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Messages - atavistic

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DFRPG / Re: Modular Abilities Expanded
« on: October 31, 2012, 12:18:39 AM »
The stark truth of it is simple: the most sound tactical decision for a character design which features modular abilities is to put as many points into it as possible for the largest advantage.  Unless a rebate power (IOP, human form, Catch, feeding dependency) creates a need to take a separate power then the tactical choice should always be more modular abilities refresh.

Why doesn't this happen is a much more complicated question but it boils down to this: Not every template should permit such a design.

Players shouldn't be picking their powers ad hoc, they should fit a template, even a custom template and that template should spell out what powers they can, should, must and may have, both during creation and during advancement.  Said template is meant to be a cooperative effort between player and GM.  Even something like a changeling should have its power path planned out based on its parent hood.
Just don't let your player put everything into Modular abilities unless there is a very super strong reason it should be like that.

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DFRPG / Re: Common Rituals
« on: October 30, 2012, 11:03:46 PM »
My quick take on actual use of common rituals:  you find the instructions, which tells you what the complexity and effect of the spell are.  The actual instructions should also state what the some or all of the decorations which are required to complete the ritual as if the instructions were the wizard designing the ritual.

  Once you're ready you attempt to cast the spell, you take your sponsor dept and then start discipline rolling to build up your power, with shifts less then your conviction just like normal, and if you're not a caster you'll probably be taking some damage, or paying fate or taking more dept during the ritual to avoid backlash. Then boom, it goes off like any other thaumaturgy spell without actually having to possess the ritual or thaumaturgy power.
A wizard would probably have little to no reason to use common rituals unless it was for a kind of magic outside of his realm of knowledge.

IT might just be me, but I always took it to be that determining the aspects/decorations of a ritual was part of the ritual design and not just done ad hock or done on the fly as the spell is cast, thus the working together or doing mini-scenes to complete the prep, and give it a good narrative feel.

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DFRPG / Re: Warden Sword for a Mortal?
« on: October 19, 2012, 01:36:32 PM »
A pure mortal, the average person doesn't have supernatural power to back them up, in response to this deficit a person has to rely on what made us the dominant species, ingenuity, guile and creativity.  For me I see part of that extra refresh bonus as being an extension of that mindset, its extra stunts or a few extra aspects invoked in a game session, it reflects the outside the box thinking and resourcefulness that makes people people and how they manage to win or survive against the bigger faster meaner things that go bump in the night.  But give a man a hammer (or sword) and every problem starts to look like a nail.

A mortal with a supernatural power is going to start seeing the world in terms of 'how can I superpower my way to victory?' Once you have that power you start to try and 'game' everything towards your strength.  Options that don't rely on that advantage stop being considerations and your world view starts to shrink.  The bigger and better the hammer, the more you try and make your problems a nail, and those hammer free solutions fade completely from view.  This is how a person becomes a monster, how they loose their free will and how they use up their refresh.

If you're giving a character a real supernatural advantage like a powerful magic sword, then you should make them pay for it just like any other hammer in the tool box, regardless of the narrative justifications for it.  He's still going to be seeing his problems as fencing dummies.  "I got it from my brother" and "I got it from my faerie father" just the mode of transition rather then the fact that its magic and its family.

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DFRPG / Re: Walking on Water (north bay stay out)
« on: October 19, 2012, 01:11:18 PM »
Depending on his Lore an enchanted item that either gives a thaumaturgical effect of water walking can either be done as athletics skill equivalent which should get him where he needs go or places the aspect "water walker" and then he can just invoke for effect to bypass the environmental hazard of 'waste deep in water'.
The enchanted item is probably the best 'rules lawyer' option.

A ritual with a one day duration cast at dawn every day will get you the same results over a longer time and may present your players a way to 'level the playing field' by interrupting it.  This probably has the best story payout of your choices.

If you want to be really cheap, as an NPC you can just give him a supernatural aspect of "water walker" then just pay the fate to invoke it when you need it.  Your fate pool is unlimited and it doesn't pay to anyone as you do it. This would be the laziest way of doing it.

