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Messages - CrispyXIV

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DFRPG / Re: Shutting down a spell caster
« on: January 19, 2013, 01:59:12 PM »
But that's the thing: It's an attack spell and built as such, so if your players are doing it, they don't have to make it Aspect based at all. No spell to kill someone needs to be. A spell actually built just to inflict a single Aspect will never be that big.

Right.

So unless I'm missing something, the advantage to the Aspect based spell would be that it can be compelled until either it works, or someone does something to remove it (IE, Shirou jumping in front of Nicodemus' curse), correct?  The disadvantage being that it can be dodged/manipulated like an Aspect until then... via Fate points.

An attack, you just have to Defend.

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DFRPG / Re: Shutting down a spell caster
« on: January 18, 2013, 09:56:51 PM »
Point is, if the players go to the effort of it, and it works, then it should...well, work.

Eh, to me, it did work; you forced the bad guy to spend some of his fixed resources to overcome an obstacle.  Depending on the badguy, that's more serious a loss than some consequences.  Thats victory... especially if you have a parties worth of Fate points, and he has the one or two he got Conceding out of an earlier conflict, or by accepting a painful compel.

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Who said effortless? I've said putting the spell together is plenty of time and effort and resources. If the players put in that time and effort and spend the resources, then that victory is the payoff--especially if the villain couldn't be defeated otherwise. Such a spell might very well be an entire scenario's worth of work.

If the scenario is about putting together a 'bad guy defeating spell', then he shouldn't buy out of it if thats what makes the story work :) Of course, thats kindof harsh if it results in him being helpless as the party stomps him to death afterwards, as he lies there.

Honestly, if it were me, and the plot allowed for this sort of spell to make things work... I think the villain should Concede immediately, somehow.  He's already lost if his primary power is sealed, and there's really no reason to run a conflict at that point.  So I guess that makes this sort of thing more of a 'Challenge' per the book, and less of a Conflict to begin with, right?

And again, at the end of the day... the players know what Fate can be spent on.  Its not like they're doing this all blind, and if they invest in going with the 'Tag for Effect' route, they should consider the possibility that the badguy will do what they would, and simply buy out of it.

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DFRPG / Re: Shutting down a spell caster
« on: January 18, 2013, 09:23:45 PM »
So you think it's fair if the PCs spend a significant amount of time setting up the ritual--potentially spending their own resources and fate points--to curb an extremely significant advantage their opponent has on them, and the opponent then spends one fate point to undo all of that hard work, and gets to use all of his power at full capacity for the entire battle?

I have a problem seeing that as anything besides an utter waste of resources on the part of the PCs.

Ever heard anyone mention eggs and baskets?  Throwing everything into one plan that the players knew could fail if the badguy has the same capabilities (Fate points) they do was not a great plan in the first place, IMO.  They're probably better off using their knowledge to set scene aspects in place, do research on their foe (assessments), etc, instead of something that they themselves could just dismiss via spending a fate point.  If the villain can't do that... he's kindof non-threatening IMO.

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What's the narrative justification for the spell simply failing, despite the PCs spending all their time and effort on making sure it's cast correctly? How is it fair for the PCs to then get stomped because their preparations just went all right out the window?

Forensics guys got it wrong, it wasn't his hair; the symbolic link is no good.  Or something similar for narrative justification.

I'm just saying, there's a reason in Grave Peril that Harry's lockdown spell against Kravos happens offscreen, before the plot; effortless victory is boring, for the players or otherwise.

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DFRPG / Re: Shutting down a spell caster
« on: January 18, 2013, 09:09:57 PM »
I see Fate Points as a means of player agency primarily. The rulebook even states that antagonists with a fate point pool are out of the ordinary, and particularly dangerous, implying that your average badguy just doesn't get fate points.

Sure.  Thats actually, I believe, how no-name NPC's work per RAW.  And the Big Bad having his own Fate Points... just like the PC's... actually lends a lot toward them being significant.  He's the guy who has all the same tricks the PC's do.  Except that being -7 total Refresh means that any Fate Point he has, he suffered for.

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Setting up a thaumaturgic ritual to shut someone down is not "one turn." It's potentially several sessions of set up and work, as well as however many turns it takes to cast.

Tell me, if you were a player, and you took the time and effort to set up a ritual to shut down a powerful wizard and give your own team a chance, wouldn't you feel cheated if it succeeded and the GM just goes, "Well, he has a fate point to spend, so it doesn't work. And now he's hitting you all with a Weapon:8 zone attack, roll to dodge."?

Sure that sucks, but its not like it doesn't work both ways, or he used some super secret 'NPC only' ability or heavens forbid GM Fiat to do it... he did the same thing anyone with Fate can; bought out of a compel.  Its still worth the action the PC's took, and its not like no-one told them the bad-guy had that as an option to begin with.

