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Messages - Suilan

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1
Author Craft / Re: How far to take Grammar
« on: November 08, 2011, 05:43:58 PM »
Heh. Used to have impassioned differences of opinion with one of my linguistics professors IN CLASS. But she was a linguistics geek too, so everybody enjoyed it. Except, perhaps, the other students. XD

Yep. Syntax was my favourite class back at Uni. (Though phonetics & phonology was pretty interesting as well and semantics and language dysfunctions due to brain damage and... ah, well.)

Are there linguistics professors that aren't linguistics geeks? What an odd concept.

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Author Craft / Re: How far to take Grammar
« on: November 08, 2011, 05:11:22 PM »
I'm the choir, Shecky.

(But then, I read grammar books for fun...)

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Author Craft / Re: How far to take Grammar
« on: November 08, 2011, 11:46:10 AM »
Best book on Punctuation I've found so far (and I've read five cover to cover): A Dash of Style, by Noah Lukeman. It's a about style and voice and how they are created/supported by punctuation, not about classroom opinions of "right" or "wrong" punctuation. It's aimed specifically at fiction writers, so it's about the creative use of punctuation, about its literary effects, not just about clarity, which is the major concern of the non-fiction writer (and of all the other books on punctuation I've seen so far). A Dash of Style has lots of brilliant examples and a check list at the end of each chapter to help you analyze and develop your own punctuation (and writing) style.

As for your question of how far to take grammar: as far as you can, if you plan on querying agents or editors. Anything to make your manuscript stand out from all the other slush...

Having said that, punctuation is near the bottom of a long list of writing skills a beginning writer should work on, far below how to develop interesting characters, an exciting plot, and solid scene structure; how to write inspiring description and engaging dialogue; how to handle exposition; how to compose paragraphs ...

So I wouldn't worry about punctuation too much until after finishing the first draft of your novel or your first dozen or so short stories.

4
Author Craft / Re: Dwight V Swain
« on: December 02, 2009, 09:03:39 AM »
Quote from: SCARPA
Hickman I believe.

Perhaps you mean Jack Bickham? His "Scene and Structure" is one of my favorite writing guides (among top 5), and he does teach a scene and sequel structure à la Dwain. His example scenes are very 80s but you can still see what point he's trying to illustrate.

(There's only two other guides that taught me as much as this one, but then I did struggle to solve some structural problems in my novel, so it's not so astonishing that a book on structure should be helpful.)

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Author Craft / Re: Latin Translations
« on: August 07, 2009, 09:19:19 AM »
Quote from: novium
Now maybe this will ensure that I will be damned forever in the eyes of my Classicist brethren, but I still don't think a little dog latin is an unforgivable faux pas.

Surely not unforgivable, just embarrassing. Using Latin in your novel is a bit like bragging, and if you do that, you might want to get it right.  ;)

Quote from: neurovore
I am prepared to believe he did that deliberately.

Ah, but in my eyes, that would diminish the achievement. Anybody can make a mistake (and it's a very small one, as mistakes go), but it does show a great sense of humor to admit to it and use it for your story and make a wonderful joke about it. So I prefer to think it was a mistake.  :D

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Author Craft / Re: Latin Translations
« on: August 05, 2009, 04:50:49 PM »
I do wonder how much mail Jim Butcher received from people telling him that there are four mistakes in "Die Lied der Erlking."   I admit to some negative feelings when I first read the book, like Oh, please! If you make your bad guys German, could you at least bother to get those four words right? Takes a minute to ask someone on the internet to help you with it.

