Thematically, I like it.

From what I understand of Christian mythology, no one, not even Satan himself is beyond redemption. Seems to think that a Denarian would be the same way.

However I don't think the Denarians were the casual Satan supporters, I believe it is mentioned that they were all members of the army, and high ranking ones at that

I still agree that even they can be redeemed, but I would not qualify any of them in the Innocent Bystander category. However, there is an issue of power level.

DFRPG makes it quite clear that mortals have CHOICE and monsters have their NATURE, and that having more POWER makes you a MONSTER.

Denarians have ALOT of power and therefor are monsters and are therefore driven by their nature. Any Denarian who would want to switch should likely give up ALOT of power, if only because they no longer will be drawing upon Hellfire, and likely no angelic force is gonna let them back into the pool of soulfire just yet.

Also, if you had a theoretical "good" Denarian with all it's powers it would essentially destroy the entire purpose of the Denarian metaphor. Just like the ONE RING, it's a metaphor for what having great power does to the human mind. It subverts it and changes it to it's whim, if the all powerful coin your character keeps relying on ISN'T slowly corrupting his mind, then you have given him a super weapon for free.

I guess I am asking, why are you putting a good Denarian in a game? Is it for an interesting story idea about redemption and repentance? Good, I'd say tone down the power and makes it like a Bob The Skull kind of thing. Is it to get around the drawback of having full Denarian power? Then I think it's lame!

One final note, People have suggested they are lying, I believe they are telling the truth. Harry knows it too, but Harry sees down the line, It's a TRAP! He will rely on the power and then the price goes up steeply and the fallen has a little more control. And you won't be able to TRULY know you can trust them until it's too late and they all ready control you. They are drug dealers! The first hit is free, it's the following ones that you REALLY have to pay for!

With that 'need' being defined by the inscrutable power of God (the GM)

Hence the GM's ability to create and destroy game balance by their very whim!

is absolutely indistinguishable from leaving the matter to taking no action whatsoever, as the only way to distinguish a granted prayer from a declined prayer is by waiting for the opportunity for intervention to pass.

Except in game terms where True Believers have the ability to say a prayer and then roll Conviction for ANYTHING! Then the success or failure is dependent upon the roll of the Dice or the Whim of the GM!

Contacts Roll.... get me a damned Knight of the Cross!

When their arrival is arranged by 'coincidence' or 'feeling', they don't generally get the opportunity to call ahead.

Hey, Same difference to me so long at they are there!

If they show up, they show up, if they don't, they don't.

And either way the GM's job is to provide an interesting story! If the players are in it to be terrified and unable to defeat a huge monster then that's awesome for them! Don't let ANYTHING I say get in the way of your fun guys! But if not, someone needs a way to get rid of that evil dude!

To me, when someone is giving themselves a +0 catch it means that the only time it should really come up is at a dramatic moment that really has meaning to the character.

I think I was trying to say something like that in my post and I lost track in my ramblings... anyway, AGREE! If it shows up AT ALL!

I think that last post pretty well sums up the argument without debating the forest for the trees. Denarians and Knights are a bad example case because they have a divine intervention thing built into back story.

For me it comes down to ARE THE PLAYERS HAVING FUN. If they really are then EVERYTHING IS OKAY! If they aren't well maybe it's time to change some things!

From a purely story based perspective, the Knights of the Cross ALWAYS show up where they are needed, and there IS a 1-800 hot line that is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, even holidays, and even for people without access to a phone. It's called prayer.

From a gameplay perspective, having a catch like that on a monster you are throwing at the party should mean that you have a Knight of the cross in your game (as a PC or NPC). Not giving your party access to a Knight of the Cross makes you as much a jerk as does sending faeries to mercilessly stalk your characters then declaring that all the iron in the world has vanished (And actually meaning it, not simply putting it as an interesting angle that your players have to figure out why all the iron in the world is missing and find where it has gone, which would actually make for an interesting idea for a game).

It might be difficult to get a Knight of the Cross to come to your aide, It might be easier to just stock up on mega power and try to smash the thing outright or find some other way around it, but the opportunity is there.

As the GM, you can control or destroy the balance of such by your whim, you can cut the characters off from the item or you could give it to them in abundance. The game can never truly balance for something like that so they stick with +1