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DFRPG / Re: Shutting down a spell caster
« on: January 18, 2013, 06:55:27 PM »
I sure as hell do. Why wouldn't you? I mean, it's one to two at most for most enemies, so it's not like it's that hard...

Heck, even if doing the pool method (which seems a reasonable alternative), this'd remove an FP from the pool.

I agree.  I've only run a couple sessions, but managing Fate Points for NPC's seems hugely important, and exactly the sort of thing that should be done legitly.  A 0 refresh baddy finds them HUGELY important (and losing one would be equally huge), since had to have a significant setback to get one in the first place.  I wouldn't feel bad at all if the Big Bad dropped one buying out of a bad Compel, and I'd hope my PC's would realise exactly how big of a setback that is for him.

'Cheating' or fudging Fate Point totals would seem really... unpleasant in this system.  As the GM, I already have Compels and such as tools, playing loose with Fate Points seems underhanded somehow.

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DFRPG / Re: A question about thaumaturgy complexities
« on: January 16, 2013, 03:01:53 PM »
Do person-centered wards work? If so, is the complexity equal to the block strength?

This seems like a very specific type of Spirit based Block to me.  Maybe with low special effects, and lots of effort put into extra duration.

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DFRPG / Re: Incite Emotion questions
« on: January 15, 2013, 02:23:51 PM »
Well, it's a -1 ability that gives a new skill trapping (or, really, two since it can Maneuver or Block) and a +2 to using it (both of them really). Expecting it to be good in physical combat, too, might be a bit much. At Range is what makes it a combat power, IMO.

Wait... its not business as usual to allow Deceit and Intimidate for maneuevers or blocks in combat anyway?

Deceit for feinting (Thrown Off Balance) or distractions (Look Over There!) or confusion (I'm Really an Undercover Cop!) in combat all seemed pretty intuitive, as did Intimidate for intimidation (Shaken, Bigger Than He Looked, This Is The Part Where You Run Away) stuff, too...

...in which case Incite Emotions in these situations is just giving a +2 to one (said two previously, but forgot Incite only gives one emotion to start) skills under very specific situations (Maneuevers and Blocks, at Touch Range, versus things who care about emotions).  Thats better than a stunt (or at least, with its other additions, more broad), but so are most powers (and this one not by much).

Or am I running that wrong then?

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DFRPG / Re: Incite Emotion questions
« on: January 15, 2013, 02:06:45 PM »
1) In combat, yes, you need to roll Fists to touch them. In a social situation (where they're supposed to be better anyway) it's usually more doable, I mean, who doesn't shake hands?

Is that implied somewhere specific?  I've got a guy using it in the game I just started, and looking for relevant rules came up only with the note under Emotional Vampire that you can Feed and use Incite Emotions with the same roll (and action).

I also noted that DFRPG is big on 'never roll more than one action a turn', which seemed to explain the above, plus requiring multiple actions to slap the big emotion-whammy (and do a basic maneuver or Block) on someone in combat seems... really, really awful as an ability.

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DFRPG / Re: The foul works of Annuvin, servants of Arawn
« on: January 11, 2013, 06:03:43 PM »
Death Pact is rather odd. How is it depicted in the series? Because just letting it give a bonus to rolls would probably work better.

A group of Huntsmen are bonded together; as they're killed, the remaining ones becomes stronger and more dangerous... in theory, in direct proportion to the number of them that have fallen.  Honestly, I kindof like the idea of them getting to pass their Fate Points off to their bonded brethren when they fall.

In the end, they still end up just being mooks in the books though, from what I can remember.  Its been a long time, though :)

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DFRPG / Re: Explaining Thaumaturgy
« on: January 11, 2013, 05:17:13 PM »
I'll pass those on to my players, but I'm also looking for a quicker and simpler way to explain it than having them read several in-depth blog posts.

I'm a new DFRPG GM myself, but the one specifically about Thaumaturgy, this one http://www.rickneal.ca/?p=632#1thaum seems useful :)

Its not terribly short, but honestly... Thaumaturgy is kindof confusing and very broad if you try and be short from what I am understanding.

What is it?  Magic.

What can it do?  Anything.

How do I do it?  You tell me.

Thats Thaumaturgy. 

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Well, assuming that the Blackstaff is hers, WoJ says that she wants it back, and that it was stolen.

Either the White Council tricked her into giving it up, which she regrets, or it is more useful to her in McCoy's hands.  IMO, there's no way that she doesn't know who has it.

It could be that retrieving it from its current holder would be difficult, if not impossible; doesn't Eb Summon it in Changes, from apparently nowhere?

Maybe its inaccessible when not in use, which would mean it would have to be voluntarily returned by its current holder?

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