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Messages - Funge

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1
DFRPG / Re: Aspects Workshop
« on: February 12, 2011, 09:56:01 PM »
If a player is often buying out of difficulties from a particular aspect, that's probably a sign they actually don't like it.  Someone trying to play a Harry-like character might just enjoy keeping his tongue in check a lot in an actual game, or maybe just prefers blowing Winter to smithereens rather than having deals with them.  When something like that comes up, it is a good idea to sit down with the player, look at those aspects, and figure out what they might be replaced with that he would enjoy.

Negotiation sounds all right, and I'm fine with the intent of the character's aspects.  I love getting him into those types of trouble.  I'm mostly just trying to make sure the aspects function well for that, which is where I run into confusion regarding the metagame compels and especially self-compels regarding same.  (See my last post above.)

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DFRPG / Re: Aspects Workshop
« on: February 12, 2011, 09:36:10 PM »
I don't think there's a need to differentiate between Compels that are about what the character does and those about what the Character is. Compels are always between player and GM, even when the GM is compelling a character behavior. Compels that present Characters with complicated situations based on their Aspects can be an awesome driver of the story. And yes, the player has the option of buying them off. Is it lame to buy off a compel like the one you present about being blackmailed? Sometimes. But Compels are where Fate GMs share story control with the players. Is that always easy and flawlessly executed? No. Do players and GMs sometimes have different ideas about where the fun lies? Sure. Sometimes you throw out a Compel and it fizzles, so you move on to the next one until something pops. But the question in my mind is if everyone agrees that it is truly lame to buy off the Compel, why is the player buying it off?

OK.  With you so far.  I don't actually have too much a problem with this side of the metagamed compel equation.  If we're using this sort of compel in the game, I can be offered a fate point by the GM to accept a situation (or we can negotiate it).  But what still gets me is the realm of self compels.  If I see a story-related dilemma pop up that looks like a consequence of my character's defining points, in other words one of his aspects, do I push for a fate point?  That just seems weird to me, and I don't see myself doing it.  Should I be?

If some bruisers show up, sent by someone I pissed off last session because of my Smart Mouth aspect, do I try to claim it as a compel?  Do you GMs out there run things like that, or would that annoy you?

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DFRPG / Re: Aspects Workshop
« on: February 11, 2011, 10:39:11 PM »
In the aspect suggestions that you said did not have a choice, there is still a choice there.  For instance, if someone came looking for Marty, you could hide.

Take this one for example, then:  He could be fairly easily blackmailed since he plays both sides.  If there is a choice involved here, it is definitely on the metagame level.  The player can maybe opt out of being blackmailed, but as the book points out, it's kind of lame just to shoot down some story bits.  The only options I see on the character level still involve his life getting seriously complicated, which is still compel-worthy.  And even on the meta level, the difference between what's a compel and what's just story is hazy at best.

Sorry, I've got more to say, but have to run off to work.

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DFRPG / Re: Aspects Workshop
« on: February 11, 2011, 09:49:21 PM »
Personally, before I was even giving my own players Milestones, I authorized an across-the-board character retooling to revisit Aspects, as well rote spells which had become broken once we developed a more clear understanding of the rules.

That's pretty much what I'm looking for.  I'd misremembered minor milestones as being once every few sessions.  Being able to alter an aspect every session(-ish) isn't too bad.

Have you dealt with what the book calls "GM-driven compels" or "scene-starter" compels on YS101-102?  Those are still baking my noodle.

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DFRPG / Re: Aspects Workshop
« on: February 11, 2011, 09:43:57 PM »
Even going by the rules you can probably retroactively switch out two aspects.  We've hit two milestones.

I was not aware that you just wanted to change aspects though.  Otherwise I would not have spent over an hour coming up with the list up there ^^^.  :/

I used the second milestone's minor benefits to trade out a point of refresh for a new stunt, but I guess I'd have one retroactively.  I still don't see any reason for the limitation, or at least not one that couldn't be solved by a sentence in the book reading something like, "Just don't switch aspects because you decided you suddenly wanted an advantage or an opportunity for a compel."

