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Messages - Shamshiel

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DF Reference Collection / Re: [CD spoilers] Small Favor
« on: December 04, 2012, 04:01:02 AM »
Nemesis's power to influence people is limited. It can't bend them into something totally opposite of what they were. From what we've seen of it so far, it removes some of your natural restrictions, gives you "free" will, and nudges you down roads where your desire or ambition is already leading, but common sense or the order of things keeps you from pursuing. I don't have the book on me, but Nemesis is cited in tons and tons of mortal cases of just this.

Aurora didn't become an evil Winter Fae. She wanted to do something fundamentally inline with her character: end suffering, out of kindness.

Maeve didn't become kind and gentle. She remained selfish and conniving - but Nemesis spurred that selfishness to madness.

Nemesis pushed Aurora as far as she could go.

Now what I think is notable is that Nemesis does this and pushes people toward evil ends, whatever their intentions.

...and a wizard by the name of Harry Dresden also has done the same thing to the shadows of Fallen angels, Marcone, and wildfae, but for noble ends.

Harry is the anti-Nemesis.

EDIT: !!!!!!
Harry himself does this - he does crazy things and exercises free will etc. to do good/noble things (and its contagious.) That's what made him special. The doll/nature spirirt he summoned - it knew about it. If you recall, it asked him WHY he lives the way he does, because the WHY was VERY VERY important.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: WOJ: Hexenwufl solved
« on: May 02, 2012, 01:54:37 AM »
I agree with pretty much everything you said, except about Cirdan. While he is very old, he was almost certainly not one of the the first to awaken. On Tolkien forums they have gone through it and shown that he has parents (cousin to Elwe for example) hence not one of the original elves.

Ah, I don't get around forums much, so I am unfamiliar with the reference. I was aware he was referred to as kin of Olwe and Elwe, but as far as I was aware, the elves who had first awakened considered themselves related to each other (Elwe and Olwe are brothers, for example, but as far as we know had no parents) even in the absence of parents. There's likely some drafts or other sources that I am unfamiliar with, though.

Either way, as you say, he was really, really damn old, and probably at least remembered Cuivienen, which is kind of like being Cain or Abel if not Adam or Eve.

And yeah, that makes him much older than Galadriel, but I believe we don't know by how much, since I don't believe there is an accurate estimation of the golden age of Valinor or when Galadriel was born in it.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: WOJ: Hexenwufl solved
« on: May 02, 2012, 12:45:34 AM »
Fair point, but one that might seem stronger to someone raised in Celtic lore. For us ignorant Americans the Fomor are pretty darn esoteric -- most modern fantasy that talks about the Fae doesn't talk about the Fomor (Tolkien, Gaiman, Susannah Clarke, etc.).

If I were going to compare Tolkien's Elves to the Fae - which I wouldn't, as they are different in every imaginable way - I would say that the exiled Noldor would be the equivalent to Fomor. They rebelled against the gods, slew their kin (the Kinslayings were unimaginably wicked in Tolkien's universe; Elves simply did not fight each other let alone kill each other), stole the treasured ships of Teleri to sail across the sea (and then burned them, which was also very evil in context) and wage a doomed war on an evil god while becoming pretty nasty themselves. Indeed, while their war against Morgoth was doomed from the beginning, it fell apart earlier than it might have because of their misdeeds and treachery.

By the time of the Lord of the Rings, Galadriel is the last of the Noldor (edit: Well, there were a couple of others come to think of it, but she was the main one that mattered) in Middle-Earth, and she's ancient indeed - probably only Cirdan, the shipwright you see at the end of the movie, is older, since he was among the first elves that awoke in the world. She was one of the better Noldor, but that scene where she considers taking the Ring shows (by WoT) what her ambition was for thousands of years.