Giving him the 'aquatic' power and narrating it as walking on water and as an extension of his magic is what I'd be tempted to do as a player wanting this effect as it has a good cost to benefit value, unlimited uses per session with no FP cost, as compared to refinement for the enchanted item slot.  As an NPC you don't really have to be a stickler for refresh costs since villains often have negative refresh.

 

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DFRPG / Re: Common Rituals
« on: October 19, 2012, 12:54:27 PM »
The end result of using a common ritual regardless of your skill or the ritual complexity is that you end up with sponsor dept.  Most likely you don't "need" skill or power but if you don't you are probably going to fail or end up eating a great deal of mental and physical stress as you take backlash after backlash.  That's a lot of consequences and aspects and dept to get compelled at a later date.  That's how you put the "crazed" in Crazed Cultist, and how 'bizarre suicide' ends up in the obituaries.

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DFRPG / Re: construct characters?
« on: October 19, 2012, 12:39:33 PM »
My take on the whole 'free will' issue with inhuman characters is that if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck and floats and flies then even if its not a duck its close enough to count. 

When we talk about free will vs being a monster its not a question of does it have a soul, but rather does it behave as though it does.  A serial killer who can't resist killing is a monster, has a negative refresh and isn't a playable character, but he has a soul.  It could be argued that both Bob and Toot, could be considered as having free will because the both demonstrated the ability to act outside their station or to become something greater then their design. 

Bob does all sorts of actions that look as though they are free will, he takes mister to a strip club and a frat house, he tries to kill his owner when he's evil, he makes a dinosaur eat someone he doesn't like.  He's still tightly bound to his supernatural constraints but he constantly shows he's got wiggle room, like maybe 1 refresh worth of wiggle room.  Toot consistently acts beyond his station, he killed a faerie queen, attacked shagnasty and organized a fighting force, none of which is part of being a tiny pizza loving dew drop faerie.  It could be argued that it was dresden's actions that lead them to all that but the same could be said about Lash's act of free will too.

They might not have free will but they sure act like it.  And just like the serial killer is a monster, maybe these soulless beings have free will. Freedom isn't always a black or white, sometimes is a matter of degrees, and a character just has to be free enough to go above and beyond the call of compels to be free enough to play. If you're looking to have a construct as a character look to these for the Dresden lore surrounding free will and then look to Pinocchio and Dorothy's wizard of Oz companions for creative inspiration.  Maybe your golem who wishes he had free will has had it all along.  YMMV

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DFRPG / Re: Item of Power Feedback: Archmage Staff
« on: October 19, 2012, 12:19:59 PM »
I definitely suggest that you go with a sponsored magic rather then some points of refinement.  Take a look at how Kemmlerian Necromancy is written and build off that, maybe something as simple as: add 2 additional elements or a +1 to your highest specialization and allows the wielder to use their highest thaumaturgy specialty with evocation's etc.  Call it White Council Arch-wizardry and maybe the senior council all has it which could explain some of their extra fancy tricks they pull from time to time, like Indian Joe's shape changing and Merlin's super wards.  And the sponsor agenda is upholding the laws and defending wizards or some such.

Plus as a sponsored magic the cost is variable and gives close to full form magic to someone who doesn't already have any spell casting.  A focused practitioner or a non caster would end up with a limited evocation range and not much real thaumaturgy but would have a legitimate means of cast spells.  Though his cost would be distinctly higher refresh wise. (4 rather then 2 for sponsored magic).

If you make the Catch something like lawless magic (meaning lawbreakers or non mortal magic) and give it a value of +1, then you end up with a total refresh cost of the staff of IOP +2, sponsored magic -2, Catch +1, supernatural recovery -4 for a net value of -3.

If you're looking for an even more magic centric item you might think about supernatural toughness with a catch of 'protects only against magic' that would give you a Catch value of 4 to 6 and you could have both toughness and recovery powers making you a god in a wizard duel and making such a staff a real coveted item amongst those in the know.


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DFRPG / Re: Wings and dropping people
« on: October 15, 2012, 07:48:29 PM »
I keep finding myself coming back to this paragraph in the Falling rules.

