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Messages - Mira

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1
Mainly, I'm refuting the idea that Elaine's Nemfected-or-Not status is something a soulgaze (or any other magical inspection really) is likely to detect.
Very possible, but one still has to know or have some idea of what they are looking at.  At the age that Harry and Elaine soul gazed, Harry would have no clue that he was looking at Outsider taint or Nemesis.  To your point, Eb soul gazed 16 year old Harry after the fight with HWWB and while Eb mentions seeing anger, he makes no mention of Harry being tainted by either an Outsider or Nemesis.  I think Eb would know that kind of taint if he saw it in a soul gaze.

2
That first declarative by Mab, however, would seem absolute:  even if  she later gave ambivalent wiggle-room replies, Mab has stated affirmatively that she would recruit Thomas.

Mab can be wrong -- mistaken -- but she cannot lie.

  Recruit isn't the same as making Thomas her Knight.  No, she isn't lying about trying to recruit him, but she can recruit all she wants knowing full well it cannot happen.. Is she lying? No.  However she also knows the kind of effect at statement would have on Harry..  That's why one shouldn't bargain with the Fae, Mab in particular.  She is yanking Harry's chain by using the word recruit, she can say that and not lie.. Her aim is to get Harry as her Knight, not Thomas.  In fact I doubt Mab is even interested in Thomas as her Knight, even if it were possible. but she wants Harry to think she is..

3
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry's full name
« on: Yesterday at 01:48:57 PM »
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I don't think the "pain" mattered to her in the slightest:  she "wasn't happy" because "happy" is the kind of the antithesis of Mother Winter's personality.

So you think Mother Summer wasn't telling Harry the truth or exaggerating? Can the Mothers lie or are they under the same constraint as the rest of the Fae?

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My point here is that even with Toot -- one of the very-weakest of all the entities he "summons" -- Harry isn't "summoning" him, in the sense of "making him" come.

Harry is luring them, one and all; attracting their attention & giving a sense of something they want, something they're interested in.

Semantics, calling, summoning, making them come, call it what you will, there is a ritual that is performed and the being called comes.
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It was Dead Beat, not PG; but yes, we presume Lea was a sidhecicle at the time.

The point, however, is that Harry summoned the Leanansidhe and got Queen Mab instead.

So the "rules of summoning" are (to cross some streams) really more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules; welcome to the writings of Jim Butcher (who delights in misleading the fans).

I may have not made myself clear, in Dead Beat Harry summons Lea, but gets Mab instead which surprises him.  Because he was specific about whom he was summoning, Lea... Mab has an explanation, page 198-199 Dead Beat..
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"Disturb me?  Hardly.  I am here only to fulfill the duties I have been obliged to take upon myself.  It is no fault of thine that this summons reached my ears.
I straightened up slowly and avoided her eyes.  "I had expected my godmother to come."
Mab smiled.  Her teeth were small white and perfect, her canines delicately sharp.  "Alas.  The Leanansidhe is tied up at the moment."
On the next page Mab goes on to say that something is not right with Lea, that she is challenging her authority etc.. Harry asks her what she has done to Lea?
199 Dead Beat;
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"She is bound," Mab said.  "She is in some discomfort.  But she is in no danger.  Once she acknowledges who rules Winter, she will be restored to her station.  I can ill afford the loss of so potent a vassal."

So the summons wasn't random as in calling up Lea and getting Mab instead.  Mab clearly states that she came instead of Lea because Lea couldn't come, not because Harry summoned Lea and Mab felt like coming instead.  And yes, in Proven Guilty we find Lea tied up or encased more accurately in ice taking the cure for Nemesis infestation.  Clearly that was what Mab was telling Harry when she said that Lea was bound, in some discomfort, but going to be fine, hopefully.


4
I'm pretty sure they soulgazed right around the time they became lovers.
Plenty of romantic "gazing into one  anothers' eyes"moments...  Pretty darned hard to avoid, in fact!

