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Messages - g33k

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1
DF Spoilers / Re: How will Summer react to Winter’s alliance with the White Court or…
« on: Yesterday at 05:26:46 PM »
Quote from: Mira on Yesterday at 02:50:30 PM
...  Also we have no idea what Harry will be by the BAT, will the Laws of Magic as the White Council defines them even apply to him anymore?

I think Harry will still be mortal (more or less); he's already got a 400(ish) year lifespan from  being a wizard.  His mortality/humanity is part of what defines him, in the DF series.  It'd be odd for the climax of the BAT to cheap-out on that.

The WC's laws are -- approximately -- based on corresponding actual metaphysics of the Dresden verse:
 there are Laws of Magic that are largely inescapable... even if you trick the Wardens and the Council.  He may (if he picks up  the Blackstaff) be able to (temporarily) sidestep the First Law, but I don't expect Harry to ever be entirely free of the Laws.

2
DF Spoilers / Re: The Soul Gaze in Blood Rites, Something Margaret Said to Harry About Justine..
« on: Yesterday at 05:01:07 PM »
Quote from: Mira on Yesterday at 03:15:05 PM
I think you underestimate the Hunger Demon. 
AFAIK, no "Hunger Demon" has ever been shown to take more than one victim in a single feeding.

Blampires & Rampires both seem to actually relish bloodshed, readily killing multiples at once.  I think the "blood reserve" in the Rampire's abdomen might actually be able to store up to 2-3 people's blood; but no more (otoh, they seem to use it up magically, not just metabolically; so if exerting themselves on a sustained basis might go through many more per day... but then, so too do Whampires' exertions cause increased demand).

I'm unclear about the precise mechanisms of Blampires' psychic / magic / physical "need" to kill... do they  actually eat their prey?  Do they need the blood they take (to survive? to thrive? to avoid quiescent vamp-coma)?  Do they need to kill, or could they take a pint a day from a large donor-group with  no major impact (but just don't want to)?  Is it just the twisted-undead version of a reproductive urge?  Or what??!?

But my point is:  Whamps don't seem to do the large-scale massacres that Ramps & Blamps do; they mostly only need to dispose of one corpse at a time, and usually only feed-to-death in extremis (out of control)... though there are exceptions (Madeline comes to mind, I think she killed readily; and I think the Skavis/Malvora "usual" feeding was to death).

3
DF Spoilers / Re: How will Summer react to Winter’s alliance with the White Court or…
« on: Yesterday at 12:47:42 AM »
Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on October 31, 2024, 08:13:11 PM
... You are not wrong, but isn't it almost inevitable? ...

It is entirely inevitable.
Per WoJ, there will be 7 novels, each themed around Harry breaking a different Law of Magic.

So, yeah.  Harry will be f'ing with the Outer Gates.

4
DF Spoilers / Re: Cold Days, Something Mother Summer said to Harry, Molly?
« on: Yesterday at 12:26:10 AM »
Quote from: Mira on November 25, 2024, 02:55:06 PM
In Cold Days on the way to the Outer Gates, Mother Summer and Harry talk as they go.  On page 327 she says a couple of things that caught my eye upon rereading.

I think this means that Mother Summer knows what Mab's plans are for Molly whether Molly becomes Summer Lady or as turned out, Winter Lady.  However because that is in the future and would affect how Harry was about to act, and the stakes are too high to mess any of that up.  Mother Summer won't tell Harry there is any plan for Molly, her name isn't even mentioned.  However Mother Summer does tell Harry  he has a chance to defy the odds and remain himself even with the Winter Mantle.  Then she gets cryptic and hints that it isn't just him that has a chance to keep his own identity.  The only one I can think of is Molly, who as we know by the end of the book is about to become one of the Ladies.  If Harry ever remembers this conversation he should be reassured for Molly. 

I think Mother Summer was indeed talking about Harry... and also about Molly.  And about the other Masks and Mantles that are likely coming in Harry's future... and possibly other friends' too (not just Molly).

