Thanks, will do.

Oh I see,  your evidence isn't that good actually..

And you haven't provided any valid evidence. In fact, your theory contradicts available evidence. Compared to that, I'd say my evidence is quite good, actually.

You seem to be missing the whole point as to why Uriel said the seven words he said to restore balance..  He says it all in Ghost Story when he revealed to Harry what actually happened.. You can twist my words all you want..

Mira, I have requested evidence and you have not provided it. Saying, "I don't have evidence, I'm just right" rather implies that you are, in fact, wrong.

However you are very mistaken, anything Lasciel said or whispered that pushed Harry one way or the other violates his free will.. That is a violation of the rules.

Facts:
A) Lasciel interfering in Harry's choices without Harry making the choice to allow her to do so is a violation of Harry's free will.
B) Lasciel interfering in Harry's choices because Harry made the choice to allow her to do so is not a violation of Harry's free will, because it was his free will that allowed her to do so.
C) Harry's choice to touch Lasciel's coin and to use hellfire created a conduit which allowed Lasciel to interfere with Harry's choices.
D) The Fallen in the coins lying to people who are connected to them because they touched the coins does not merit archangelic intervention, because Michael has told us that it's the Knights' job to handle that.

Conclusion:
If Lasciel spoke to Harry in Changes through the conduit (C) then the situation falls under (B) because Harry made the choice to create the conduit. This is not changed by the fact that she lied to him (D). Therefore, since the books have stated that the situation falls under (A), and since (A) and (B) are mutually exclusive, Lasciel must not have used the conduit between her and Harry (C) even if such conduit still exists.

That is what I am saying.

The question was how far they can extend from their Denarian hosts not the coins.. So unless
Lasciel was already held by Hannah Asher, her range was limited.. 

No evidence of this. It could either be that without a host, the Fallen in the coins can't act, or that it is simply against the rules for them to act.

Based on the power level of angels in this series, I assume that it's simply against the rules, but so far as I can tell it's 60/40 whether it's against the rules vs. if they can't.

And regardless, we know that Lasciel wasn't working with Ascher at the time, because Ascher joined up after Harry set off the ritual at Chichen Itza.

Sorry, once again you are confused..  It doesn't matter how the connection was made..

It does. It really obviously does. Ghost Story made it very clear that if you make the choice to put yourself in a position, that's your free will and angels can't do anything about it. Harry choosing to create the connection between himself and Lasciel was him using his free will to put himself in a position where Lasciel could influence him.

Mira, as I understand it, your claim is:
A) Lasciel used the connection between herself and Harry to speak to him
--no evidence of this that you've provided, and it is contradicted by the evidence and logic I've provided
B) because she couldn't speak to him otherwise
--as I understand the evidence, the balance of probability is weighted slightly against this, and you have provided no evidence to change that
C) which she was able to do because her coin was in close proximity to him
--contradicted by WoJ, which if nothing else definitely states that distances on Earth are irrelevant when it comes to the Fallen influencing those who are connected to them through the coins.

You see why I have a problem with your argument now?

My understanding of the coins is that the fallen within can only act through their hosts. That absent a rider they can't act in the world at all.

Could be true. It's unclear whether it's impossible or just against the rules. Given the power level of angels in this series, I'm inclined toward "against the rules."

The connection was destroyed and Lasciel no longer has access.

I'm inclined to think this.

I took the shadow who whispered to be Anduriel.  Not Lasciel.

Could very well have been, in which case my theory would be wrong. Lasciel implied in Skin Game that it was her, but there's more than enough leeway that it could have been Anduriel.

yet at the end of White Night that echo Harry heard scared him so much, he immediately went to dig up the coin and called Father Forthill to pick it up.   So Harry at least thought there still might be a connection that he didn't want any part of.

Mira, you cannot state your personal theories as if they were 100% true without providing a scrap of evidence, and definitely not while at the same time saying that the evidence of people who, unlike you, are actually providing some, isn't up to your standards.