The falling rules are not an invitation for super-strong characters and spellcasters to start picking people up and tossing them to a great height, only to fall down and take egregious falling damage. That’s an attack, and the stress dealt by any falling component is already included in the stress of the attack. If your
force-bolt “uppercuts” a guy so he flies up and then falls back down with a crunch of bone, the damage dealt by the attack itself accounts for the “fall back down” part—essentially, in this case, falling is a special effect, a detail of color. Additionally, knocking characters off of high places should have plenty of escape clauses.


Add in the actual mechanics of physically lifting an object up off the ground and you really end up needing a lot of strength, maybe even Super-strong character kinds of strength.

he isn’t really going to be able to move much more than a zone carrying something that’s equal to his base Might. A character can carry something two levels below his Might for a short distance (allowing him to make a sprint roll restricted by Might, with the item’s difficulty as a border value). He can carry something four levels below his Might with no real penalty or can toss it a distance of one zone. Something six levels below his Might could be used as a thrown weapon.

Note the actual movement that you may take during a grapple is only one shift, this means you have to beat the lifting value of the object by 4 to negate the carried item border value.

if you so choose, you can freely make an unopposed attack, movement, or maneuver on your opponent as a supplemental action, which has a value of 1 shift.
In other words, whenever your turn to roll the grapple comes up again, you can automatically choose to inflict a one-shift hit to the target, drag the target with you one zone, or inflict a maneuver (like Tangled Up), and then you must roll the grapple at –1 (the other action you take is considered supplementary because it
doesn’t require a roll).

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DFRPG / Re: Wings and dropping people
« on: October 15, 2012, 03:04:53 PM »
I think the biggest problem that people are encountering has been reached because they are looking at this as a mechanical problem rather then a narrative issue.  It shouldn't be a question of how do I mechanically model this flyer vs walker event but rather how do I narrate it.

Being in the air does not have to place you in a different zone.  A zone can be as small as an outhouse or as big as a parking lot, and its dimensions are determined by the narrative value rather then the square footage.  Being airborne doesn't place you in a different zone unless that air space has some narrative value (like say a complex air and ground battle with combatants spread through out).

 (Falling out of a airspace zone is better modeled as damage from an environmental hazard aspect rather then a fall damage event, where the smart person simply concedes out of the fight rather then try to absorb the damage of the hazard.) 

Additionally a 'grapple' the fancy block is not definitively the same as two people grappling.  Narratively all it indicates is a struggle that starts with some initial advantage as described by the first aspect.  All the other movements of that struggle are created by the grapple aspects or by the stress generated.

If you want to snatch someone up and drop them to the ground then all it really needs to be is a starting aspect "grabbed" done as a maneuver and then each round you place aspects like 'aloft', 'up in the sky', 'its so high up here', on the target on each free grapple maneuver.  Then tag them all when you drop his ass to the ground using a regular old attack.
Remember simply breaking the grapple by successful attack doesn't remove the aspects that have been placed, so the victim can still be 'grabbed' even if he ends the grapple by some successful action, (a smart person does it by maneuver of grabbing them back, or removing one of the grapple maneuvers).

(PS a smart flyer would use their athletics to make declarations about their altitude or aerial placement in flight each round and then tag to invoke for effect against people trying to attack them in ways that wouldn't hit a flying target.)

You don't need a huge series of extra rules to adjudicate this unusual situation just a little creativity.

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DFRPG / Re: Ancient Knowledge (Asheville keep out)
« on: October 05, 2012, 12:54:50 AM »
Remember that +1 to all social rolls against supernaturals is only a 1 refresh power and there are lets say 5 social skills out of 25 skills total, so your math of 5 refresh for a +1 to every skill is ball park actuate. just make the requisite: must be Shonokin. or really just be arbitrary about their skill values and use this to calculate their refresh value in terms of how many shonokin per encounter is balanced.

PS: Dresden lore wise, Demonreach has a limp from the movement of the ice age glaciers and the Erlking reminisced about the good old days of dinosaurs. To be really older then the big movers and shakers of nevernever you need to start predating homo sapiens rather then recorded human history but predating human occupation of North America only needs an ice age or two, which would be much shorter.

