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Messages - Hell's Belle

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Author Craft / Re: Some Fantasy Standards
« on: August 31, 2009, 05:51:30 PM »
Keep in mind that there are other types of vampires that don't fit your list of commonalities- you're keeping yourself within the boundaries of Western lore.  There's a world of eeeeeeeeeek! out there to spice up vampires.  :)

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Site Suggestions & Support / Re: Update the site?
« on: August 25, 2009, 07:34:05 AM »
Can I just GUSH at those pictures?  Evie's absolutely adorable!

Thanks for sharing, Fred!

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Author Craft / Re: Any thoughts on planning out a paranormal mystery?
« on: July 08, 2008, 03:38:06 AM »
It's going to be tough. If you look on the shelves at any bookstore, you'll see that everyone is cranking out paranormal mysteries now (likely in an effort to ride JB's coattales- as if!).  If you're sticking with the genre, you're going to have to do something nobody has tried yet...and you're going to have to do it very well.

Good luck!

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Author Craft / Re: What Causes Endless Night? Anyone know?
« on: July 08, 2008, 03:33:02 AM »
High fantasy, huh?

Some very, very clever and determined (and OLD) Vampires have collaborated and found a way to put this particular city into eternal night.  Nobody knows how they did it, the wizards are frantically trying to undo it, but the Vampires are very sneaky and have managed to hide, thus avoiding answers.

That makes the townsfolk remaining extremely wary. And paranoid.  Sales of vampire-Be-Gone are through the roof.

That way, you neatly sidestep having to explain anything, providing the reader with a good hook to suspend his/her disbelief, right off the bat.

No pun intended. (Bat, vampire, get it? Huh? Huh?)

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Author Craft / Re: Need Thesaurus help
« on: March 15, 2008, 05:29:08 AM »
For earth? Hmm. How about something a bit off-the-wall, such as 'decrustation'?  As others have said, it's all in the context.  Disintegrate, crumble, pulverise...

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Author Craft / Re: Contemporary Fantasy markets
« on: March 13, 2008, 11:19:59 PM »
Looks like you tried for the Urban Fantasy portion of it, so why not aim for some of the mystery magazines out there? I think there's one called "The Strand" or something; I've seen it in the bookstores. Go for that angle, and see if anyone nibbles.

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Author Craft / Re: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy?
« on: December 22, 2007, 07:06:11 AM »
Moving on...

What Id like to see in modern fantasy more is Supernatural explanations/motivations for familiar things, especially locations.  I mean, everyone expects there to be mysticism with old structures such as Stonehenge or various temples and pyramids.  But, if Magic never died out, why would the practice of mystically significant architecture be a lost thing.  Age doesn't have to be the only thing to give a place power or purpose.  A similar vein was used in the recent Transformers film where the Hoover Dam was built to conceal alien artifacts and vast energy signatures. 


Take the Dresdenverse for example: 

Given what we know about magic, and that magic has a presence in an almost corporate guise with Monoc Securities,  there has to be more to the design of the Pentagon than a mere misunderstanding of the phrase "Think outside the box."  Maybe its part of some kind of giant sigil of malicious intent, or maybe its shape is part of some intense mystical defenses for our governments military and intelligence. 

And this can work from almost anything:

Maybe Fort Knox is Fort-freaking-Knox because They (Capital T) needed to convince the masses that its was impenetrable to tap the energies of that mass belief into actually making it so, and gold was just a sellable euphemism for some other treasure.

Maybe the Arc de Triomphe, with its Twelve radial Streets, is actually a giant portal of Napoleonic Empirialism. 
Same idea with the St. Louis "Gateway Arch"  (tell me thats not just begging to be an invasion point for fey outsiders or black council).

The Vatican, which is structurally a circle inside a square inside a five pointed star, has some infinite possibilities.




(For a larger list of geometrically suspect structures, see:  http://www.city.hakodate.hokkaido.jp/kikaku/kokusai/$summit/01-cities.htm)

Now THIS is an excellent suggestion.  I'd have never really considered it, but it adds another layer of depth and mystery.

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Author Craft / Re: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy?
« on: December 19, 2007, 04:40:21 PM »
I think we're having some blurring on what exactly different people mean by "ordinary".