There is no evidence that Harry was afraid of a remaining connection to Lasciel, or that that was why he gave the coin to Father Forthill. It could just as easily have been that Lash's sacrifice helped him get to the point where he was prepared to give up all possibility of him using the coin's power, instead of trying to avoid it but keeping it in reserve.

Oh yes, but do you remember how the stage was set in White Night? Context matters..
   He still heard the voice in White Night, which scared him enough to get rid of the coin..  He began to have severe headaches from that point on, you do remember in Turn Coat when Morgan showed up Harry was having a migraine.   Um since Lash sacrificed herself at the end of White Night that we know now he was pregnant with their child.  These are facts, and facts matter.. The question is how Lasciel if she was trapped in the coin as of Changes, could still influence a wounded Harry in Father Forthill's office.  I explained a theory that I have about how it came about, which I think is quite logical.  Oh yes, Uriel in Ghost Story confirmed that it was Lasciel who managed to push Harry over the edge into being suicidal.  So how could that be?  So had Hannah Asher at that point already taken up the coin ?  If she had, did Nic via Andriel find out that Harry was wounded in Father Forthill's office, let Hannah know and in turn she enabled  Lasciel to do her thing?  That kind of
works..  Or another is the coin was still under lock and key in Father Forthill's office at the time of Changes because for reasons already stated.  Lasciel clearly wants revenge,  Harry is vulnerable for the reasons already stated, it is very possible that not all lines of communication were severed with the coin when Lash sacrificed herself at the end of White Night.  That is what scared him enough to dig it up and hand it over to Father Forthill at the end of White Night.  Harry even boasts to Mab in Changes that he could still call up Lasciel's coin as an alternative to becoming her Knight.  No one is sure if that was just bravado on his part to get a better deal or not, but he did say it.  If it was true, damn right there is enough connection for Lasciel to show up and mess with Harry's already enormous guilt complex.  Context matters, setting the stage matters for what is to come, so hell yeah, what happened back in White Night set the stage for what happened in Changes, and what happened there set the stage for Skin Game..

I think the problem here is that you've forgotten how you used evidence in your own argument. Your claim was that Harry being able to play the guitar at the end of White Night was evidence of a remaining connection with Lasciel--and I'm saying that you're wrong, and I know you're wrong because it was said outright in Skin Game that Harry could still play the guitar because he of Bonnie, which means that it isn't evidence that Lasciel could still influence Harry.

What is your theory?

Lasciel's coin could have been anywhere on Earth and she could still reach out to Harry because she could reach out to anyone on Earth--it's just against the rules.

If Lasciel still had a connection to Harry which formed as a result of him touching her coin, and that connection was how she spoke to him, then it wouldn't be against the rules because Harry made the free-willed choice to touch the coin and form the connection. Since we know that what she did was against the rules, we know that she didn't use such a connection.

It's fairly solid canon at this point that the Denarians have infiltrated the parts of the Church responsible for tracking the Coins, supporting the Knights, etc.  I think the Church ALWAYS presumes there's one or two moles, but Michael and others have remarked in recent books that too many coins have gotten away from Church control too quickly, and an unusal degree of infiltration is implied.

It has been WAG'ed that Fr. Forthill might be one of the ones who sometimes returns a coin to them.
 
He doesn't even have to be "corrupted" or working for them.  Imagine:  Nic shows up, he has an innocent in his grasp, and he says to Forthill,

Yes, but if Father Forthill returned Lasciel's coin to Nic when Harry gave it to him just after the end of White Night, then you would expect Nic to know that something had changed for Harry when he spoke to Harry in Small Favor, which he manifestly didn't.

And all this assumes that Harry gave the coin to Father Forthill instead of Michael, which we don't know, and also ignores that Michael would almost certainly "coincidentally" stumble onto something alerting him if it was Father Forthill.

Not so,  because if it were in a Knight there would be no imbalance.