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DFRPG / Re: New to the DFRPG, question on silly, unorthodox tactics
« on: October 04, 2012, 11:46:50 PM »
If you've ever scene what happens to someone who's tied down and tickled without reprieve and with malicious intent, you'll understand that its sure as hell actual mental stress inducing interrogation. (seriously look up tickle torture at your own peril.)  Almost any activity that strips away a person's autonomy, dignity and sense of control and leaves them feeling helpless and violated is pretty damned awful, (think about what happens to "making love" when done this way)it should probably feel pretty dark and gritty or it becomes acceptable, leading to kidnap and torture termed detainment and enhanced interrogation and you need a bigger shelf for your collection of ears.

 If you want to treat it as 'light hearted' then make such physical actions against him act only as maneuvers and play it out as a normal social combat, with the detainee making counter attacks using empathy (pick out the most defenseless interrogator) rapport ("please stop, please"), intimidate ("you guys will be in so much trouble when I tell") or deceit ( bad intel, "I've got a heart condition", "just untie these ropes and I'll tell you what you want) and then see how much stomach your players characters have when they start eating consequences for continuing till they get what they want.

 Remember that being tied up is far less of a weakness in a social or mental conflict when you can't actually pull teeth with pliers or work their ribs with a tire iron and leave them no defense to use.  And I wish you luck.

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DFRPG / Re: Messing With The Skill List
« on: October 04, 2012, 11:23:21 PM »
Rather then merging skills there are almost enough groupings of skills to want to create columns of related skills, putting all the physical skills in one (guns, weapons, fists, athletics, endurance), social in one (intimidate, deceit, rapport, empathy, presence), and then group the remaining 15 skills into a few groups like maybe (discipline, conviction, lore, scholarship) and ( stealth, burglary, investigation, alertness) et al.

  Then restrict a player to using only one skill column on their skill tree ( meaning only one grouped skill in any one skill rank).  This sort of thing starts to create a more rounded characters but still gives most of the variety that you would want from a diverse skill choice without having goons who cant talk and talkers who just stand there and bleed.  Heck you could even give out more skill points so people are missing less skills but make each column one rank lower then the previous to create a very sloped sort of organization.  You end up with less skills (and trappings) missed while not having to monkey odd trappings together as much.

PS: if your finding athletics to be far to potent, then yank the dodge trapping out, put a 'taking cover' trapping in guns to count as ranged defense, and 'spell defense' into discipline, and then everyone defends like skill with like skill, and then bringing a knife to a gun fight is way stronger truism.

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DFRPG / Re: Articles of Faith Defense
« on: October 04, 2012, 11:00:11 PM »
It really comes down to a form and function sort of issue.  You could model an act of faith as a block, in which case the creature in question has to tough it out and fight through the block to get at you.  Or you can model it as a maneuver using faith against discipline and then just invoke for effect on its turn to prevent its attack and repeat as needed, until he pays the FP to act or you fail the maneuver roll.   In the same vain, the creature being blocked could use a skill that you aren't blocking against, like say discipline or intimidate and plant an aspect on you that it then invokes for effect to compel you to not block for the same sort of result.  either way you whip out your holy symbol and it has to change strategies.

OR you could use your conviction to make a decoration of "holy symbol" make a social action against the creature, and then just tag it for a bonus on the social attack, and hopefully place a consequence that you can tag related to the act of faith.  And that attack could be defended by discipline.

You can model the effect however you'd like and still end up with the same narrative, its just a question of nuts and bolts, (and of which move will most likely succeed.  Can he pay the FP to ignore the compel, can you overcome his stress track with the attack, will he think to drop a car on you to use his might to beat your block?  Its a meta-game strategy shell game by and large.)

PS, there are stunts that let you maneuver with conviction, could be one that lets you block, and Holy touch lets you pull these types of things off as well.  Just in case you don't feel the skill alone satisfies.

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DFRPG / Re: Resisting magic?
« on: October 03, 2012, 05:08:24 PM »
I'm noticing that a lot of these examples are moving very quickly from the realm of surviving an assassination as a single huge ambush hit from a safe distance to what could only be described as a really unevenly matched combat.
Some guy comes at you with two dozen aspects (at least a dozen to get a 24 shift bonus, maybe another half dozen to push up to 36 shifts, and a few for over kill) already in place against you at the start of a combat, you need to run, and hide, and pull out all the stops to make it out alive.  If they don't burn all of them in the first shot, then you get to take an action, its both the way the game works and how time flows.  Game wise, that first hit HOPEFULLY wasn't all tagging and he's spent at least a few fate points on the attack, good news if you survived is that you get those fate points to use in your next defense or even better to spend as Invoke for effects to put something in place to save your ass when you concede, Like help coming to your rescue before you get finished off, or medical help, or any number of random, Life is Chaos, cant take into account every variable type compels to keep your killer from finishing you off.

