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DF Spoilers / Re: Is Harry OP? [Battle Ground Spoilers]
« on: October 01, 2020, 07:39:00 PM »
But does anyone really know he has or has access to ALL of that, other than the readers? and himself, of course.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Battle Ground spoilers: Harry’s pairing. What do you think?
« on: October 01, 2020, 07:29:09 PM »Quote from: Rigil Kent
Yeah, I'm definitely in the "ewwwwww" camp. I see your point regarding time passing and all that, but it just icks me out. YMMV.
Honestly, I was never in the 'ewww' camp. But I get the perspective that comes from. but as I said, time can change things between people, so can having to face those horrors they are facing. Soemtimes you get to a point you can only relate and open up with someone who has tread those same dark paths. Winter is definitely a dark path.
But it also depends on how it is all handled too. To be honest and blunt, I'm not sure Butcher would handle it very well anyway...he doesn't tend to write relationships very well from anything of his I have read.
Quote from: Griffyn612
One thing I came away from PT thinking was that Butcher had changed his tune on Lara. He seemed to be going out of his way to make her more appealing to Harry, as well as make her his equal in some respects. I was baffled at how weak she was at the end of PT, and now I'm baffled that she was that strong at the start of BG after being that weak at the end of PT. I mean, I think her power levels in BG were appropriate, but still...
Anyway, she seems to be genuinely Interested in Harry. I wouldn't call it True Love or anything like that, but I think she respects him and his power and she likes the way he looks. But I'm not sure Lara even asked Mab to date Harry. She might not have been thinking of Harry at all. Mab said Lara "desired a binding alliance with Winter." Lara is modern-thinking enough to not necessarily think that a marriage is the way to accomplish that. And it wouldn't surprise me if we end up seeing her express that in a later book, where she admits that she's not opposed to the idea out of hand, but that it wasn't her intention. It'd go a long ways to making Harry more accepting of her role in the arrangement.
Right, but you notice the tension between Lara and Molly? and Mab did specifically mention 'courting' her Knight. That makes me think she mentioned Harry specifically. But maybe she didn't. Maybe that is just how Mab interpreted things...with Mab it's difficult to know.
I think your right though, I think Butcher has changed his mind about Lara. I'm not opposed to their match or marriage. I honestly think that Harry needs a staunch ally with a lot of money and some political power. I think that for him to survive and thrive without the WC behind him, he's going to need someone like Lara for this phase in his life.
He's got his lab back, but now he needs money so he can repair and re-stock it. It's in Lara's best interest for him to be at his magical best. It's not a love thing, but it's a useful thing for sure and that is what a lot of marriages in medieval times were made for.
The truth of the matter is, Mab has Harry's back. She downplays it and Harry isn't aware of it, but you can see that through her words and actions. She cuts Harry a lot of slack she'd never cut anyone else, not only because he is useful to her and his plans, but because she is actually fond of him....and that can count for a lot. You can see it in small actions, like when she essentially whispers and warns him to not be showing any weakness. She cares as much as a being like her can really care....so both on a personal and a "professional" level.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Battle Ground spoilers: Harry’s pairing. What do you think?
« on: October 01, 2020, 06:00:29 PM »
Lara is actually one of my favorite monsters too and one I like to see Harry frenemies with.
For her to ask permission to court him (not marry specifically, that was Mab) is interesting to me. Lara does things for the White Court and for her power base and this would be that kind of arrangement for sure.
But we still don't see the whole picture here.
and I still ultimately hope to see Harry/Molly - I get that he knew her as a kid and right now that's gross, but time passes and they are long-lived as wizards...time changes things, not to mention battling unspeakable things side by side together.
For her to ask permission to court him (not marry specifically, that was Mab) is interesting to me. Lara does things for the White Court and for her power base and this would be that kind of arrangement for sure.
But we still don't see the whole picture here.
and I still ultimately hope to see Harry/Molly - I get that he knew her as a kid and right now that's gross, but time passes and they are long-lived as wizards...time changes things, not to mention battling unspeakable things side by side together.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« on: October 01, 2020, 05:51:56 PM »
it's also worth noting - that as the books go on, Mab is opening up to Harry more. We are getting more and more small bits of her being "a person" as opposed to being the Queen of Air and Darkness. Look at the Christmas story at the end of BG (where, I might add again...no mention of Mister. I'm a little miffed on that point).