Unless the Knight was transformed.

However you are also wrong, the Mother's would know if it had been in a Knight, because there would be no imbalance.

Unless the Knight was transformed.

The Queens would know, because there would be no imbalance.

Unless the Knight was transformed.

Unless it was transformed which it was.

See? You know this. So what even was the point of those three sentences?

Now you'd think it would be hard to transform a Knight once the mantle is established into a statue.

Why? I don't think it would be hard for a Summer Queen to do to a Summer Knight anything she wanted. It's not like Lily was known for her strong will, and she wouldn't have the first clue how to use the power in the mantle if she wanted to--which, given that Aurora was her friend and almost certainly didn't tell her what she was planning, she almost certainly wouldn't have.

And I think turning a Knight into a statue would be much easier than trying to stick the mantle into a statue. I seriously doubt the mantle could be put into a statue that wasn't also a person, since if it could be then there would be no reason for Aurora not to just do that--and given that the Lily-statue was so much a statue that even a normal counter-spell from Aurora (who cast the spell) wouldn't un-statue her, and an Unraveling from Mother Winter was needed, it seems far more likely than not that the mantle would have treated someone trying to put it in statue-Lily as someone trying to put it in a statue, not a person.

2] Within a Queen or a Knight, or the Mothers would sense it. Which they don't.
3] If it were already in a Knight, the Mothers would sense it, which they don't.

In point of fact, it is only said that the Mothers would sense the Knight mantle if it were within one of the Queens, not if it were in a Knight.

You are aware that is the exact opposite order from what you posted 3 posts up?

This. Mira, you said that Lily was turned into a statue and then was made the Summer Knight. This was the order of events that I was objecting to.

Actually we do, it is when Harry visits the Mothers, the reason for the imbalance and the coming
war is no one seems to know where the Knight's mantle is.   It is hidden and the only person thought able to do that is Mab, so she is being accused of it.  No, Aurora turned Lily into a statue, then hid the mantle in it.   They would know if it was accepted, no one did, it was hidden by Aurora.  That
is what Harry figured out in the cottage in his visit with the Mothers, that is why he was given the Unraveling.

You're wrong. Here's the quote:

"But think, wizard. How was it done? Theft is theft, whether the prize is food, or riches, or beauty or power."
Since it didn't seem to matter either way, I did my thinking out loud. "When something is stolen a couple of things can happen to it. It can be carried away where it cannot be reached."
"Hoarded," Summer put in. "Such as the dragons do."
"Yeah, okay. Uh, it can be destroyed."
"No, it can't," Mother Winter said. "Your own sage tells you that. The German fellow with the wild hair."
"Einstein," I muttered. "Okay, the, but it can be rendered valueless. Or it can be sold to someone else."
Mother Summer nodded. "Both which are change."
I held up a hand. "Hold it, hold it. Look, asI understand it, this power of the Summer Knight, his mantle, it can't just exist on its own. It has to be inside a vessel."
"Yes," Winter murmured. "Within one of the Queens, or within the Knight."
"And it isn't with one of the Queens."
"True," Summer said. "We would sense it, were it so."
"So it's already in another Knight," I said. "But if that was true, there'd be no imbalance." I scratched at my head, and as I did it slowly dawned on me. "Unless it had been changed. the new Knight had been changed. Transformed into something else. Something that left the power trapped, inert, useless."
Both of them regarded me steadily, silently.
"All right," I said. "I have my question."
"Ask it," they said together.
"How does the mantle pass on from one Knight to the next?"
Mother Summer smiled, but the expression was a grim one. "It returns to the nearest reflection of itself. She, in turn, chooses the next Knight."
That meant that only one of the Queens of Summer could be behind it. Titania was out already--she had begun the war against Mab because she didn't know where the mantle was. Mother Summer would not have been telling me this information if she'd been the one to do it. That left only one person.
"Stars and stones," I muttered. "Aurora."

No confirmation of order of events.