My pick for when she got Nemfected would be at the very end; Elaine said Justin "enthralled" her, but I suspect either that the "enthrallment" was intentionally exposing her to Nemfection, or that in the dazed state just after Harry killed(?) Justin -- when we already know HWWB was in the field -- she got Nemfected as a vector into Summer.

You could be right, but then again, depending on how early they became lovers, could have been as early as thirteen or fourteen years of age.  Remember when Harry fought HWWB he had just turned sixteen, and had no clue as to what was attacking him.. Or Harry and Elaine soul gazed by accident unless specifically taught by Justin what a soul gaze was and how it worked.  If it was by accident it could have happened as early as the age of twelve.. At any rate, even if he saw Nemesis or the taint of an Outsider in her, he wouldn't have known what he was seeing.  He may know now, but we have never heard Harry ever talk about what he saw in his soul gaze with Elaine.  He has mentioned before what he has seen in other soul gazes, but never what he saw in the one he had with Elaine.

5
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry's full name
« on: November 21, 2024, 12:29:31 PM »
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I think the lure vs. summon depends on the power level and relationship of the two involved. Mother winter had to respond to Harry because his request was legitimate, but he could (obviously) not have forced her to show up except though obligations between Mother Winter and Winter Knight. But with a being closer to his own power level (like the Erlking apparently) he can force the being to show up if he knows the right names, ritual ingredients etc.


I have to go back and read, but I seem to remember he was able to "summon" Mother Winter because he did use one of her names  or titles that isn't either widely used or known.  She wasn't very happy about it and that's when Mother Summer explained that since Mother Winter lost her walking stick getting around was very painful for her. 
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Remember when he "summoned" Lea... and got Mab.
If I remember correctly that was in Proven Guilty and the reason that time was because Lea was on ice taking the cure for Nemesis infestation. 
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Remember when he "summoned" Uriel (as if).

Exactly, I remember Uriel smiling at Harry's mental circle, and muttered something like, "nice try."
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Remember the early books, where he "summoned" Toot ... which was, very explicitly, a lure-and-trap (despite how very weak a faerie Toot is).

Yeah, but Harry wanted Toot, and Toot came, the trapping happened once Toot showed up and couldn't resist the yummy bread that just happened to have a drop of Harry's blood on it, which trapped him.

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Harry has power to affect Mother Winter, he summoned her, Titania and Mab(willing summons) in Cold Days. What he does not have is the power to compel them to obey him.

That gets a bit tricky, he can bargain, and he can get some information from them..

6
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry's full name
« on: November 20, 2024, 03:56:33 PM »
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Of course if he had used his Name against Mother Winter she could randomly reconnect to Harry at inconvenient times, but Outsiders are Out, and speaking Harry's name on the Outside does nothing. Bit asymmetric, since names of outsiders do call them in to reality, but eh... that's my WAG anyway :)

The difference is Harry has no power over Mother Winter, but she has power or can have power over him, she can use his name against him.  In the case of Outsiders, because Harry is a star born, they have no power over him, so they cannot use his name against him.

7
DF Spoilers / Re: Politics and magic
« on: November 19, 2024, 01:55:59 PM »
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I think a deal can be done or has been done before just not in the way the politicians thought it was. In my mind, i can see Lara, Mab or what ever entity proming a young politician money and support in exchange for a few favours. Dude agrees thinking its a normal thing, usual political deal and what not, only for the entity to came back and collect only then for the guy to realise f..... it wasn't a human but who you gonna tell
Ps the White court or rather house wraith most likely has the most political connection. I mean political and non political sex scandals are an everyday occurrence.
On that note politicians have side pieces is not rare its the norm. On of the wraith sisters encounters a promising politician gets him /her addicted and boom

Well Marcone has been buying off the politicians for years because he is a mob boss.. Since he is now a Denarian on top of everything else it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.   


8
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry's full name
« on: November 18, 2024, 03:47:34 PM »
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2: Saying ones full name inside ones own head is not the same as saying it with ones own lips in the "real world"

Since Shark Face is really the Outsider, HE WHO WALKS BEFORE, the whole attack happened inside of Harry's head.. However Harry is a starborn ergo can wield power over Outsiders.  So Harry did just that, using the power of his own name and kicked some Outsider butt!