She's really made herself more vulnerable to Harry...likely more than to anyone in a long time I imagine. Obviously, she still has to be "Queen" to his "Knight" but, often in books you have royalty becoming friends with a trusted guard or some-such. The scale is just bigger here.
She's really made herself more vulnerable to Harry...likely more than to anyone in a long time I imagine. Obviously, she still has to be "Queen" to his "Knight" but, often in books you have royalty becoming friends with a trusted guard or some-such. The scale is just bigger here.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Did Mab break her word to Harry in Battle Ground?
« on: October 01, 2020, 01:52:53 PM »
That's actually a good point.
Plus, I wonder if the order of a dead queen is still binding...
and it could also have been more of a dire warning than an actual order. By ordering it, Mab is putting it in Harry's head and knows that he is going to look into the reason for her order.
Plus, I wonder if the order of a dead queen is still binding...
and it could also have been more of a dire warning than an actual order. By ordering it, Mab is putting it in Harry's head and knows that he is going to look into the reason for her order.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Did Mab break her word to Harry in Battle Ground?
« on: October 01, 2020, 03:28:27 AM »
yeah but a contract also requires a "meeting of the minds" in order to be consider valid, e.g. Mab knew exactly what he meant, his intent and went with it anyway.
Still, we're not talking Magical Law...and Fae are masters at twisting it all to suit them.
But in any event, Mab knows that Harry is his own person and he will not go quietly into the night if she gives him an order like that. Still, for her to tell him to do it, you know there are some possibly dire consequences...
But lets hope by the end of things, Harry can untangle himself and Molly out of Winter's grasp.
Still, we're not talking Magical Law...and Fae are masters at twisting it all to suit them.
But in any event, Mab knows that Harry is his own person and he will not go quietly into the night if she gives him an order like that. Still, for her to tell him to do it, you know there are some possibly dire consequences...
But lets hope by the end of things, Harry can untangle himself and Molly out of Winter's grasp.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Did Mab break her word to Harry in Battle Ground?
« on: October 01, 2020, 02:07:32 AM »
in my PDF it's
Changes - pg 446
"...And you give me your word you will never command me to lift my hand against those I love."
Thougn Mab never expressly agreed to it. But could be considered part of the agreement since it was noted as a condition of his acceptance.
It's all kinda murky with Fae.
Changes - pg 446
"...And you give me your word you will never command me to lift my hand against those I love."
Thougn Mab never expressly agreed to it. But could be considered part of the agreement since it was noted as a condition of his acceptance.
It's all kinda murky with Fae.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Duopoly one if the worst “books” in the series-SPOILERS
« on: September 30, 2020, 05:54:22 PM »
He was a normal person who was basically confronted with the Supernatural and just cracked up. That doesn't make it any better, but some people just can't handle anything out of "normal"
Cops are an interesting breed too. Some of them are very steeped in the "nitty gritty" I work with cops and I'm in IT and tech and you'd think some of the things I show them or talk to them about IS magic and it's incomprehensible to them. Some are adaptable and just fine, but others - are not.
Unfortunately we've seen this scene played out before in plenty of TV shows and movies where the panicking person with the gun accidentally shoots someone important to the Hero. I saw that coming a mile away when the scene started - unfortunately predictable.
Cops are an interesting breed too. Some of them are very steeped in the "nitty gritty" I work with cops and I'm in IT and tech and you'd think some of the things I show them or talk to them about IS magic and it's incomprehensible to them. Some are adaptable and just fine, but others - are not.
Unfortunately we've seen this scene played out before in plenty of TV shows and movies where the panicking person with the gun accidentally shoots someone important to the Hero. I saw that coming a mile away when the scene started - unfortunately predictable.
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DF Spoilers / Re: What's the deal with the horrible communication skills?
« on: September 30, 2020, 05:14:47 PM »
Yeah, I'm with you 100%
I don't get why he didn't say ANYTHING at all.
But people also seem to be irrational towards him too.
I'm like - you know, you could get this resolved with a 30 minute conversation over a cup of coffee...
Drama for Drama's Sake...
I don't get why he didn't say ANYTHING at all.
But people also seem to be irrational towards him too.
