with Bob as well ( remember Bob doesn’t know who messed with it) then there is no reason at all for most of her other deceptions. Second, this is actually the weakest link in my theory; not because Mab has to blast thru his protections and needs to be Molly to get in, but because she does not. Mab has his number, from the debt she bought from Lea, and can walk right thru his magic’s anytime she wants. What she needs to be Molly for is to know about LC in the first place, and to have foreknowledge of events accurate enough to know exactly what moves to make in those scenarios. Also, Mab is the only suspect that could just waltz past Bob without being detected.
• Actually, nothing says that Demonreach -is- 'directly under' the Stone Tablet.....or the sacrificial alter, to be more precise. The actual text in SK states that Mab -and Titania- created the place where Harry & Co fight, to settle the issue. Not that it existed all the time, unmoving. Two, they reached it by 'walking up a magical stairway into the sky' from the shore at Chicago. How far out into Lake Superior is that island again? If the area around the altar was templated on Chicago (as dresden commented on), then they would have had to travel a long way to get there. And how do you explain the dual nature of the tablet? Half the year, it is anything -but- a focus dark magic, as it is owned by Summer. The Fae have always been dual natured, as they represent nature itself. So unless you know of a well of light magic, just as deep and powerful as Demonreach, that no one knows about or has the slightest inkling exists, to act as the counterbalance to Demonreach.... Fail
• REPLY: counter fail. I think you are confusing the table, which is the sacrificial altar used by the sidhe in their accession ceremony, and thus a source of true dark power, with the other items ‘winter’s wellspring’ and ‘summers fire’ from proven guilty, which are specific to the natures of the courts. Second, why would the fae choose to put the table there, if they could have put it anywhere? The Equator for an epic battle would have made more sense. They put it over lake Chicago; over a source of dark magic 75,000 years old. That’s right, Demonreach isle has a source of dark magic beneath it over 75,000 years old; and the Isle itself was badly injured by something that happened at the start of the last ice age…
• Source of power to tap, a mortal soul to seduce and turn, giving them a wizardly source of power to play with. Nothing outside of the Sidhe ordinary there....
• REPLY: funny, I don’t recall them seducing Ramirez nearly so hard…In fact, the only wizards they have persued have been Maggie, Harry, Elaine, and Molly.
• About a 16-17 year old punk-goth runaway wizard who gets in over her head and is used to lure Harry to Arctis Tor. For all we know, the fetches were turned by the Black Council, managed to finess Mab into entrusting the Tor to them as she led Winter in such a way that she was bound to leave the Tor in their hands (anything smacking of promise is binding on fae, remember), and they let in Namshiel to do whatever it was he did besides destroying a lot of things. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a time bomb or three in her from that little sojourn to Winter, but so far we have seen no evidence of it.
• REPLY: all the evidence shows that the BC tried to deal with Mab and got outplanned, out smarted, and just plain outgunned. I consider a far more likely reason for the whole scenario is Mab needed to give herself a good quick kick in the arse, and get the whole thing moving in the right direction.
• And exactly what kind of ascension spell did she use, hmmm? Mab is kinda immortal; Molly isn't. And only a ritual of ascension could have changed that. Or divine action. Also keep in mind that what was known as Faery was around at least as long as humanity was. Who was in charge all that time before DJ MollyC came and pulled an ascension ritual out of her nether regions and decided to be the poster child for the next Stone Cold Bitch(tm)? Nature has always had balance. Can't have Winter without Summer
• Nature has not always had balance, very very much the opposite. And the time I speculate for the beginnings of Mab would be oh…75,000 years ago. Here’s the thing; I don’t believe that the nature courts have always existed. If they had, the incarnations certainly would not be human. (Behold Queen Mab..the T Rex). I think someone, a wizard, did an ascension ritual on THAT spot 75,000 years ago, starting the ice age, and killing of 90% of the people on earth at that time. Summer and the other queens were added later, to create balance and prevent extinction of all life on earth.
• Er, actually, the line is "I am Sidhe. I am Mab." No different in context than I am fae. I am American. No cosmic symbolism there, I fear.... And again. Balance. Without both, one or the other would destroy the very thing that gave them context.
• REPLY: Mab always speaks the exact truth.. as others have pointed out, there is no ‘a or an’ in that sentence. And yes, Summer was added later, to end the ice age Mab accidentally started…
Well sort of a joke.
Here is where it all came from:
JB has written that we all have missed two major clue bats in turn coat, and quite a few of us went gonzo trying to figure out what they are. I Believe it was He Whom Walks who first noted that in turn coat, when Harry is searching for Thomas, he does not use his most obvious tool, little Chicago. In fact, it’s not even mentioned in the book at all, unlike every other book when it is used or not, only referred too as a ‘tarp covered table.’
Second, Harry has nasty headaches throughout the entire book. Now there are several ideas about these headaches, many of them involving his brain damage, but especially in light of his not having them in changes, it seems clear these headaches are cause by someone messing with his head, just like the headaches he got in small favor when Mab messed with his head… hmmm…
Third, someone has messed with little Chicago before, during proven guilty, when Mab was involved oh so strangely with Molly. (more on that later.)
So, this led some of to speculate Mab had messed with Little Chicago again, or at least made Harry and Bob forget it existed at all. But Why?
Removing Little Chicago prevents Harry from finding Shaggy and Thomas directly.
It has several results, but the largest is it forces Harry to bond with Demonreach, something that JB has written he ‘will deeply regret later.’ Note that Mab, at this point, has considerable other options; She could, for example, have just walked in and offered Harry the winter knight job in return for her help rescuing Thomas. Or unleashed Lea. And those are just the unsubtle options.
Ergo, if we follow this logic, Demonreach is important to Mab, and it is important to her that Harry have it. Why? Well, many possibilities, but in my scenario, it is because Demonreach is the earthly location of the sidhe table (it is directly below it, remember summer knight); this is where, 75,000 years ago, a mortal wizard ascended to become Mab, causing the last major ice age. ( And creating that lovely source of permanent dark magic the island’s warden protects.)
As do the Mothers, as seen in SK. And as we haven't seen Titania in any meaningful way, giving Mab all this is a bit premature. Taking one slice of a whole does not give you a picture of the whole. It's just one slice.
It all came together one night when I was really tired and remembered JB had said this:
‘Well its one of the Laws (time travel) and Harry hasn’t broken it yet, so he will have too.’
So we have Mab, who knows way too much about what is going on and what will happen in the future,
who can walk right thru all of Harry’s wards anytime she wants, who forced Harry into the position of Demonreach, somehow predicting that he would take that option…
We have Lea, quite interested in Molly, even back when she was a kid.
We have the entire darn book of Proven Guilty.
We have Molly, whom has powers of illusion, enchantment, and mind control.
We have Mab, whom was probably human once, quite legendary for her illusions, enchantments, and mind controls.
And we have Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter; Margaret from Marvarid, also spelled Margot, Marit, and Maeb..or as JB spells it, Mab.
Time travel + location of sidhe table + eternal regret of Harry … Molly is Mab.
As to the rest of the queens, I suspect they came later actually, (Mab says she IS Sidhe, not she IS A sidhe.)…Molly recruited them to balance her out, and end the ice age she accidentally started.
Or as others have suggested, her personality split into pieces..but im in favor of the recruiting idea.
Enjoy disproving.