But no, I don't just want to change aspects at all.  Ideally I'd keep these; your list is ridiculously helpful.  But I still don't understand how the no-character-choice compels function, or even how they'd be defined.

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DFRPG / Re: Aspects Workshop
« on: February 11, 2011, 09:34:26 PM »
Quote from: BumblingBear
What?  No love for the Bear?

Hold your horses!

I am going to take this to mean you could use some help coming up with ways to use the ones you've got.

I obviously cannot answer the other game questions you've asked, so I will just start in on the aspect stuff.

This is just what I'm looking for.  Some don't quite work due to character/history reasons, but a lot of that is just pure spun gold.

Others still fall within the category of compels that don't involve a character choice, and those still go over my head.  Most of the compels under "The Authorities Like Me" are like that:

The Authorities Like Me
Compels:
  • May be contacted to be a consultant on cases
  • When law enforcement is around, they know who he is and he has to act proper
  • He may want to lay off a case or walk away rather than risk his reputation
  • Since the authorities like him, ruffians may not
  • He could be fairly easily blackmailed since he plays both sides
  • He may owe favors to cops that he cannot ignore
  • Since he is so well known, people could go to him for help
  • It could be awkward if he were seen with certain kinds of people
  • Every agency in town probably has his fingerprints on record
  • Me may have authorities looking for him fairly often
  • Some authorities may like him since he could be a convenient fall guy

Acting proper around the authorities and walking away from a case both leave him a choice, and maybe favors for cops or people going to him for help too.  But the rest of them involve player choice only, at best.

Let me take as an example that he "may have authorities looking for him fairly often."  I figure this is the sort of game where that's going to happen one way or another, whether or not I have that aspect.  So if the cops show up at my door and the GM proffers a fate point, asking me if maybe I've got a handgun in plain sight, I take the fate point and say I do or I hand over a fate point of mine and say no.  I understand that.  But if the cops show up and knock under similarly awkward circumstances (or they're just straight up here to arrest me), do I push for a fate point, claiming that as a compel?  This is my primary sticking point.  Because trouble is going to happen to the PCs all the time, just as a natural part of pretty much any roleplaying game.  Where does it stop being just story and start being a compel?

Take this compel, from Marty's High Concept Aspect:  "You have to play nice with terrible people - can't offend contacts."  That's perfect.  So in the game, Marty finds himself in the vicinity of a horrible crime scene and a violent criminal who's also Marty's client.  Sirens are approaching.  Could the fact that Marty stuck around, calmed the gangster down, and talked to the cops for him have garnered me a fate point?  Could I have claimed one even if Marty ran, because he was involved anyhow and the cops were coming?  It obviously would have complicated his life one way or another.

What I'm asking is at what point do things like that, that were frankly going to happen anyway, stop being just story and start being compels worthy of a fate point?

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DFRPG / Re: Aspects Workshop
« on: February 11, 2011, 08:53:47 PM »
Real quick, before I get to the rest of it:

Plus, you can't really change aspects until we get milestones anyway so it's good to learn to make do.

That's why I asked Ian in a recent email if we could deal with any less-than-stellar aspects by changing them at this point, fairly early on.  I didn't get a response to that part of it, though.

Bluntly, this rule is silly.  If you're playing with, say, four bad aspects that won't generate compels or won't come into play often enough to get invoked, it's ridiculous to make you waste milestone benefits on altering aspects and to wait something like ten sessions to fix everything.  And I do mean "fix."  If your aspects aren't working for you, they're broken.  You are not going to be as involved in the story as you should be, and if you're not involved in the story, you won't be having much fun.  Furthermore, whether or not an aspect works for you can depend very largely on the campaign or on the GM.  Since you're creating your character before the game, these are likely unknowns to an extent.  So in other words, you find that an aspect that would have been fine under different circumstances proves, in play, to be useless, or at least to need altering.  Have fun waiting a few sessions before you can fix it.

