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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 29, 2011, 07:41:44 AM »
Hmm is it possible to have a Fallen possess or cooperate with a human being? without being a considered a Denarian?
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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 28, 2011, 05:55:52 PM »This makes me think two things:
1. I knew the "el" ending was important and related to God, but that makes me wonder why Lasciel still uses the "el" tag on her name.
2. If Harry removing the "el" tag from Uriel's name would have had a negative effect on Uriel, as is theorized above, what effect did Harry renaming Lasciel's shadow "Lash" have on her?
Before you reply, please remember I'm theorizing further based on the quoted theory.
Maybe its not as much of a direct effect as if its an indirect effect ? Maybe shadows arent the same as the original being. I mean Lash, was influenced by Harry, something that hasn ever been seen before in the Denarian possessing people thing. Similiar to how people say Shades are memories of the people who died but Are Not the actual person themselves. Working off that, its possible that shades/shadows dont have a true name to be referred too. Im going to assume that if the true lasciel was haunting Harry, then there would be much more consenquences with Harry giving her a nickname. Though I really doubt he would care, he will just laugh at her anyway. Plus shes a Fallen Angel, they are not associated with God anymore are they?
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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 28, 2011, 11:47:55 AM »Consider the whispering Fallen...
In previous stories, it's been mentioned that the Knights of the Cross are the countering agent to the Denarians. Since the Denarians are capable of choosing to relinquish their coins, they are still free-willed agents. I don't see how, should one of the Nickelheads have chosen to whisper a lie to Harry, it could be considered "cheating".
There are other Fallen Angels, though...one who is a great deal more powerful than Nicodemus and his crew, and Harry has suspected that That One has been cheating for some time now.
"Pleased to meet you...won't you guess my name?"
He Who Walks Behind is a demon right?
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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 28, 2011, 05:52:15 AM »Well, two important things re: Eb and the White Council.
1. We know Ebenezar knows what Demonreach is, and that Harry's the new Winter Knight. Seems logical he could put 2 and 2 together and realize that Mab doesn't like being cheated and that Demonreach's "custodian" won't just go quietly into the night.
2. Question: Have any other members of the White Council cheated death? Do they know of anyone who has? I can't see Harry as the first person a Fallen has ever whispered murderous lies to.
To the question 2, how many wizards everr in WC history are like Harry. A self-righteous depressing blowing-up buildings mage
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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 28, 2011, 01:57:23 AM »Guys, Do you think the fomor sign the unceli accords? I think not but I cannot confirm it. Does anyone can? Do you guys think that Mab have Harry's pentacle along with Magi SR's ruby? Is the 'Die alone death curse fulfilled? And that part about the whispering Fallen, is it one of the Dinarians or it is just another fallen? I thought fallen inside a coin cannot do that unless the coin holder is arround and the other fallen outside of the 30 in the coin are not allowed to do anything without prmision. Or is it something else entirely. As far as I can gather, Yuriel never actually confirm it is a fallen. He just say it is something in the same league as a fallen. Can anyone shed any light in the matter?
I do not think the Fomor signed the Unceelie Accords, because their existence is a congregation of beings that desire revenge (according to one of the Fae) + the original Fomor were kicked out of the Courts. No need to obey the laws of the civilized. I believe that the pentacle might still be on Harry's body, I do not remember reading anything about the pentacle dropping anywhere, but if it did then I assume Lea has it since she has a promise to fulfill. 2 Theories on the death curse: 1. Yes its done because he "officially" died, soul separated the body but was returned. 2. No because is it arguable that people in a comatose condition have their souls there? Then what about Harry's? No one can answer this question as of yet because I am very sure there are 30 Denarians, but more Fallen Angels exist. The 30 Denarians were part of a Fallen Angel's Guard squad. (Need to re-read that hmm). I dont have my books with me I need to return home, but ill look it up.
Edit: Ahh to the post above me, never read Even Hand
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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 28, 2011, 01:40:35 AM »I don't think anyone has attempted to dispute that fact, not do i disagree that the fallen whispering to him was ultimately responsible for him attempting to end his own life. What I take umbrage at is the fact that he USED molly to further those ends. Sure the fallen may have convinced him that he had to kill himself to protect those he loved, but I certainly doubt that it told him he had to involve Molly to the extent of being completely complicit in the death of the man she loves most in the world. She flat out told him "do you know what this is going to do to me?" in terms of destroying her heart, and he forged on ahead sure of the righteous nature of his actions.