I'm like - you know, you could get this resolved with a 30 minute conversation over a cup of coffee...
Drama for Drama's Sake...
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DF Spoilers / Re: Duopoly one if the worst “books” in the series-SPOILERS
« on: September 30, 2020, 04:58:19 PM »
aww you edited it. That's no fun 
and I think he writes a pretty good balance of description/action/dialogue.
I have to admit, I teared up a bit for Murphy.
I got angry and threw the book against the wall when Susan got bitten. I left it there for a month before I picked it up and finished it.
So, I think he does a good job overall.
Not all of his books lately have had great editing, but I don't really fault him for that.
and I think he writes a pretty good balance of description/action/dialogue.
I have to admit, I teared up a bit for Murphy.
I got angry and threw the book against the wall when Susan got bitten. I left it there for a month before I picked it up and finished it.
So, I think he does a good job overall.
Not all of his books lately have had great editing, but I don't really fault him for that.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Duopoly one if the worst “books” in the series-SPOILERS
« on: September 30, 2020, 04:38:06 PM »
I just miss some of the street level stuff he did.
Books have grown beyond that and that's okay too. I enjoyed the big battle.
now wait, are we talking less battle or les battles?
Because...you know...(just kidding)
Books have grown beyond that and that's okay too. I enjoyed the big battle.
now wait, are we talking less battle or les battles?
Because...you know...(just kidding)
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DF Spoilers / Re: Duopoly one if the worst “books” in the series-SPOILERS
« on: September 30, 2020, 04:24:47 PM »Quote
I think that about sums it up. Harry outgrew being a P.I. though for my part I miss that, it is what set the Dresden Files apart from your run of the mill fantasy. Jim said no power ups for Murphy, at the beginning of the series I believe it says she is about five years older than Harry. So over time her physical talents were going to diminish once she hit forty-five, which she was about when she died. So had she lived her going out and kicking supernatural ass would became less and less plausible. Even the explanation in Battle Ground wasn't believable, she said that those on Mab's side didn't feel pain so she could ride a motorcycle and fight, but she didn't say her injuries were healed by Mab. There was more going on than simple pain that limited her movements etc. But back to being Harry's lover, that is sort of a come down for her as well in after a while it becomes boring.
I miss that aspect of the novels too (his PI stuff). I guess I missed where Jim said no power up's for Murphy, but that explains why she never got one (to me anyway). Yeah, she was going to dimish over time, so I'm with the Kurgan (Highlander) on that point: "It's better to burn out, than to fade away!".
And yeah, the whole ignoring pain while injured stretches some credibility, especially when you are injured in a way that limits you physically...but then again...MAGIC. Those people would all be paying a price for that though, maybe permanent injuries once they come down from that. Well at least those that lived.
And yeah, just being a love interest and demoted to occasional side character would be doing her a disservice. At least Lara won't have a problem keeping up, until Harry becomes an Immortal Star Lord or whatever.
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DF Spoilers / Re: What's happening in Peace Talks?
« on: September 30, 2020, 04:02:28 PM »
Rob -
You should really predict more stuff LOL
You should really predict more stuff LOL
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DF Spoilers / Re: Duopoly one if the worst “books” in the series-SPOILERS
« on: September 30, 2020, 03:45:41 PM »Quote
I was wondering the same thing at the time, Lara was never shy about feeding on "kine" before, especially if it were to save herself or Thomas. Or was afraid that Harry would stop helping her?
I think that last bit is probably the most on point. Lara knows harry well enough to know what he isn't going to allow if she wants his help.
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The idea that Harry was so tired and hurt he knew he couldn't think straight enough to be successful works about as well as anything. But following him after he went overboard, supposedly Alfred helped him ashore, and supposedly Harry gave him the Eye to keep safe in the armory or somewhere, Harry didn't want to know. Yet Harry was found suffering from severe hypothermia half in the water, by two of Lara's men allowed on the island to help Harry. None of that makes a whole lot of sense to me.
We must always remember, Harry is an unreliable narrator. We are obviously not getting the whole story.
And the entire ending after the battle was pretty rushed, I bet material was cut out of it. I find some missing chunks of information here and there where stuff obviously happened off-screen and we only see bits of it.
he might have needed to make it a mini-trilogy lol
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If Murphy had remained on the police force, she could eventually been promoted to police chief or something of that nature. Even as a detective, she could still assist Harry, keep her skills and still remain believable as a character.
