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Messages - Steppenwolf

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DFRPG / Re: Invoking Aspects On Others: The "Interaction" Requirement
« on: March 15, 2011, 01:29:45 AM »
  I saw a combat example in which someone Invoked a villain's "Crushed Ribcage" consequence from across the room to make him stumble during his escape; no interaction there, either.  Ditto on invoking "Building on Fire" to make a ceiling collapse and block an exit -- I can't even imagine how you'd interact with that aspect.


In fact they are bad examples. The requirement is the character must be part of the invoke or the compel.
In  other words Compelling players must use their own characters to trigger the compel.
They cannot use Compel like GM does.

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DFRPG / Re: [Fate] Dresden Files
« on: March 11, 2011, 01:35:45 AM »
Yes, sorry. That was my point.
Actions are simultaneous and so it' s perfectly regular to put up an auction of FPs.

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DFRPG / Re: AOE Spell manuevers?
« on: March 11, 2011, 12:55:08 AM »
YS105:
Quote
There are several ways you can gain access to an aspect that is on another character or scene:

Inflict a consequence

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DFRPG / Re: AOE Spell manuevers?
« on: March 11, 2011, 12:41:21 AM »
Yes, Consequences are aspects which can be tagged
And no, you don't need any assessment. Consequences are usually known

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DFRPG / Re: [Fate] Dresden Files
« on: March 10, 2011, 10:22:01 PM »
In case of an attack, the attacker starts, and then locks the results. After that the defender rolls and locks the results. A conflict can be seen, from the “attackers” point-of-view, as an apposed roll without knowing the target number (i.e. the defense roll has not been made at the time of the attack). I would use the same way of thinking in case the player would roll against a fixed, but unknown, target number.

Starting from the proposition I've underlined you should roll the defense roll before the attacker makes his own roll, just like when a character is trying to undertake a simple action: the GM decides the difficulty in advance, then the player rolls and use any aspects he wants.

However the rules are the following:
Quote
YS200:An attack is always rolled as a contest between the character (the attacker) and the opponent  (the defender).
Quote
YS207:Against an opponent, a maneuver is performed much like an attack—you roll an appropriate skill  against the opponent and try to beat the opponent’s defense roll.
Quote
YS193: Contests are much like simple actions, except the action is directly opposed by someone else and is easily resolved one way or another. Rather than setting a difficulty, each party rolls the appropriate skill, and the outcome is resolved as if the high roll had beaten a difficulty equal to the low roll.
Emphasis (underlined words) is mine.

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DFRPG / Re: [Fate] Dresden Files
« on: March 10, 2011, 09:07:28 PM »


Please also note that once you have invoked an aspect to add +2, you are not allowed to re-roll, as the rules say that “Add two (+2) to the final die roll (after any rerolls have been done)”.


The rules are just pointing out that the fixed bonus is added to the final roll. They aren't forbidding to reroll after you invoke for a +2.
You can roll --++ , invoke for a +2 then invoke for a reroll and so on. Simply, the total +X is summed to the last roll.

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DFRPG / Re: [Fate] Dresden Files
« on: March 10, 2011, 09:03:00 AM »
Second: Conflict timming.

Lets asumme im in conflikt with NPC. We roll the dice. I used Aspect to get reroll/+2 so NPC do it too. So we can do it again and again?

Ie.
P: rolled + + - -
GM: rolled - - + +
P: I use 1 Aspect (descritpion)
GM: I use 1 Aspect (descritpion)
P: I use 2 Aspect (descritpion)
GM: I use 2 Aspect...
so on.

Yes, remembering that:
  • a player can use the same aspect only once per roll. I emphasized because the other player(s) can use the same aspect.
  • the aspect must be appropriate
  • you need to have the necessary Fate Points, unless you are tagging

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Well if healing is meant to just speeding up the natural process of recovery I see no Lawbreaking.

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DFRPG / Re: Giving teeth to enforcement of The Laws
« on: March 03, 2011, 08:29:51 AM »
Once the dice are rolled, a taken out result is in the hands of the attacker.  The attacker can narrate any reasonable result he chooses.  I would argue that dropping a nuclear bomb on a city then narrating how everyone woke up with severe burns and massive headaches but unlimately recovered would not qualify as reasonable.  Likewise, setting off a force 12 flame burst attack in a crowd would not reasonably result in universal heavy tans and mild concussions.  But within reason, the attacker controls the story.


I think a flaw of the whole discussion is we have forgot that intent precedes the mechanics.

Players, IMHO, should never state: "I use a force 12 flame burst attack" but the whole discussion should be like the following:
Player: "I'm going to take out the whole crowd with a <element> spell"
GM:"What kind of spell?"
P:"<reasonable method to use non-lethal force>"
G:"Ok! This is an attack spell 'cause your aim is to incapacitate them. How many shifts?"
etc.etc.