100% guarantee that Harry is going to pick up Mother Winter's Walking Stick, some time before too long (not 12M, I'm pretty sure; but maybe Mirror Mirror, or Fight Night?).  We've seen that Ebenezer can summon/dismiss the Blackstaff at will; I suspect it's another Mantle-esque thing.  Much as Vadderung can put on the Kringlemantle and take it off again, etc.
 
But most of all, I think she was trying to expand Harry's mind, get him to think outside all the boxes, the big picture, and the picture bigger than that:  "Anything is possible"  she said to Harry.

Presuming she's equally "cannot tell a lie" as all the other fae; given her perspective & scope of knowledge...  that flat declaration, that "anything," is stunning (and more than a bit terrifying).

5
DF Spoilers / Re: The Soul Gaze in Blood Rites, Something Margaret Said to Harry About Justine..
« on: Yesterday at 12:07:09 AM »
Quote from: Mira on November 25, 2024, 10:00:38 PM
Without know what effect the mantle would have on the Hunger Demon?  Really?  Would Mab do that?  Consider how hard it was for Harry to resist the urge to rape after he acquired the mantle.. Now think about a demon who feeds off of sexual pleasure on steroids because of the mantle.. No, Mab was bluffing which isn't the same as lying..
I think you underestimate Mab; she knows exactly what a Whampire Winterknight will be like (I suspect she has had them before).

It would be the simplest thing in the world to prevent rape:  surfeit the Knight with entirely-willing wintersidhe.  Give him an entourage of cold-day hotties.  Slate was a sociopath, but the Hunger Demon is just hungry:  feed it and it's pretty quiescent (it's the human side of things that turn it so very awful... but of course Whampire upbringing tends a bit toward the awful, so that's over-represented).

But Thomas?  Nah, he'd be satisfied to have a faerie courtier every other day or so.

(n.b. we saw that Thomas could have ongoing relations with svartalves, and Connie could be surfeited just with Irwin)

6
DF Spoilers / Re: Elaine is the wizard the White Council should really be afraid of.
« on: November 25, 2024, 11:56:38 PM »
Quote from: Mira on November 25, 2024, 10:16:53 PM
... I don't think the White Council even tested Elaine, after Harry killed Justin she fled to Summer where she stayed for a number of years and might very well have infested Aurora.  After that she kept such a low profile that she attracted no more notice from the Council than the other low level talents making up the Paranet.
They didn't test her in the DuMorne aftermath, no (when they collected Harry); they never connected her with DuMorne; she only appeared on-scene much later.

Warden Ramirez tested Elaine, out in LA.  Harry called to "check up on her bona fides" & Carlos confirmed it.

She wasn't quite up to WC standards... but she was close, and recognizably well-trained in WC fundamentals.

He joked that if the Rampire War continued its horrible attrition, they might have to lower their standards a little bit -- just to keep WC numbers up -- and she'd be in.

7
DF Spoilers / Re: Elaine is the wizard the White Council should really be afraid of.
« on: November 25, 2024, 08:52:15 PM »
Quote from: Mira on November 24, 2024, 08:02:12 PM
Which is an interesting statement, because if they knew what Nemesis was and feared that Harry might be under the influence, why didn't they just ask Rashid to have a look at him?  Or really check Harry out with their wizard sight?  And yes, it can be done...
I think Rashid's Eye is likely the best tool; but I don't think even that is 100% foolproof.  And I don't believe anyone on the Council -- not even Eb or the Merlin -- really understands what Rashid does as "Gatekeeper."  It's a role that transcends the White Council, and is not subject to WC rules, or rulings.  They cannot order the Gatekeeper to do anything (they can order Rashid, as WC wizard; but nothing in regards to his duties or identity as Gatekeeper).

Quote from: Mira on November 24, 2024, 08:02:12 PM
... Which makes me wonder and I have written about this before whether or not the White Council was itself trying to breed it's own starborn, one that they can control.. When Margaret took matters into her own hands so to speak, the Council still got a starborn, but not one they could control.  The Council knows what it wanted him or her for, but not what Margaret wanted, so Harry couldn't be trusted.
We are pretty sure that a "Black Council" cabal -- including Duchess Arianna & Raith Père -- had recruited Margaret LeFey to be the mother of a Starbabe that they would control.  Instead, she broke free from Lord Raith ... and unexpectedly found true love, and bore a Starborn child with Malcolm Dresden!