The Erking approved!
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"Well done, starborn!"

Starborn is the key, I think.  Since Harry is starborn and has power over Outsiders and Outsiders have no power over him, Harry can say his name, or in this case use his name without harm or fear of attack from using it.

9
Small Favor
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"Not having it could have gotten me killed, too," I said.  "And then you'd have wasted all that time you've put in trying to recruit me to be the next Winter Knight."

"Nonsense," Mab said.  "If you died, I would simply recruit your brother.  He would be well motivated to seek revenge upon your killers."
LordDresden2
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That's a direct statement on Mab's part.  Not an implication, or a suggestion, or a hint, it's a direct declarative statement.  Either she means it...or she uttered a falsehood, which as far as know she simply can't.

This is also from Small Favor  Page 402
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  "He isn't mortal," I said quietly. "I thought Knights had to be mortals,""He is in love," Grimalkin mrowled for Mab.  "That makes him mortal enough for me." She tilted her head.  Though I suppose I might make him an offer, while you yet live.  He would give much to hold his love again, would he not?"

You are correct that was a declarative statement by Mab.  However as you can see when Harry says Knights have to be mortal.  Mab hedges her bets, because Thomas is in love, that makes him mortal enough for her.  Then Mab hints that a bargain that could be made with Thomas so he could hold Justine.  This fogs up what the truth is just a bit, while Mab isn't exactly lying to Harry, she isn't exactly telling the truth either.. Though by her standards she is telling the truth, yes, she could recruit Thomas to be her Knight, that isn't the same as make Thomas her Knight.. However just the suggestion that she would recruit Thomas, puts pressure on Harry to become her Knight. Which is what Mab is really after.

10
I presume she went on to What Comes Next (as one does).

  But did she? Technically Susan didn't die, the thing she turned into was killed. Can Mab be soul gazed?  Yes, she is 99.99% Fae not, but what about that .01% that is still human?  What about the Mothers?  Supposedly they started out human eons ago, went the Lady,Queen,Mother route, did they simply lose their soul in the end?  Does that mean they are damned?  Or at least what was human to start with..

11
RCV's are entirely inhuman.

They "wear a flesh mask" but it's an ectoplasmic summoning; the real creature is a rubbery batlike thing.  They only act with self-control for their own advantage (incliding self-preservation, e.g. in the face of a superior foe).

WCV's are humans; they are humans harboring "hunger demons," but they are still human, and we know this with certainty:  wizards can soulgaze WCV's (but cannot soulgaze RCV's).

So what happened to Susan's soul once she completely changed? 

12
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She said he was mortal enough for her.  Mab cannot utter a knowing falsehood.  She didn't say he 'would be mortal', she said, 'is mortal'.  That means he is already, as is, mortal enough to qualify to be Winter Knight.

Does it?  Remember why you should never bargain with the Fae!  They never can be trusted! And what is the foundation of trust? Truth! In my opinion the point missed repeatedly by mortals is they fall for the Fae cannot lie line.  The Fae cannot lie, but that is by their own standard of what a lie is, not what a mortal's concept of a lie, is.. There are many shades to the truth, and the Fae are expert and using all of them.  Especially with Mab who can twist things to the point where no, she isn't knowingly lying, but nor is she telling the whole truth!
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Mab can't make Thomas pure human.  According to JB, yes, she could tear the parasite right out of him, but that wouldn't leave anything recognizable behind.  She can't surgically, neatly remove the parasite and just leave the man.

Nor if the image Harry saw of Thomas in the soul gaze without the Hunger Demon real, would she want that frail human as her Knight.  I think not.  However unless there is a way to shut off the Hunger Demon, which Margaret may have learned that secret from Lea or Mab, the Demon would clash with the Winter Knight mantle.. In fact the Demon and the Mantle working together would make quite a monster in my opinion.  So thank you for making my point, Mab might not have been lying to Harry about that, but at the same time she has no intention of carrying out her threat of making Thomas her Knight. 