BUT Jim did recover very elegantly by having Harry laugh at the author of "Die Lied der Erlking" in Turn Coat and tell him he got the title wrong and wasn't that embarrassing for a book that's been in print for a century. That really made me chuckle. :D


7
Author Craft / Re: Latin Translations
« on: July 14, 2009, 12:22:21 PM »
Uilos, I've just noticed: in your second post you say "Shadow's Death" (= one shadow, so it's Mors Umbrae), but in your first post, you say Death of Shadows. So, if it's more than one, the correct translation is:

Mors Umbrarum = Death of (the) Shadows, or
Nex Umbrarum = (violent) Death of (the) Shadows, or
Umbrarum Nex = Shadows' (violent) Death

(word order is a stylistic choice)

Pluto, God of the Roman Underworld, was called: Umbrarum Rex (King of Shadows/dead spirits), so Umbrarum Nex would be a bit of a world play.

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Author Craft / Re: Latin Translations
« on: July 13, 2009, 06:52:28 AM »
It would be "Mors Umbrae" or "Nex Umbrae" though -- umbrae means "of (the) shadow" (genitive case=possessive)


Umbra mortis means: the shadow of death. And umbra necis: shadow of murder/violent death

Besides shadow, umbra means illusion, apparition, ghost, or spirit of a dead person (which in Greek/Roman mythology are nothing but shadows), but also shade, leisure, private life  --  so the title is rather ambiguous.


If you need more help with Latin, you could ask here:

http://forum.wordreference.com/forumdisplay.php?f=64

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Author Craft / Re: Chapter Titles yes or no?
« on: May 26, 2009, 01:05:28 PM »
Well, if I were paid in penny per so many words, I certainly wouldn't waste time on chapter titles! It only takes a moment to add another sentence to a chapter, but to find the perfect title? Well, let's just say that takes a lot longer.  :D

As for chapter titles being a relic from the old days when most fiction was published serially in magazines, why, I can imagine they might come back into style one of these days, as we live in times of decreasing attention spans and increasing number of things competing for our attention.

10
Author Craft / Re: Chapter Titles yes or no?
« on: May 24, 2009, 06:57:15 PM »
From the reader's perspective:

Chapter titles do seem to be out of fashion, at least in adult fiction. I just took a moment to search my bookshelf for any novels that use chapter titles, coming up with none (though I only searched the fantasy and scifi section) for adults, but two series for YA (Harry Potter and The Spook Series).

A good chapter title can raise the reader's expectations and, after reading the chapter, add to his or her understanding of what was the most important thing that happened in the chapter.  If you choose the title well, you won't give away too much of the plot.

From the writer's perspective:

I use them in my own writing. A good chapter title is hard to find, but the search alone (as well as the title once you've found it) helps you, the writer, focus and bring out what you really want to achieve with this chapter. Often enough, as I am struggling to come up with the appropriate title, I realize what the chapter is about, and it affects the plot. (Other writers might achieve the same effect with meticulous outlining, but that doesn't work for me.)

To me, chapter titles are part of the story, not separate from it (like a newspaper heading.) They should add to the story. If you string all your chapter titles together, you should have a near-complete list of all your major plot points.

So my advice would be: if you like them, use them. I wouldn't consider them a waste of time and effort even if, should your novel be published, the editor wants to omit them. They are really a great tool to help you organize your story.


11
Author Craft / Re: Dumb tech question
« on: January 17, 2009, 04:56:18 PM »
No CTRL (see microsoft link) needed to type l'accent grave (è), l'accent aigu (é), or l'accent circonflexe (â) at least in my version of Word. Just type the accent followed by the letter.

12
Author Craft / Re: Not a question of pace but rhythm
« on: November 07, 2008, 01:09:26 PM »
The sentence starts with 327 V8 of my 69 Camaro RS, then mentions: the streets of Washington DC; thick columns of steam; sewer grates; late November night; a stop; a building; a grand scale; huge white columns; white stone; ancient Greece; a modern American city.

So, err, what exactly is this sentence about? One sentence has room enough for one idea / topic.