Aspects are the lifeblood of this game.  Without them, it's just FUDGE.  If we can't fix what's broken with them when we need to, the game is not firing on all cylinders.  I understand you wouldn't want players altering their aspects whenever it suits them to get an unfair advantage in-game.  A werewolf walks in the room and suddenly you've got the "I Kill Werewolves" aspect.  Avoiding that is good.  But if that sort of thing obviously isn't what you're going for, why is the game stopping you from making the story better?

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DFRPG / Re: Aspects Workshop
« on: February 11, 2011, 08:23:10 PM »
My thoughts anyhow.  Hope they are helpful.

Very much so, thank you.  The bits about chasing after the blackmailer and owing favors to the supernatural community are especially appropriate.  I'd be interested in any thoughts you have about the paragraph in my first post concerning the compels that don't involve character choice.  This part:

Quote
Those last couple bring up a question I have about aspects.  The book suggests, in the "GM-driven compels" section on YS101-102, that sometimes there will be plot complication compels that don't really involve character choices.  The example given is that the PC's brother shows up beaten and bloody on the PC's doorstep.  Being a compel, there is a PLAYER choice involved--the example has the player spend a fate point to avoid the compel and call an ambulance to go deal with more pressing matters.  But how often does a situation like this crop up in someone's game not in the form of a compel?  Dramatic things happen constantly in games, and I'd think it would feel strange to present them in the form of compels.  In other words, I'm not quite understanding how one would utilize compels that don't involve character choice.  Here's a fate point to get your character to do something appropriately stupid makes sense, but here's a fate point for something to happen TO you doesn't to me.  Anybody have experience doing things this way?  And if so, how do you distinguish between compels of this sort and story-driven drama at the table?

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DFRPG / Aspects Workshop
« on: February 11, 2011, 10:52:13 AM »
So I've recently started playing in a game, and am coming to realize I'm not quite happy with my PC's aspects.  I thought I'd start a thread where people with similar problems, or those who don't know which aspects to choose in the first place, can go for advice and ideas.  So the idea is to tighten up everyone's aspects for next session, and to have a list of what everyone's aspects are for each player in addition to the GM.  That way, especially in a group with eight PCs, everyone can keep an eye on potential compels during any given scene, and it gives the players not directly involved in a scene a little influence.

So the character is a  go-to guy for the supernatural and the less-than-legal sets.  If you need something, he knows a guy who can get it.  Here's what I have right now.  Any good ideas for potential compels or what the aspects can be invoked for?  Also, does anything seem too broad or too narrow?

Marty Holbrook

High Concept:
Miami's Shadiest Clued-In Fixer
Invoke:  With the fixer part, I'd say bribery, hobnobbing with the powerful, having access to somebody most wouldn't, coasting on his reputation, convincing someone he can help them out of a jam, finding people to do what he needs done, and so on.  With the clued-in part, it's helpful with making inroads into the supernatural community or helping out with Lore rolls.  With "shadiest," it's good for fitting in with lowlifes.
Compel:  This one's maybe a little tougher.  I see possibilities with the "shady" part of the aspect.  If Marty's trying to actually fit in with high society or with actual decent people, it could be used to get him to come across as slimy.  A more obvious route is with people coming to him for help making bad things go away.  "I heard you can make the ghosts go away," that sort of thing.  The aspect implies a certain level of infamy, as well.  So perhaps a compel when someone too violent or powerful for Marty to handle comes calling, wanting a favor?

Those last couple bring up a question I have about aspects.  The book suggests, in the "GM-driven compels" section on YS101-102, that sometimes there will be plot complication compels that don't really involve character choices.  The example given is that the PC's brother shows up beaten and bloody on the PC's doorstep.  Being a compel, there is a PLAYER choice involved--the example has the player spend a fate point to avoid the compel and call an ambulance to go deal with more pressing matters.  But how often does a situation like this crop up in someone's game not in the form of a compel?  Dramatic things happen constantly in games, and I'd think it would feel strange to present them in the form of compels.  In other words, I'm not quite understanding how one would utilize compels that don't involve character choice.  Here's a fate point to get your character to do something appropriately stupid makes sense, but here's a fate point for something to happen TO you doesn't to me.  Anybody have experience doing things this way?  And if so, how do you distinguish between compels of this sort and story-driven drama at the table?