Nevertheless, I feel uncomfortable describing any of the Elves as really evil, like some tales suggest the Fomor are, because they were fundamentally opposed to the one true source of evil, Morgoth. There were no really "bad" Elves - there were some Morgoth was able to enthrall and enslave, but no Elf by his own choice ever served Morgoth or his servant Sauron. Even Feanor and his followers were just really deeply misguided (and later bound, against their will, by their oath - and no, that's not a similarity with Fae, any creature in Middle-Earth would have been bound by an oath like that), but still fundamentally "good" and capable of redemption. And heck, if they hadn't rebelled, the Sindar and Dwarves would have been overrun, mankind would have been lost to Morgoth, and the whole history of Middle-Earth wouldn't have been set in motion.


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DF Reference Collection / Re: WOJ: Hexenwufl solved
« on: April 29, 2012, 08:58:48 PM »
1- Grevane didn't think Harry was a Kemmlerite. he sensed dark/ necro magic trace in Harry. that is it. not once did he call him a Kemmlerite.

He didn't come right out and say it in those words, no. He says "You are, in fact, more of my own persuasion" and "This need not end in bloodshed - particularly not now, so close to the end of the race. Join me against the others." The implication is that he thinks he and Harry have been working at the same goal, Kemmler's teachings, ("the race") and that they should work together against the other Kemmlerites.

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2- Cowl did not imply he met Grevane and CT before, he comes out and says it directly in that chapter i provided. he speaks and works with them.

He says he has seen them in action before, and that when it comes down to it, he's the smart one who actually gets things done. That's not the same thing as speaking and working with them.

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3- Harry senses the dark magic in Cowl when they meet in front of the bookstore. much like himself. than when Cowl flees he senses a stronger use of the dark magic. also using the Darkhallow is dark magic. why give away yourself using necro magic if you don't need to? it is a tactical decision.

What's tactical about it?

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4- Cowl is bonkers. p324 same chapter. H " your the orrect madman for the job."
C, "i do not percieve myself to be mad. but if i were truly mad, would i be able to tell."

He's probably not all there, but he's at least capable of considering the question. Has Harry not wondered the same thing?

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5- he considered himself the lesser of the 3 evils. which is a load of bunk since he would be responsible for killing thousands still by finishing the Darkhallow instead of stopping it.

He considered himself different based on what was going happen to the world if Grevane or Corpsetaker ascended versus if he ascended.

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6- he spared Harry?! he would have killed him in at the book store. he killed him by breaking the circle holding Erl knowing he would come back to kill him. he told dresden if he came to the ritual he would kill him.

Harry's still alive, isn't he?

He never indicated that he intended to kill Harry at the bookstore. He seemed more interesting in taking the book and testing his strength. He then left when a couple wolves showed up rather than press matters.

He told Harry he would kill him if he got in the way of his plans to save the world from an evil dark god. Harry got in his way twice anyway. He let Harry go after the Erlking summoning, even though he was at his mercy. Yes, he assumed that the Erlking would come back later and finish him off, but he still spared him. He even spared him at the Darkhallow, even when Evil Bob told him the ritual would likely fail with Dresden alive.

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7- he wasn't going to wipe out the WCV he was going to place Vitto at its head to run it for him.

Vitto turned on his own people. The Malvoras and Skavis all died, and all the Raiths would have died. The only White Court vampire to survive would have been Vitto, and any lesser vamps who didn't attend. The White Court would have been basically extinct. Nowhere did Cowl or Vitto imply the goal of the operation was to consolidate power under Vitto, and it wouldn't have made very much sense. If that's what they wanted, they should have not involved Dresden and Cowl should have killed the Skavis.

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8- why not tell him the WCouncil is corrupt it will make him not trust them and take away an ally from him if he stops working with them. he tells them the WC will fall perhaps tomorrow. Cowl was planning on gaining that power from the Darkhallow so he basically said he was going to destroy the WC.

And why did Cowl need to be so indirect with Harry, who he clearly outclassed? Why did he talk about the horrible things Grevane and Corpsetaker were going to do to the world that he needed to stop?

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9- he was burning the Erl book because he did not want the summoning ritual to be used by someone to stop the Darkhallow. since he had already had the book he knew the ritual.

