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Messages - FirstSelector

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Actually, that brings up a really good point - maybe Mother Winter didn't lose her walking stick in the sense of it was taken, but lost it as in lost a hand of poker?

Imagine if, way in the past, Nemesis decides to start infecting people as a new tactic.  The Fae have to call in a mortal to combat the threat, so Merlin shows up and bargains with Winter.  He builds them a set of magical gates and gets a guardian to go with them (I suspect it might have been Rashid), but in return (they are Fae, after all) he gets Mother Winter's stick and perhaps a few other things.

EDIT:  This explains why, with all of her power, Mother Winter is prevented from retrieving the Blackstaff.  As a Fae, she can't go back on a deal.  I think this is the only reasonable way that someone could have prevented Mother Winter from immediately taking it back.  What it is worth in trade, however, is not as clearly set.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: The identity of the Mothers [CD spoilers]
« on: November 28, 2012, 10:23:22 AM »
I like this idea.  I will admit that bringing up the three goddesses idea seemed to distract from my original idea a bit (tying in the Mothers to the Fates), but if instead the three Fates are some combination of traits from each of the various Queens (Mother Winter's malice, Titania's motheriness, and the Ladies' youthfulness), that would clear up the issue.

I also admit that I saw Mother Summer and Winter interacting a bit like Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg (from Discworld) in my head.

However, that begs the question of how the Mothers came to be in the first place.  We know Mab was mortal once and a WoJ suggests she got her power via an ascension ritual.  But Mother Winter has never stepped down (while Mother Summer did, which is another interesting topic in and of itself), so Mother Winter must have either existed before and took up a new role or was mortal herself.

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Mother Winter isn't totally incapable of leaving her cottage without her stick, by the way.

Quote from: Summer Knight Ch 34
She [Mab] gestured, and the thorns parted. Maeve stood there in her white armor, and Mother Winter stood behind her, all shrouded in black cloth. Before them on the ground knelt Lloyd Slate, broken, obviously in pain, his hands manacled to a collar around his throat, the whole made of something that looked like cloudy ice.

The balance does exist, just not in the way we always assumed.  Summer acts to prevent Winter from interfering too much with the rest of the world, and Winter prevents Summer from overdoing it.  I don't think Mab could crush Summer "anytime she wants," because that would go against her nature as the guardian of the Gates.

Probably the only person with enough power to steal anything from Mother Winter would have to either be Mother Summer (assuming they are not the same entity) or an archangel.  I don't think it is likely that a direct play by the Outsiders would be likely, as the Mothers are too knowledgeable to be tricked.  I doubt it was a dragon (those are on par with Mab, not the Mothers), as I doubt it was a mortal.

If it was stolen, perhaps it was concealed from her in some way (though that would take absurd power).  If not, and she willingly let the White Council have it, there is almost certainly a reason.  The Fae appear to depend on the ability of the Gatekeeper to sniff out infection, and perhaps they leverage the abilities of the Blackstaff in some other way.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: The identity of the Mothers [CD spoilers]
« on: November 28, 2012, 01:17:00 AM »
I don't disagree that they may have other, older names - we certainly have evidence that several mythological entities may in fact be different facets of the same being.  In fact, I think it is very likely that they have additional "masks," as it were.

Also, to be clear, this shouldn't suggest that the Summer Lady is on the same power level as the Mothers.  In retrospect, the third Fate would likely have to be at equivalent power.  There is, of course, the option that the Maiden hasn't been on screen yet.

The idea that Harry could accidentally unmake Mother Winter by using the wrong name would be totally reasonable, but I felt that in connection with Mother Summer's other comments I figured she was more worried about him knowing their old name.

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DF Reference Collection / The identity of the Mothers [CD spoilers]
« on: November 28, 2012, 01:04:26 AM »
This may have been kicked around before, but I haven't been able to find a similar theory.  My apologies if so.

We meet the Mothers for the second time in Cold Days, but in a rather unique way.  Harry attempts to summon Mother Winter... and it works.  His summoning reveals, I think, a very important gap in our knowledge.

