Too...much...Star Trek?  *tilts head* I don't follow.

But yes, you may be right. I was not arguing about the existence of the Outsiders as a plot device but the "in universe" explanation for the presence of "gates".

That one is simple. Because if there is a Wall, it is far, far better to be fighting on the far side of it than your own. And your guys have to go to that side to do that fighting.

My money is on an ember, but that rectangle is weird.

As to the red glow in the staff, I was reading SG, and the staff glowed green and whatever depending on the magic Harry used. I think it was green and white for force and green and blue for light. Maybe it would be green and red for fire.

I think that the green glow simply has to do with where the staff originated. Harry mentions that the blank was taken from the oldest oak on the island, and before that he comments that the oldest trees on the island are older than Chicago. The intrinsic color of Alfred and the Well are green, so if wood has been marinating in the island’s magic for the better part of two hundred years, I’m pretty sure the green is now the default setting. Just a signature of the island.

When Harry uses some other type of magic, it takes precedence over green.

Just thought of this. If Harry ever had to walk through that big circle again, he could take that staff with him—because it’s “of the island”. Guessing that’s part of the reason he used that one instead of the blank Ebenezar was supposed to send him. Guess he’s smarter than I am!

Just to plug what has become a very long discussion...

A. Jim has said that Harry will go back to being a PI again. “He needs something to do when he’s not Wizarding”.

B. I think the main reason Carlos was placed in charge of Security in what should be Harry’s area of responsibility Was that’s Harry currently has the White Council crapping their collective pants. Not just the Winter Knight thing, or being in control of Demonreach, but the whole “coming back from the dead” thing. The last guy to pull that trick was an ongoing problem—and they don’t know yet about Harry’s “special “code blue” circumstances.

As Thomas said, adding Harry to the security team, rather than placing him in charge of it, let’s them keep an eye on him. Because everyone on the Senior Council had to know that Harry was the first person Carlos would ask.

Harry has been busy rebuilding his life, and bonding with Maggie. I’m guessing that he hasn’t hurried into getting lots of things done while she is out of school—and staying with him—over the summer. Such as reporting in person to Edinburgh.

I’m also taking a wild guess that a substantial amount of the Senior Council mistrust is attenuated by the end of Battle Ground.

For whoever was counting potential deaths, remember that the “younger” Wardens, whom Harry mostly worked with and helped train, constitute somewhere around 240 of the 300 Warden roster figure we last had. I’m guessing that group gets hit hard in Battle Ground. Lots of people that Harry knows and cares about off page.

Given the nature of the book, the FBI (and Tilly) will be involved around. Since SI was bullied away from Harry by City administration, perhaps that will be Harry’s new contact level. Either that, or Marcone decided he’s tired of bearing such a big part of the bill for protecting Chicago from supernatural threats, and leans on those same administrators to open up the SI spigot again.

Since Butters character arc was mentioned, I’ll point out that not only was his story arc capped by his choice to go out and sacrifice himself—which he had never done before—his possession of the Sword as it currently is expressed isn’t a matter of “not being able to have sword fights”. The Swords exist to defeat evil, not to fence with it.

BTW—Did anyone else notice that Butters choice to sacrifice himself even just as a stall tactic actually would have worked? By the time Nick finished killing Butters and getting his Squires heads back together, Molly would have had boots on the grind.

I’m also not sure just how long Butters will bear that Sword. But that’s another story.

Back on topic...as far as Irwin and Connie are concerned, I’m not sure whether or not they’ll be on Chicago in July, when school starts at the end of August. However, the fact that they’re moving into a staff apartment on campus at least makes that possible.

I’m wondering—assuming the two lovebirds are in Chicago in July when a Titan and her “army” show up—if they’re at enough risk that River Shoulders hears about it...and Shows Up. Jim has talked about all of the action figures he has on the shelf he hasn’t really had a chance to take down and play with yet. Along with the whole Senior Council, I kinda hope that River Shoulders would be another one.

I think that the key part is that Harry effectively swore Bob to secrecy before he ever let him start looking around.

Of course, I’m not sure how effective that is.

You might be talking "neutral" in terms of the Accords, but many people are talking about her cover story of neutrality. The neutrality explicitly stated in books. It's pretty common for people to build theories around that neutrality or to object to theories based on that neutrality. The fact that it's a cover is only stated by Jim. It's not in any of the books, short stories, comic books, or paranet papers.

Ah. I see where the misapprehension comes in. Alas.

I am familiar with that WOJ. Jim elaborated on how it’s the Archive’s cover story that her role is simply to be the repository of all human knowledge—when she is actually on the lookout for mentions of beings better left forgotten. At which point she dispatches agents to deal with them.

That is not a lack of “neutrality”. Being neutral does not mean being inactive. Switzerland has been neutral for centuries, and yet continues to be active in it’s own pursuits.

The Archive is neutral. She doesn’t ally with anyone, or act in any interests of any party other than those of the Archive itself.

Though she might work around the edges of that proscription where one of her two friends is involved.

So, “neutral” is not a synonym for “inactive”. I hope That helps all of the people out there who misunderstand.