If Cowl was BC, he could have just asked Peabody and they could have never written the book.

in WN Cowl would not have wiped out the WCV. he would have gained contol of them. they were supposed to be involved in the war aiding the RCV. thanks to Dresden backing Lara he took them out of the war. Cowl planned on using Vitto to get them back in the war since the RCV were weakening.

Vitto worked for Cowl and was going to burn a building down and kill dresden and the Ordo. Cowl did not bring Dresden's attention to the culling, Madrigal did it w/out Vitto or Cowl's order.

as for Cowl not killing anyone in DB.... haha. he practically killed Dresden a few times. by breaking the circle he knew the Erl would want to kill him. Harry would have died  when Cowl absorbed the Darkhallow as well as Ramirez and thousands of others. only reason he didn't kill Harry was he was worried about Dresden's Death Curse so close to the ritual time.

The only thing Cowl would have gained control of would be the massive pile of WCV corpses he and his agent created.

Lara instigated the Skavis and Malvora plots to kill mortal women, not Cowl.  The only direct action Cowl took in White Night was to watch his servant murder nearly all the WCVs. No WCVs would have survived had Dresden not intervened.

Unless Dresden held Erlking in that circle until he died of old age, Dresden had already screwed himself over. Cowl breaking the circle changed nothing with regard to what the Erlking was going to do to Dresden when he got a chance.

Cowl was not afraid of Dresden's death curse, and as Dresden said, he wouldn't need anything near as powerful as his death curse to stop Cowl at the moment he was drawing down the power.

And Cowl's actions in DB were nevertheless very different from the other bad guys, who ran around killing and black magicking indiscriminately. Cowl, meanwhile mugged Dresden, used an EMP, veiled himself, and tried to finish the Darkhallow.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: WOJ: Hexenwufl solved
« on: April 29, 2012, 08:08:06 PM »
Neurove argued for a while that Cowl failed the darkhallow on purpose, that the whole thign was a trap to take out kemmler's people.

my only issue with that is he attempted the ritual, which would have killed tens of thousands.

Yeah, while Cowl was determined to take out Kemmler's people, he still started the ritual after Grevane and Corpsetaker were incapacitated - although you could at least make the argument that he didn't know about Corpsetaker. I think he was determined to get the Darkhallow because he was convinced he needed the power to stop anyone else from doing the same thing, and for his whole stop-death deal. Ciowl believed the world was shortly going to become a dark place, and he probably felt like he needed the power to do what he could.

There's no chance of Cowl being a "good" guy like Michael, but I think it's quite possible he's a "good guy" like, say, the Blackstaff or Kincaid.

EDIT: Although come to think of it, Corpsetaker was not actually dead. Maybe that's what Cowl meant by the only way to be sure he took them out was by using the Darkhallow, he knew they couldn't be killed even if they were killed.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: WOJ: Hexenwufl solved
« on: April 29, 2012, 07:48:52 PM »
My opinion, based on his relationship with Kumori, is Cowl is full of bleep. Look at a man's actionss, not his words: he was goign to kill tens of thousands of people to try and become a god, at which point he probably had soem deal in place to kill the white council and help the reds win the war.

then, afterwards, he tries to restart the war between the white council and the white court.

he may be misguided as heck, but hes not a good guy.

Cowl evidently believed he couldn't take Grevane or Corpsetaker, or he would have even if his goals had been to start the Darkhallow. Cowl doesn't kill anyone in DB that I can remember. Even in the final battle, he's just standing their veiled as a zombie until the crucial moment.

In White Nights, Cowl would have exterminated the White Court if Dresden hadn't intervened and saved the Raiths (making them more powerful than ever.) Lara was the one who instigated the attacks. We don't know when the Malvora hooked up with Cowl, but the plan was Lara's.

I don't think Cowl is a good guy (though he thinks he is), but I'm not sure that he's BC judging by what we know the BC has tried to do and what Cowl has tried to do. I'd think of him as a darker Dresden.