It also occurs to me that, even if you did manage to start out with someone whom everyone was satisfied was "ordinary", they're not going to stay that way very long, because to my mind the "ordinary" person's first reaction to weird violent stuff happening is to try to hand it off to the competent authorities, or otherwise get out of the way, and succeeding at doing that doesn;t actually make for a story.

EXACTLY.

This is the point I was trying to make...and I guess I didn't do a very good job.

Yes, people can be sung to sleep. I wasn't disputing that.  I was suggesting that IF someone was able to 'sing a werewolf to sleep' while that werewolf was in an alley attacking somoene, it sure as heck wouldn't be someone ordinary that could do such a thing.

I wasn't saying any of this was impossible to write---I was trying to say that a) it would have to be written plausibly, to make such an unlikely event actually occur and b) were someone to be able to sing a creature to sleep during the commission of such an attack, they would not be what would be termed 'ordinary'.  Unless werewolves or vampires or whatever monsters in that author's realm were different than the legends in THIS world.  I kind of figured that went without saying, with this being a forum on an author's website.

I'm not argueing for arguement's sake---but I'm sure as hell not going to simply agree in order to validate a fantasy, either.  The other point I was trying to make was that if it's a book idea, the author has to be able to establish 'the rules' early on.  IF it's a case where the heroine sings a wereolf to sleep during the commission of an attack, the foundation has to be laid early on that it is possible.  If the event was taking place in downtown Los Angeles (for instance) in this day and age, I don't think that I, as the reader, would be able to swallow such an occurrence.  It flies in the face of what I know.  If the author were able to explain early on in the book, or at the time of the singing, something about the timbre or the pitch or something to do with the heroine's voice, that would make it easier to accept.

But it sure wouldn't make her ordinary.

THAT is what I meant by my previous posts.


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Author Craft / Re: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy?
« on: December 18, 2007, 07:24:09 PM »
Well I say that if an author wants to make it work an ordinary person CAN defeat the bad guys and it's boring and over-done to have them turn out to be half fairy or half vampire or whatever. I'm sorry you disagree but it CAN BE DONE.

You seem to be taking this a bit personally, and I'm wondering if that's because you want to find a book that features someone you can identify with to a large degree.

I'm not talking about you personally. If you want something like that, write some fanfic or ask someone to write it for you.

What I'm talking about is that a hero, by definition, isn't an ordinary person. It may be the actual point of saving someone through whatever measure they use, that may define them as extraordinary, but there are many ways to reach beyond the 'ordinary' definition..

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Author Craft / Re: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy?
« on: December 18, 2007, 02:38:17 PM »
How about extrodinary compassion for other people? The willingness to risk their own life for a stranger simply because "It's the right thing to do"? There's ordinary people who do this in the real world. There's absolutely no reason it can't work in a fantasy novel. Sure, maybe they luck out and pick up an old iron pipe to hit the fairy in the head with, or a broken piece of wood that hits the vampire right in the heart. Or perhaps they have a talent like I suggested before - they're able to sing a werewolf to sleep simply because they're such a talented singer. All without having to be anything more then an ordinary human.

Extraordinary compassion is fine when looking at pictures of starving and homeless puppies. It doesn't save someone from being mugged or worse in an alleyway. The best compassion can do is get someone moving, to do something. The emotion, in and of itself, isn't going to do the job.  A person has to have some sort of way of overcoming the foe, and they may be spurred on by their compassion, but they'd better be able to kick butt, whip out a weapon, or be able to holler for help.

I don't buy the singing to sleep thing while the werewolf is in the middle of attacking/chomping down on a 'meal'.  That requires a suspension of disbelief that's beyond what most readers are willing to give. It may work in RPGs or Anime cartoons, but I don't see that ability (which, by the way, makes that person above an ordinary individual) working for that particular situation. Even the legends that base the singing soothing the savage don't try it while the critter is attacking.

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Author Craft / Re: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy?
« on: December 18, 2007, 05:21:50 AM »
Well, the Die Hard movies proved you can just have the "wrong place, right time" senerio work.

A person doesn't need to have special powers to just walk into the wrong alley and get the wrong kind of attention. People in the real world all the time suddenly find themselves witnessing murders, saving people from murderers/thieves/rapists, jumping on top of people who are having seizures and have fallen on subway tracks, etc. Why can't an ordinary person walk in on a vampire or werewolf attack and actually manage to save the victim? Therefore attracting unwanted supernatural attention the same way someone who's witnessed a mafia crime attracts their unwanted attention.