My own theory is that it was all a plot of Mab's, in search of an adequate Knight for the upcoming apocalypse:  setting Maggie first on that "starbabe" path, and then getting her out from under Black Council influence.

I think it reasonably-likely that the White Council had their own "starbabe plan," though I think there's less evidence in canonical texts or in WoJ's (anyone got cites?) ...

Here's a fun theory:  Elaine was the WC's plan, and they "lost track" of her too (likely a Mab or Lea machination); then when she re-surfaced, she seemed to be a "failed attempt" (in that she carefully showed up during tests as not-quite-WC-caliber).  It'd be a nice element of how Jim writes Elaine as Harry's "opposite number" in many regards.

8
DF Spoilers / Re: The Soul Gaze in Blood Rites, Something Margaret Said to Harry About Justine..
« on: November 25, 2024, 07:43:47 PM »
Quote from: Mira on November 25, 2024, 01:22:41 PM
You can be recruited to go to a school, for a job, to join the military, but you don't have to take any of those jobs ...
There is an incorrect casual-usage as you say; "recruit" as "try to persuade to join."
But the correct definition is actually getting someone to join; you have not "recruited" them if they don't.

Note the passage you quoted above:
Quote from: Mira on November 18, 2024, 11:46:44 AM
Small Favor
Quote
"Not having it could have gotten me killed, too," I said.  "And then you'd have wasted all that time you've put in trying to recruit me to be the next Winter Knight."

"Nonsense," Mab said.  "If you died, I would simply recruit your brother.  He would be well motivated to seek revenge upon your killers."
Harry: "... trying to recruit me..."
Mab: "I would simply recruit your brother."
It's clear Jim is writing with the correct usage, here (try vs would -- there is no try, Padawan!).

Mab would recruit Thomas (I mean, she'd try... successfully!  Let's face it:  Mab's 100% correct that Thomas would want revenge, and Thomas doesn't have Harry's pig-headedness, and Thomas has long been the Whamp poster-boy of go-along-to-get-along... Thomas wouldn't resist all that hard!)

But you're entirely correct, I think, in saying that none of this was what Mab wanted.  Whampire-Thomas wouldn't make nearly the caliber of Winter Knight that Starborn/Wizard Harry can be.  If things didn't work out, Thomas would have been Mab's "fallback plan," but (as she surmised) the collection of carrots + sticks that Mab had finally arrayed to get Harry as Knight was enough to do  the job.

9
DF Spoilers / Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« on: November 25, 2024, 07:26:32 PM »
Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on November 22, 2024, 02:24:21 AM
84% today...
Quote from: Lord Kinbote on November 25, 2024, 03:26:19 PM
86% this morning.

woot!
Go Jim Go!!!

(write Jim write!!!)

10
DF Spoilers / Re: The Soul Gaze in Blood Rites, Something Margaret Said to Harry About Justine..
« on: November 22, 2024, 01:43:11 AM »
Quote from: Mira on November 18, 2024, 11:46:44 AM
...
You are correct that was a declarative statement by Mab.  However as you can see when Harry says Knights have to be mortal.  Mab hedges her bets, because Thomas is in love, that makes him mortal enough for her.  Then Mab hints that a bargain that could be made with Thomas so he could hold Justine.  This fogs up what the truth is just a bit, while Mab isn't exactly lying to Harry, she isn't exactly telling the truth either.. Though by her standards she is telling the truth, yes, she could recruit Thomas to be her Knight, that isn't the same as make Thomas her Knight.. However just the suggestion that she would recruit Thomas, puts pressure on Harry to become her Knight. Which is what Mab is really after.
That first declarative by Mab, however, would seem absolute:  even if  she later gave ambivalent wiggle-room replies, Mab has stated affirmatively that she would recruit Thomas.

Mab can be wrong -- mistaken -- but she cannot lie.

11
DF Spoilers / Re: Elaine is the wizard the White Council should really be afraid of.
« on: November 21, 2024, 10:57:57 PM »
Quote from: Mira on November 10, 2024, 10:39:26 PM
What are you suggesting? ...
Mainly, I'm refuting the idea that Elaine's Nemfected-or-Not status is something a soulgaze (or any other magical inspection really) is likely to detect.