EDIT: Also, FWIW, it was Cowl and the Malvora who drew Dresden's attentions to the attacks.

EDIT2: Also, I believe it was Corpsetaker and maybe Grevane who had the deal with the Reds. Corpsetaker had dealings with the Fomor in GS, which makes her more suspicious in terms of BC material to me. OTOH, we have evidence Cowl was aware of it, given his statement that the Council would fall within a few days.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: WOJ: Hexenwufl solved
« on: April 29, 2012, 07:37:28 PM »
DB chapter 34 page 323(pb)
"we smile at one another and play nicely all in the name of Kemmler's greater glory, of course. ......."

Chapter 8, p98.

"Get your own book, Kemmlerite."
"I have nothing but disdain for the madman Kemmler."

"Is that what you're doing, destroying copies of the book?"
"Time has taken most of them. We have accounted for the rest." (K)

"Is it not enough that Kemmler's disciples could use this knowledge for great evil?"

"Grevane and the Corpsetaker are madmen. They must be stopped."  (K)

"Do you know why Cowl has made a study of necromancy? [...] Necromancy can be turned upon it's nature[.] Life can be served by that dark power, if one's will and purpose are strong."

"Grevane and the Corpsetaker are determined. I intend to beat them to the prize and use it to destroy them. It's the only way to be sure one of those madmen does not become something more terrible than the Earth has ever seen."

Cowl does imply he's met Grevane and Corpsetaker before. But I think it's clear he was never a mole in any meaningful sense of the word, and very unlikely he ever worked with Kemmler, even as a spy.

We saw that Grevane immediately leapt to the conclusion that Dresden too was a Kemmlerite working towards the same purpose as the others just on the basis of Dresden's aura or magic being tainted. It seems fairly clear that Cowl never worked with Kemmler, or was ever any kind of mole - the actual Kemmlerites just assumed he was because he was going for the Darkhallow, so they assumed he was acting in Kemmler's name. In actuality, Cowl intended on stopping them himself - not because he actually wanted the power for himself, but because he was convinced the Darkhallow was going to happen, and it had better be him there rather than one of the crazy Kemmlerites.

That's important because even though Cowl is a student of necromancy, it's clear his aims and purposes are very, very different than Kemmler's. On the other hand, I think it's important to note Cowl never actually used necromancy once, and his apprentice (?) Kumori only used it to revive the dying guy.

Indeed, in DB at least, I'm almost inclined to believe that Cowl was working at cross-purposes to the BC. The BC (we believe, anyway) has taken every opportunity to throw the world into chaos. Cowl not only seemed intent on stopping (world-wide, not Chicago-wide) chaos and destruction in DB, he alerted Dresden to the corruption on the White Council and clearly seemed to oppose it. He refrained from using black magic at all, and Kumori did only once. Those affected by the BC reek with black magic (the hexen wolves, the curses and rituals.) He seemed mostly reasonable, and spared Dresden many times, even though Dresden's stopped BC plot after BC plot. He's even out there burning books written by a known BC operative, Peabody.

Either way, he may have been BC-aligned during DB, but he wasn't a "mole" and it seems unlikely he ever hung out with Kemmler.

Isn't there a WOJ that some of the people we think are bad may not be? Thinking more on it, Cowl also would have eradicated the White Court vampires if not for Dresden, and we simply don't know enough to judge what the athame situation was about, especially in light of Mab's alleged madness.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: WOJ: Hexenwufl solved
« on: April 29, 2012, 05:51:19 PM »
I suspect the Black council had agents in each of the major powers, and that cowl was their agent in kemmler's legion of doomy doom doom.

Cowl made it fairly clear he never had anything to do with Kemmler.

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DF Reference Collection / Re: WOJ: Hexenwufl solved
« on: April 29, 2012, 04:05:34 PM »
I thought it was the goblin Lord Orduluka, or Rafforut, in the Erlking's court, not the Erlking himself.

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