Could you imagine what a supernatural witness protection would be like?

Die Hard movies. You can't use Die hard movies to prove your point. I love them, but let's face it- models of reality, they are not. They're an excuse to blow things up in more creative ways, and use a main character as a continuing thread in the story, to tie all those fireballs together.

An ordinary person doesn't save the victim.  Ordinary people most often ARE victims; so it stands to reason that if they save someone, they have a quality that is extraordinary to begin with.

Most stories have vamps and werewolves being pretty fierce, frightening and strong, so unless the person is one of those gifted with preternatural abilities, it's not often going to happen that they can take them on and save a victim from the big bad.  Part of the inherent scariness about monsters like that is that it knocks humans back down a rung on the food chain, and the potential hunter turns into the potential prey.

So an ordinary person most likely isn't going to be a hero. The hero is going to be someone with a lot of luck. Lots of bravado and smarts, but definitely lots of luck.

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Author Craft / Re: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy?
« on: December 16, 2007, 07:26:39 PM »
I've noticed though that they're often the oddballs because it turns out they're part-something or other. Rarely does it seem that the teen is a normal pure bred human being. Which is what I'd like to see. A normal human, who doesn't fit in too well because they don't fit society's standards of behavior or beauty or what have you. Who turns around and saves people without any special powers, special charms, etc. Just whatever normal talents they happen to have and a bit of brain power.


Oh, I know the type of books you mean. That seems to be the popular bend for characetrs right now. I hope it ends soon. It's tiresome.

The older fiction really doesn't do that.

I thought of another one that has just a plain-Jane heroine (although she's younger- in her teens, I think): Knee-Deep in Thunder.

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Author Craft / Re: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy?
« on: December 16, 2007, 06:35:22 PM »
As for the YA novels - working in a library I KNOW there's a lot of "the oddball is the hero" books. But I don't see why there can't be one like that for ADULTS. We feel like freaks sometimes too you know.


Doesn't just about every fiction book out there fit that bill, in one way or another? I'm trying to call to mind a single story that I've read lately that the hero/heroine fit into society...and I guess I've been reading a lot of oddball/hero books.

And I confess to going back and reading a lot of YA novels.  Blood and Chocolate being the most recent of the lot.

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Author Craft / Re: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy?
« on: December 16, 2007, 06:16:45 PM »
Frankly there's too many YA books where some girl or boy is "a bit of an outsider" cause they're part something or other - and they're the heros of the story. I want an adult novel where she is just an ordinary human being who happens to get sucked into kicking undead or fairy butt. And preferably she'd be fat and short like me cause I'm sick and tired of the Xena-wannabes. Maybe she can find something that would help her. Or maybe she could just have a talent that actually helps in kicking supernatural butt. Since I've always wanted to be the inspiration behind a fictional character let's just use the fact I can sing and sing well as an example - She manages to calm down a rampaging werewolf by crooning the Beatles' Yesterday or Glenn Miller's Moonlight Cockstail to it. (Music hath charms to sooth the savage beast and all that.)

Fixed it.  ;D

I don't agree. YA novels often show kids that don't 'fit in' that they, too, can still be a part of something important.  How many kids have felt alienated, only to read books that show not only is that a normal part of development, but that even the 'oddballs' have potential for greatness?

A lot of books feature 'ordinary' people thrust into extraordinary circumstances.  I've found that many are actually graphic novels, so a trip to the comic store might yield some gratifying results.

Or you could write your own story, since you want something to be based on yourself.  I think one of the big problems facing authors is that they have to appeal to a broad market, which means people of all shapes, sizes and talents having to identify with the main character.  They can't go too esoteric or specific or they'd end up losing a large part of the market.

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Author Craft / Re: What do you wish would be done MORE in urban fantasy?
« on: December 15, 2007, 07:04:15 AM »
More realistic humans. I'm tired of the perfectly in fit human woman or man being the hero. Make them short. Make them fat. Make them have a limb missing. Heck, just make them acne prone for all I care. Just make the humans seem more - human! Why should all heros and heroines be good looking? Why can't they look like some cross between The Phantom Of The Opera and The Elephant Man? Or at least be rather plain.

Fat women can kick vampire butt too, you know.

A Fistful of Sky by Nina Kiriki Hoffman.  It's not a vampire-kicking story, but it's a good one IMO.


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