12
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry's full name
« on: November 21, 2024, 10:40:09 PM »
Quote from: Mira on November 21, 2024, 12:29:31 PM
I have to go back and read, but I seem to remember he was able to "summon" Mother Winter because he did use one of her names  or titles that isn't either widely used or known.  She wasn't very happy about it and that's when Mother Summer explained that since Mother Winter lost her walking stick getting around was very painful for her ...

I'm going to allege here that MW came not because she had to, but because she wanted  to.  Harry used several of the Names that apply to her; none of them really central; but   all of them relevant and... interesting... to her.

I don't think the "pain" mattered to her in the slightest:  she "wasn't happy" because "happy" is the kind of the antithesis of Mother Winter's personality.

Quote from: Mira on November 21, 2024, 12:29:31 PM
... If I remember correctly that was in Proven Guilty and the reason that time was because Lea was on ice taking the cure for Nemesis infestation ...
It was Dead Beat, not PG; but yes, we presume Lea was a sidhecicle at the time.

The point, however, is that Harry summoned the Leanansidhe and got Queen Mab instead.

So the "rules of summoning" are (to cross some streams) really more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules; welcome to the writings of Jim Butcher (who delights in misleading the fans).

(I do suspect the rules are far stricter and more literal around malevolent entities like Outsiders, and the Fallen)

Quote from: Mira on November 21, 2024, 12:29:31 PM
... Yeah, but Harry wanted Toot, and Toot came ...

My point here is that even with Toot -- one of the very-weakest of all the entities he "summons" -- Harry isn't "summoning" him, in the sense of "making him" come.

Harry is luring them, one and all; attracting their attention & giving a sense of something they want, something they're interested in.

13
DF Spoilers / Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« on: November 21, 2024, 09:59:07 PM »
Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on November 21, 2024, 11:03:00 AM
Went to 82% today.  So, it looks like Jim is back in the saddle.  Hopefully we'll see some steady progress over the next week.
Dunno, every week seems kind of... over-frequent?
Before December, is my hope.

But, of course, we here in the USA have our National Turkey Sacrifice happening shortly, and I've no idea what Jim might be doing in that regard; it's entirely-possible that he's got travel&party&c plans that preclude "steady progress."

14
DF Spoilers / Re: Elaine is the wizard the White Council should really be afraid of.
« on: November 21, 2024, 09:44:56 PM »
Quote from: Mira on November 21, 2024, 04:53:16 PM
... At any rate, even if he saw Nemesis or the taint of an Outsider in her, he wouldn't have known what he was seeing.  He may know now, but we have never heard Harry ever talk about what he saw in his soul gaze with Elaine.  He has mentioned before what he has seen in other soul gazes, but never what he saw in the one he had with Elaine.

Harry has also mentioned that the Soulgaze (like other Wizards' Sight phenomena) are "do not dim with time" experiences.  So Harry still remembers (with 100% clarity) the teenaged soulgaze with Elaine, and can consult it with his modern perspective.

If Outsider-traces were there -- and detectible -- modern-day Harry would know.

OTOH, you're right that it'd be really interesting to know exactly what he did see, when he soulgazed Elaine!

15
DF Spoilers / Re: Elaine is the wizard the White Council should really be afraid of.
« on: November 21, 2024, 03:18:29 AM »
Quote from: LordDresden2 on November 04, 2024, 03:11:50 AM
...  Harry and Elaine have soulgazed.  Unless she was nemfected afterward, I'd think it would have shown up.

I'm pretty sure they soulgazed right around the time they became lovers.
Plenty of romantic "gazing into one  anothers' eyes"moments...  Pretty darned hard to avoid, in fact!

My pick for when she got Nemfected would be at the very end; Elaine said Justin "enthralled" her, but I suspect either that the "enthrallment" was intentionally exposing her to Nemfection, or that in the dazed state just after Harry killed(?) Justin -- when we already know HWWB was in the field -- she got Nemfected as a vector into Summer.

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