I agree, though when I look back over her department tenure, it doesn't seem like she was really on the track to become a PC of a big department. That's very political and she was not super political. She could have remained a detective, but I think that for the most part, we've outgrown that bit of the story where that's really exceptionally useful. Harry isn't really a PI doing PI stuff with a supernatural twist anymore. He's dealing with gods, titans and legendary beings.
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DF Spoilers / Re: Duopoly one if the worst “books” in the series-SPOILERS
« on: September 30, 2020, 02:58:45 PM »Quote
I buy the blackmail thing, but at time, how would that help Justine and the baby? Only thing if somehow Thomas was convinced if the did this, the baby would be free of the Hunger or Justine would be protected from it.
It's a magical world and agreements can be binding in ways more than any legal contract. But usually the, "I'll let them live and leave you all alone" could be enough if it was truly binding. Though I am surprised Thomas never even ATTEMPTED to talk to Harry about it.
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I think it is pretty well established that to heal a WCvamp needs to feed if they are injured bad enough. Then the feeding is to the death, that was what Raith was after when he put Justine in bed with Thomas in Blood Rites when he was so badly hurt. That is what Shaggy did do him over and over again in Turn Coat, beat him up to the point of death, then feed him a young girl.
Yeah, that may be what the issue was...how would Thomas feel if he fed and killed someone. Still, a bit of a railroad with that in order to get Harry alone with Justine and "on the island" basically.
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But at the same time Alfred would have seen though Justine immediately, he had no trouble identifying what Thomas was or Lara. So while I think Trojan Horse is what Nemesis was going for, Harry figured it out before they got to the island. Still unanswered, can or cannot the island hold an Outsider? It can apparently hold everything else, but not an Outsider? Or is Harry so scared of them that he just didn't want to risk it? For that matter, if it couldn't get past the defenses unless it tricked Harry and Alfred, then wouldn't a cell hold it?
Yeah, but just because Alfred saw through it doesn't mean or change the fact Harry invited it....it's not like Harry hasn't invited others to the island...vampires, knights, etc. Alfred might expect Harry to have unusual guests at this point
lolI suspect it could hold an Outsider. If it can handle gods and titans and things even more powerful, it could likely hold the Outsider. But it was obvious that Nemesis wanted on the island and so, as unprepared as Harry was, he didn't want it there. Who knows what tricks it has? To jail something Alfred has to catch it and what if he couldn't before it managed to do some kind of big damage or sabotage something important? Alfred isn't all powerful and jailing something isn't always quick, easy and cut and dry. As exhausted, wounded, beaten down and on empty as Harry was, I think he chose to confront the problem another day. But lots of unanswered questions with regards to it.
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I still think it comes down to Jim not having a decent role for Murphy once he kicked her off the police force.
Maybe. Though Murphy was getting further and further out of her weight class as the books went along and power levels increased. Also, I remember something Butcher was saying about Susan too - where you can't keep a hero hooked up and happy/content in noir settings (though this has kind of moved on from being noir and is now more like urban high fantasy). Though I'm not sure any marriage to Laura could ever really be 'happy/content'. Maybe more like the movie "Mr & Mrs. Smith"
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It is something that came totally out of left field as far as I am concerned. I cannot see how it is going to work, I mean I cannot see Harry allowing Lara to feed off of him during sex no matter how pleasurable.. And I cannot see Lara not feeding off of him, nor can she touch him as long as he has no other sexual partners because he is still protected by his and Murphy's true love.
On some further thought, I think Molly knew about it beforehand. We weren't clued in though. And see my Mr. & Mrs. Smith comment above lol. I'm right there with you. Makes me wonder why Laura wanted to 'court' Dresden in the first place, knowing his love for Murphy. The marriage thing was all Mab though. I suspect the whole 'we need to be united and have staunch allies' is not the whole truth, but who knows for sure?
Maybe it is, one thing not touched on - consider the losses the Winter Court took, as well as the White Court too. They seemed to take the brunt of things. Everyone is going to be licking their wounds and suffer a loss of manpower. You know whose not? Nemesis and the being throwing themselves against the Outer Gates.
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