There's a WoJ that being in the coins limits the influence of the Fallen in them to Earth, which I had taken to mean that the Fallen in the coins absolutely can project themselves out of them, it's just against the rules. If that's the case, then there wouldn't be any need for a ritual.

I think you perhaps misunderstood that WOJ.

When a Coin is in secure storage, it is able to influence it’s immediate surroundings. Slightly, to the extent that over an extended period of time, it can work it’s way back into circulation.

The speed that coins have gotten back into circulation so fast indicates corruption, a outside force other than the coin/Fallen combo.

A Fallen that dominates it’s host (such as the first incarnation of Ursiel) has limited abilities due to a lack of the hosts’ choice in every action.

For a Fallen such as Anduriel, working in partnership with Nick, enabled by free choice, Jim was saying that their power is “limited” to this world alone, to Earth—rather than galaxies, the universe, Reality—as Uriel’s power is limited only by choice.

In essence, that a Fallen working in partnership effectively has unlimited power—but it’s restricted to Earth. That’s their only limit. He’s saying that they are still very powerful.

As far as which Fallen influenced Harry in Changes, there is a WOJ that I didn’t understand until now.  In Skin Game, Lasciel made it clear that it was she who had done it, and now I think I understand. Most of it, anyway.

I don’t recall the context, but WOJ said that in Changes when Harry told Mab that he had other options besides taking up the mantle of the Winter Knight, he was “kinda lying”. I puzzled over that one for a while, because Jim had made it clear that he thought that was an
option for Harry.

Then I got it. By the time Changes rolled around, Lasciel’s Coin had already escaped containment. Not only that, but someone had also taken up the coin for themselves.

That’s how A. Lasciel was able to act, and B. Why Harry would have been able to summon the coin, even though he thought he’d be able to. In other words, it’s not a lie if you believe you’re correct.

The only qualifier being that the person who took up Lasciel’s coin had to either voluntarily give it up or lose it—intentionally, so that it could be given to Hannah Ascher.

In the former case, just as an example, someone like Nick might have put down Anduriel temporarily—or ordered someone else to do so—just so that Lasciel could act against Harry at a crucial juncture. Well, Anduriel would have known that it was a “crucial juncture”, after all.

Anyway, that makes sense to me.

What happened to Ursiel and Lasciel’s coins after Harry left is another question. I suppose it’s possible that Nick managed to grab Ursiel’s coin before he made a dash for it. Not Lasciel’s—though if Hannah Ascher managed to survive beneath all of that molten rock, that seems a very Jim thing to do.

Otherwise, it would appear that Hades has a couple more religious artifacts to display when he tidied up Vault Seven.

Given that Mai is one of the prime candidates for being on the Black Council, her realization that Harry associates with a genuine Foo Dog may actually be more of an "oh shit!" moment than an "oh my!" moment...

Mai being “one of the prime candidates for Black Council“ according to whom?

Please. The woman is so rigidly on the good side that she practically has “Lawful Good” stamped on her forehead. The stone Temple Dogs that she created are a blatant symbol by Jim of exactly what side she’s on—and how.

Indeed, her problem with Harry is that she’s so firmly entrenched on the “good” side that she sees the bad things, and isn’t capable of grasping shades of gray. It’s either/or with her, a binary solution set.

That Ancient Mai would be Black Council is ridiculous. It’s like saying that Mister Ferro would be—outside of him ever having received that gift at Bianca’s party. I guess we’ll find out shortly whether that one “got” him or not.

One thing that I'm looking forward to sometime in the near future would be Ancient Mai doing an about-face in her attitude towards Harry. She has made certain assumptions regarding him in the past. In the face of seeing him accompanied by a Foo Dog, she has to be aware that many of those assumptions are invalid. Especially considering she's obviously a true believer in Occam's Razor. In this case, the simplest explanation is that Harry isn't innately evil, like she thought he was.

  He most likely encouraged Susan to keep the child in the area, he plotted with the Red King to murder the innocent family she stayed with and kidnap the child.   

I find myself curious where this steady assumption of Susan keeping Maggie "in the area" has arisen from. The text specifically says that Maggie was with placed with a family "away from the fighting". The only indication of where that family may have actually been located would be assumptions based solely on their surname.

Which reminds me of how, in one book signing, someone put their foot in it by suggesting that Injun Joe might have been a suspect as being responsible for the naagloshi--because, after all, he's a Native American.

Jim...well, I'll politely say that he refuted that one emphatically. Canon said long ago that Injun Joe was an Illinois medicine man, and Jim pointed out just how far removed the tribes of the Southwest are from those of the Midwest. Matter of fact, he made a point of making a parallel of just how distant that relationship would be if we were talking in terms of European nations. I believe his reference was something like from Italy to Norway.

Saying that Maggie was "in the area" simply because the family she was with had a Hispanic surname is nothing but more of the same. And it didn't really matter where she was, because even if Maggie was in Alaska, after Martin tells them where she was, the exact same thing would have happened.

I've seen what appears to be a number of misapprehensions about Susan Rodriguez in this thread. Please pardon me as I get back on topic my next post.