From this perspective, all becomes simpler.

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DFRPG / Re: Giving teeth to enforcement of The Laws
« on: March 03, 2011, 07:48:40 AM »

Regarding refusal of concession, the attacker does not have a flat-out right to refuse.  Rather, the group has the right to decide that the concession is unreasonable, generally on the basis that it goes too easy on the conceeding character.  The attacker would need to come up with a convincing reason that having the target die is an unreasonable result of their action.


Well Concessions should be unanimously accepted, so also by the attacker.
Besides, the spirit of Concessions is to lessen the potential effects of the take out, not to increase them.
Using a Concession, to kill the character doing it, is just a bad twisting of that spirit.

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DFRPG / Re: Compels, Accidental Killings and the 1st law
« on: March 03, 2011, 02:23:31 AM »
In this case he simply negotiate the fact the warehouse is burning but none is going to die. Perhaps the fire was extinguished by an automatic system, or perhaps the fire attracts the attentions of autorithies (like you said) or the other thugs outside.

However, when the player has no FPs, how do you compel him?

Edit after Richard's post:
this was my point.
If you choose to let you be prone to your aspects, this is a player's choice.

And, I can't help to stress this point, it's an aesthetic choice which must be made in advance by the whole group.

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DFRPG / Re: Compels, Accidental Killings and the 1st law
« on: March 03, 2011, 02:07:03 AM »
As a general thought, sometimes you got only one safe way to handle the situations because your preceding choices brought you to that point.

In some cases you can reasonably negotiate some other outcomes, in other cases there are only complicating ones.
However if we stick with my example, the compel is made to make the things more interesting.
And it can lead to other scenes.
Perhaps you have save a thug who gives some hints about the BBG.

13
DFRPG / Re: Giving teeth to enforcement of The Laws
« on: March 03, 2011, 01:14:13 AM »
But in the situation where the character has only one refresh it isn't a choice, that's what I'm saying.  A compel should ALWAYS be a choice (saving of course those situations where the character is without Fate chips).  When you're giving the player the choice of 'Save the thugs or become an NPC' what you're really doing is railroading them into saving the thugs.

I opened another topic cause in this one:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24566.0.html

Otherwise we risk dogpiling.

About Reasonable the answer is simply: what is reasonable for your group.

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DFRPG / Compels, Accidental Killings and the 1st law
« on: March 03, 2011, 01:13:04 AM »
I said:
Nope, cause the thugs are not dead yet.
You are giving him a choice to save them, extinguishing the fire.

This can bring to interesting situations:
let's suppose the BBG is escaping with the MCGuffin and the main purpose of the thugs is to let him put a safe distance between the wizard and him (and the not-so-secondary purpose to end the PC's miserable life).

Do the character choose to run after the BBG and to be a LawBreaker or to save the thugs and his soul, but giving the BBG an advantage?


But in the situation where the character has only one refresh it isn't a choice, that's what I'm saying.  A compel should ALWAYS be a choice (saving of course those situations where the character is without Fate chips).  When you're giving the player the choice of 'Save the thugs or become an NPC' what you're really doing is railroading them into saving the thugs.

Ok, let's start this one.
First of all, Player chose that Aspect, so he was expecting that some building could catch fire.
Then Player chose to put himself in situation which could bring in a Compel and to accept the Compel itself (unless of course he was short on FPs).

The building is on fire for his character's fault, it's up to the character to put remedy to the situation. He can just use a water spell to extinguish the fire and call the firefighters and taking some Stress for the spell.
It's not railroading, it's a situation based on player's choices. And probably a situation in which the player would like to be: repairing his mistakes and making his life harder because of his faults.
(and if the McGuffin is really important this can award a second FP to the character).

Moreover, if you put a band of thugs in front of a 1-refresh wizard, you are already forcing him to not use lethal magic. Why don't spice up things?

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DFRPG / Re: Giving teeth to enforcement of The Laws
« on: March 03, 2011, 12:42:39 AM »
Right, and in that situation you're now telling your player "Ok, so despite there not being a real rule about it I've decided to make your character an NPC because you have this aspect' (or alternatively "Ok, so now because you have this aspect give me a fate chip or your can't play your character anymore").

I think that may way is much less likely to cause your players to quit the game in a rage.

Nope, cause the thugs are not dead yet.
You are giving him a choice to save them, extinguishing the fire.

This can bring to interesting situations:
let's suppose the BBG is escaping with the MCGuffin and the main purpose of the thugs is to let him put a safe distance between the wizard and him (and the not-so-secondary purpose to end the PC's miserable life).

Do the character choose to run after the BBG and to be a LawBreaker or to save the thugs and his soul, but giving the BBG an advantage?

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