Premise:
The Mothers, along with a heretofore unknown entity, are the Fates.

Background:
The Fates are three women that appear in various mythologies who control the destinies of mortals.  I will use the Greek names for concreteness.  There is Clotho, the spinner of the thread of life, Lachesis, who measured the length, and Atropos, who cut it with her shears.

Another rather prevalent mythos surrounding thee women goddesses is the idea of the Mother, the Maiden, and the Crone.  One can map the three Fates onto the three goddesses easily.

In most of these mythos, the Fates are absurdly powerful, up to deciding on the fates of the Gods themselves.

Claim:
Mother Winter is the Atropos, the Crone; Mother Summer is Lachesis, the Mother; we have yet to identify the Maiden, Clotho.

Supporting evidence:
Perhaps the most obvious evidence is that Harry attempts to summon Mother Winter using the Greek and Norse names for Atropos.

Quote from: Cold Days Ch 31
“I am Harry Dresden, the Winter Knight, and I needs must speak with thee! Athropos! Skuld! Mother Winter, I summon thee!

Quote from: Cold Days Ch 32
Mother Winter’s rocker creaked, though it didn’t really seem to move. “He knew certain names. He was not wholly stupid in choosing them, or wholly wrong in using them.”

While on the subject of names, it is implied twice that there is a name that references both Mother Summer and Winter together.  I suggest that it would be the name of the Fates, which is Moirai in Greek.

Quote from: Cold Days Ch 32
Mother Summer’s bright green eyes narrowed. “Did he . . . ?”
“No,” croaked Mother Winter. “Not that one."

Quote from: Cold Days Ch 33
Mother Summer’s smile appeared for a moment, dazzling me, and then was gone again. “It was not an imbecilic guess,” she said. “And, yes, she has been known by such names before. But you’ve only guessed the name of one of her masks—not our most powerful name.”

Additional evidence is provided by looking at the personalities of Mother Summer and Mother Winter.  Mother Winter is old (so old she can barely walk), does not suffer fools, and is generally not the nicest Fae around.  She is perpetually shrouded in her cloak and has an absolutely evil cackle.  She also has the requisite shears:

Quote from: Summer Knight Ch 26
Mother Winter reached down with her withered hands, and took up a pair of rusted shears. She cut the trailing threads and passed me the cloth.

Mother Summer, on the other hand, is much more matronly and kind.  She bustles around their cottage and tends the house.  She actually tries to put Harry at ease and is generally pleasant.

Speculation:
If we accept that Mothers Winter and Summer have a corresponding Maiden, then we must speculate on who that would be.  My best guess at the moment is that the role of the Maiden is played by the Summer Lady.  It is not known what true purpose the Ladies' power fulfills, or at least it hasn't been revealed.

Quote from: Cold Days Ch 53
“And her duties?” I asked. “What is the purpose of the Winter Lady?”
“That is for her to know,” Mab said.

Given that Clotho is associated with life and giving birth, it seems more reasonable that the Summer Lady would serve in this role rather than the Winter Lady.  It would also fit with the "youngness" of the Summer Lady, and it is not unreasonable to draw the connection between the Lady and Mother.

Conclusion:
I think that Mother Summer and Winter are two of the three Fates, which necessitates identifying the third Fate, the Maiden.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: Suggest Topics Here!
« on: July 11, 2012, 07:01:33 AM »
While it is not the most fleshed-out theory, I think the prospect that Maggie LeFay founded the Black Council is on to a really solid idea.

Ms. Duck's "Get out of Dead free" theory neatly ties up the rather confusing events in and between Small Favors and Ghost Story.

The PG Compendium has a bunch of useful theories.

Neurovore's claim that the Scarecrow in Arctis Tor was backed by Outsiders prompted Jim to ask if he was a CIA analyst.

knnn had some very interesting things to say about Small Favors, and really digs into understanding the events of that book.

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