Setting wise:  From what we've seen of magic in Dresden's world, you really can't cascade a huge set of large thaumaturgies at someone to create an MRSI type casting would be worlds more complex then one big spell.  Whenever we see thaumaturgy in action and even by the rules, the power gets gathered all the aspects get counted and when the last of the power is there, the circle is broken and the spell goes out. 

To do something like 10 - 10 shift hits would mean making and braking 10 circles, gathering power 10 times, and placing aspects on each spell to delay it just the right amount of time to have it all hit at once.  That's a lot of power, aspects gathered or FP spent. 

If you only have one sympathetic link, after its first use you have to spend the FP each additional spell, or have 10 links.  That hands a fair few FP over to your target. Plus most links have a limited usable value, blood dries, hair only works if the matching piece is still on the targets head, etc.  IF you happen to say, light your target on fire, or light your link on fire in order to light your target on fire, then you can't use it again for the next spell.

 The risks of getting compelled during this massive undertaking go up and up every round your drawing power.  Some random thought or distraction and you end up a vegetable, much like Dresden fears the first time he brings little Chicago on line. A phone ringing, a visitor unannounced and boom backlash.  In game terms if you create say 20 aspects all relating to you and your spell casting and NONE of them end up compelled at some point during things, someone is being a lazy GM.

PS: if your GM hits you with a 36 shift attack, out of the blue with no in game warning, and no way you can generate enough defense to live and it simply takes you out with DEATH, then calmly pack up your things, say "That was a pretty slick move."  and shake his hand. Then smash him over his smug prick face with your sack of books and dice, because all he really did was say, " I don't like your character so he's dead." and you probably won't and shouldn't play with such a power tripping clown anyway.

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DFRPG / Re: Resisting magic?
« on: October 01, 2012, 03:52:55 PM »
If someone's coming after you with thaumaturgy you've really got two hopes.  One, that they haven't done their homework, or Two, you get to them first. 
Thaumaturgy spells are effectively an attack of its power, weapon zero.  The aim is to get an attack that will force a taken out where you've declared that DEAD will be the result.  You've got to fill all of the targets consequences, fill their stress track and beat their defense skill and roll. Minor 2, moderate 4, serious 6, extreme 8 gives you 20 plus a 4 stress track and a say 4 skill and +4 best possible role. That's a 32 power spell to get most people (Shadow man's heart spell was more complete, targets 5 skill and an extra mild consequence and an extra point to ensure the stress track gets run down).   

Hope One is that you have more an extra consequence, extra point of defense,  a toughness power, a threshold or ward, or an aspect that you can tag.  If they didn't go for vast overkill, and you have that extra moment of defense, you survive with only all your consequences filled in and your last box on your stress track filled, but you're not taken out.  The other part of hope One is that they were lazy or economical in their spell and didn't prep an extra few aspects in 'just in case'.
 
It takes time to put together all the elements of a spell that big, and a pretty strong caster to pull it off ( thaumaturgy control of 5 or higher is a must as a -4 roll can and probably will happen in such a long casting), hopefully you either have enough allies to find out that someone is gunning for you or you don't have enemies that dangerous.  This is where hope Two comes into play.
 Against an enemy with unlimited time and resources and perfect magic control, kill or be killed is the only real option, much as Harry has done in at least 3 books.

Prevention is really the key, without a sample item to target with, thaumaturgy can't attack you. Even better a false sample item can cause an mistaken compel and result in the spell failing and thus backlashing with nasty results.  Building a really powerful ward on your home is good prevention as the curse will degrade a lot when it hits it.  Or you could just hide in the nevernever where earth bound spells don't reach unless aimed there.

As for simpler thaumaturgy like love spells or single aspect maneuver spells, getting them off after is much more achievable then resisting them.  Though the above strategy still applies.

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