BTW, you asked what could be done about the rhythm of your prose, and Kathleen answered (as I did earlier) by describing her reaction to it. It's called "constructive critique." What you do with it is entirely up to you. Try to make the most out of the feedback you get, not reject it out of hand. From experience I know that as a beginning writer, your first reaction to critique is always to defend what you have written, but there's no need to. You will NOT be able to persuade the reviewer to change his opinion of your text, and that shouldn't be your goal anyway. (BTW, it's an opinion of your text, not of you as a person. )

I know it's hard, but you need to take a step backward and try to see WHY the reviewer(s) would think so, and come to your own conclusion about how you could use this to improve your writing. If you don't, you are wasting an important opportunity.


http://www.hollylisle.com/fm/Articles/feature8.html


(There's loads of other useful advice on this website.)

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Author Craft / Re: Not a question of pace but rhythm
« on: October 15, 2008, 07:10:01 AM »
Another great book:

Noah Lukeman -- A Dash of Style

Now, it says it's about "The Art and Mastery of Punctuation"  but Lukeman takes a creative approach that's unlike any book on punctuation. He has the novelist in mind, not non-fiction writers. The book is really about writing clear, smooth sentences.

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Author Craft / Re: Not a question of pace but rhythm
« on: October 14, 2008, 07:34:01 PM »
I'm happy to have made you so happy, even if only for a minute.  ;D

What I meant by first part: everything under "near the beginning" in your post October 12, 2008, 04:13:29 AM

(Second part = everything under "near the end" in that post.)

So what took me in hour was analyzing the prose of the first five paragraphs for "bouncyness" and writing comments 1-14 in post October 12, 2008, 10:46:15 AM. BTW, I'm not on a mission here, or trying to teach you. (Teachers only teach because they get paid for it.) You asked a question, I tried to answer it. So even if you don't agree on all points, experimenting  a little can't hurt, eh? If you don't like the result, you can always change it back.


Books on revising & improving voice/style

Renni Browne & Dave King -- Self-Editing for Fiction Writers
Noah Lukeman -- The First Five Pages
Monica Wood -- Description
Constance Hale -- Sin and Syntax: How to Craft Wickedly Effective Prose




15
Author Craft / Re: Not a question of pace but rhythm
« on: October 13, 2008, 10:27:51 AM »
Sorry, I didn't say it explicitly, but I was trying to answer your original question "How to make my writing less bouncy." All my suggestions, except 6 and 12 perhaps, were written with that in mind.

(So I would argue that it's not an esoteric question at all, but one of craft.)

Taking care of these things will help with the rhythm. You do have an eye for interesting details, paragraph structure, and you dish out information in chewable bits, not dumping them on the reader, so it bodes well.  :)

There are many things I like about your writing (e.g. your use of vivid detail, such as: more rust than paint, or comments like: I was named after a horse -- laconic and intriguing) but you didn't ask for a critique, only for comments on what might be wrong with your rhythm, so that's what I commented on.  ;)

You might want to check out a guide on line editing or improving your style or writing for clarity at the library. There's some useful advice here (starting with #12) -- http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk5.html#13

Quote
I think you were tired of reading it by the second paragraph

Since commenting on the first part took me an hour, it doesn't have anything to do with being tired of reading.

It was also Stephen King (I think) who said: First drafts are crap. They're supposed to be.

So that shouldn't discourage you. A first draft should get the story down, no matter how bouncy or faulty the prose. Don't compare it to published works. Every writer, no matter how experienced, needs to revise their manuscript.

Thing is, the more effortless (smooth, less bouncy) a text appears to the reader, the more effort the writer put into it.

Regarding sentence length, you do vary it sufficiently, imo. Some sentences will be shorter once you've edited out some of the adjectives or expressions like "kind of" or "aside from the fact that." Other sentences (like the first) will appear shorter if you put the verb in earlier.

Good luck!


P.S.

Quote
You may have been looking for what could be considered wrong rather than what is wrong.


I assure you I wasn't. I'm not a teacher but a writer, translator, and linguist. Still, everything I said was a suggestion. There's no such thing as an objective opinion.  ;D

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