Let's be sure of one thing here, i'm not saying that this has destroyed my faith in Harry, quite the contrary. It's made him seem even more human, more relatable, as he has F'd up huge here. But it's still, by far, leaps and bounds worse than anything he has consciously chosen to do in the series so far, and to do it to someone that he loves makes it worse still.
I agree it makes him more human, but concerning children Harry is willing to sacrifice other people's happiness, similar to when the Archive was kidnapped by the Denarians. He said he had to sacrifice Michael's dream to save her. Let alone this is HIS child were talking about here surrounded by the entire Red Court. Another point of note is I feel that he firmly establishes (or tries too) that his relationship with Molly is just that of mentor and apprentice. I must point out that Harry is extremely clueless and forgetful about how women view him (Luscio and Molly situations)
^ i wanted to point that out.
I disagree with that being his ultimate conscious choice, what he did to Michael and placing his life in jeopardy takes the worst choice in my book.
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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 27, 2011, 07:34:32 PM »Am I the only one who thinks that Murph already suspects that it was Kincaid that killed Harry? Didn't it say in the book that she almost went out of her way to not mention him as a suspect?
I'm about a third of the way through my second read through, so I might be mistaken, but that's something that kind of popped out to me last night. Well, second FULL read through. I went back and reread the last 125 pages or so last night, because the final 'scenes' were just great.
As for how angry she'll be when she finds out that Harry set it all up himself, I really don't know if it's going to be a HUGE problem. I mean, I'm sure she'll be pissed, but I think that if she finds out that he didn't even mention it to Thomas, it might mollify(heh) her a little bit.
Timeout I think we are forgetting a major detail about Harry's decision to arrrange his own murder. Firstly that despair and reasoning wouldn't have come about if it was for the Fallen Angels whispers. Or more precisely, that LEVEL of despair and reasoning. The line the Angel imprinted in him forced Harry to conclude his existence had to end because he would be turned into a monster at the end of the quest. However, that eliminates his ability to make a choice, thus Uriel stepped in. I'm pretty sure Harry would've said something like "screw the role of Winter Knight, I'm harry Dresden" or something.
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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 27, 2011, 07:29:03 PM »I had a different place for Maggie Sr. to show up (by the way, thank you to all of you who post regularly, i haven't had this much fun dissecting a book since college). When Harry materializes, the only thing he doesn't have is his pentagram amulet. Maggie Sr. gave him the amulet, and then in Changes the insert which contained her knowledge of the Ways... so does it make sense that she's the "parasite" who's making his blood flow on Demonreach? Perhaps a shade of herself (like Lash was) is actually imprinted on the amulet... which would be really fun if Harry were to give little Maggie his amulet to help her in her training when she discovers her magical powers...
Then again, i might just be suffering from sleep deprevation... thank you, thank you, thank you Mr. Butcher - these are amazing.
You know? Is it possible for it to be Lasciel? I mean she was a major(I thought she was major) to Harry's development.
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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 27, 2011, 08:42:28 AM »Does anyone got any idea about the familiar female voice at the end of Changes? It didn't seems to got that answer from reading ghost story. Or is that still not yet answered yet? Or maybe I miss something. The best candidate as far as I can gather from reading Ghost Story is Mab, and I really doubted it.
Why do you doubt it? I mean its awfully reasonable
. I think its his mother, personally, because the amulet that showed Harry the Ways back in Changes held her voice. Though its possible that its Lea, since she is Winter and instructed to take care of Harry(or his body).
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GS Book Club / Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: July 27, 2011, 04:48:19 AM »what do you guys think about the ending? Some reason it didn't leave me excited for the next book. I'm glad he's alive and all back as the winter knight but what's the whole ordeal of the demonreach and mab? It barely left room for a suspense moment but saying stuff has to be done for the court. Seems like it could of ended in a more dramatic mind thinking matter then that.
I can understand how you feel, but for me it literally made me like cry out in rage in Panda Express cause I was like "noooo I want to see whats next!" (no joke i finished it like 15minutes after class in Panda). I feel that the whole revelation that he has a CHOICE to do whatever and not even MAB can take that away from him was a really great conclusion. It shows that Harry will still be himself, but be in a greater position of power to act against whoever his enemies may be (preferably the Black Council).
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