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That is a damned good question.  I've wondered it myself.  Is Molly Sidhe now?  How much free will does her mantle leave her?  We already know she can use cell phones now, but we lack data to determine much else.

Another question that follows whether or not the technobane can be gotten around, if the wizard knows how.  Listen's to Wind, keeps current medically, he has attended medical school, it's a given that that means he would be around state of the art medical electronic equipment, that he cannot have blow up any time he enters a hospital or laboratory.   Actually there are few things these days in our everyday life that doesn't contain computer chips of some kind.  Given what the average cell phone has become these days, Harry walking down the street should make more pants and purses blow up than when the Israelis did it to the terrorists.  Some things sound cool, but in reality don't make a whole lot of sense.. Like I could never get beyond Harry taking cold showers during the height of winter in Chicago because he couldn't have a water heater!

13
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Most White Court vampires are the offspring of a WCV and a mortal.  Half mortal is the norm for them.

Does it really matter though once the Hunger demon has taken over?

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She said she would.  Harry asked her what she would do if he had been killed, since he knew she wanted him as her knight.  She said point blank in response that she would offer it to Thomas.  Not that she would consider it or maybe, but that she would offer it to Thomas.  Straight declarative statement, and Mab always speaks the truth.

Does she?  Page 402 Small Favor
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"He isn't mortal," I said quietly. "I thought Knights had to be mortals,""He is in love," Grimalkin mrowled for Mab.  "That makes him mortal enough for me." She tilted her head.  Though I suppose I might make him an offer, while you yet live.  He would give much to hold his love again, would he not?"

Sounds to me like Mab is messing with Harry.  Knights have to be mortal, but Mab doesn't say Thomas is mortal, she says,""he is in love that makes him mortal enough for me."  She didn't say that made Thomas a mortal, but that it was enough.. Enough for what?  A bargain, she is hinting that she could make him a mortal if he'd agree to be her Knight.  But would she actually go through all that trouble? Or would Thomas want to become that very ordinary mortal with the weak eyes that Harry saw in the soul gaze?  Seriously, would that Thomas be able to control the Winter Knight mantle?  No, Mab was talking in Fae double speak.. Not lying, but not telling the truth either.

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She can use magic.  You don't have to have free will to use magic, but having free will is what causes magical techbane.  That's why Fae can use magic and also use smartphones and other electronics, no techbane.  But the combination of magic and free will screws up electronics and other technology

Does Molly still have her free will? 

14
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You have a free will problem.

Because if all of the monsters and half breeds don't have free will, then who or what is directing them? How do they come up with all these elaborate long-term plans? Sometimes people just make what we consider the evil choice just because that's their preference. Or are you saying that even mundane serial killers and sex offenders have lost their free will?

No, I am not, there is a difference between an ordinary garden variety vanilla murderer and a White Court Vampire murderer.  The first mostly acts upon his or her own impulses and emotions with the free will to chose.  Where as a White Court Vampire murderer is play host to a demon.  The demon calls the shots, the Hunger demon will always satisfy it's needs first.  It can be satisfied with nibbling if it's hunger is satisfied by that, but if the demon needs more, it will take more.   The demon needs to keep the host body strong, sexually attractive, and healthy so it can survive.. Ergo, it will compel the Host to do what is required whether the Host wants to do it or not.. Thus the Host has little or no free will, it has the illusion of it.

15
DF Spoilers / Re: Politics and magic
« on: November 11, 2024, 03:37:22 PM »
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One of Harry's worries, in fact, is that if the general public ever realized just how compromised every institution and group is by the supernatural, society would break down.  That was part of how Mavra was able to blackmail him back in the day.

I think it will become an increasing problem since Battleground.  However as Harry proved in Proven Guilty, he is very good at politics when he managed to save Molly when he went up against the Merlin.  He also made enemies in the process which is part of the reason why he was booted out of the White Council.  The ironic thing will be I think is as the vanilla public begin to ask more questions about just what did do a number on Chicago, Harry will be one of the few from the magical world who lives in the vanilla world and in my opinion has a better understanding of their fears than anyone from the White Council.

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