Trouble:
A Vodoun Blackmailer Has My Number
I haven't worked out the details I really need to, but Marty knows his blackmailer is knee-deep in voodoo, but doesn't know who it is.  The idea is that this corrupts him.  He has a shady side job, but works with an ostensibly beneficial organization righting supernatural wrongs in the city.  Meanwhile, his blackmailer occasionally wants favors and sometimes these favors conflict with what Marty's trying to get done.
Invoke:  Help with being two-faced?  Certainly help with trying to figure out who's blackmailing him.  Good for dealing with stress?
Compel:  To have Marty work at cross-purposes to anything good he's trying to do, but this only really works if Marty has demands from his blackmailer.  If I'm going to keep this aspect approximately as-is, I'll have to make these needs very explicit to the GM.
I've considered replacing this one with a trouble aspect that is more personality-based and less situational, and that will come up more often.  "I'm Smart, But My Mouth's Smarter" below might qualify, as would "I Got This."

Other Aspects:
Surely We Can Talk About This
Invoke:  Pretty versatile.  Getting him out of trouble when guns show up, when horrible supernatural beasties show up, or when his mom shows up.  He's good at talking, and not so good with the fighting.
Compel:  Good for getting him to try talking when he really should be running or shooting or screaming or maybe all three.  This one came up last session when I self-compelled to try and talk to the hollowed-out animated skin of a former client.  Also good for making a nuisance of himself when he's tried talking and failed or has been thoroughly dismissed.

I Know A Guy.  With Horns.
This was intended to illustrate Marty's contacts across a wide spectrum, but especially regarding the supernatural.
Invoke:  Dealing with the supernatural, knowing someone who knows something about the weird, being unfazed in the face of paranormal craziness or being prepared for supernatural capabilities or troubles.
Compel:  I though about Marty's infamy making him a sort of supernatural shitstorm magnet, but that runs into the problem I outlined above.  There isn't much character choice involved.  This is the aspect I'm having the most trouble with.  Any suggestions for compels?  Or for an improved aspect?

I'm Smart, But My Mouth's Smarter
Invoke:  Getting someone's goat, getting noticed in a social setting, seduction, winning friends and influencing people.
Compel:  The troublesome side of this one's pretty obvious.  Saying a smart-assed thing when he really shouldn't.  Angering the influential.  Getting punched in a bar for some snide quip.  Failing to win friends and influence people.

The Authorities Like Me
Invoke:  Dealing with the police or the feds, mostly.  Getting bribes into the right hands and keeping them out of the ones that might take it the wrong way.  Avoiding red tape.  Maybe awareness of police procedure?  Contact rolls within departments.
Compel:  My idea for the negative side was a different interpretation of the words.  "Detective Mills, you like Marty Holbrook for the perp on this kidnapping job?"  "Oh, you bet I do."  But that runs into the same problems above.  There's not really much choice involved.  It's just the authorities coming after Marty.  Ways to avoid that problem might include compelling to get him to voluntarily interact with cops he really shouldn't, confident he'll be fine.  Hey there, Detective Mills!  "Hi.  Uhh, is that blood on your shoe, Holbrook?"  But this aspect could use some serious tightening up.

I Got This
Marty's cocky.
Invoke:  Dealing with situations where he finds himself in over his head or when he finds himself acting alone, confident he can handle it.
Compel:  Overconfidence takes its toll.  Going it alone when he should ask for help.  Taking aim at some horrible monstrosity when he should really be running.
Also, I Got This could make a nice replacement Trouble aspect.

Anyone with similar aspect trouble feel free to post here.  And any help would be mighty appreciated.

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DFRPG / Re: Miami; the Makeshift Mermaid and other Yarns
« on: February 09, 2011, 10:01:03 AM »
There was a part where Captain America is fighting some guy, and getting beat the shit out of. The bad guy says "Just surrender and I'll let you live"
to which Cap says

It says "Surrender, what do you think this A stands for FRANCE?!" he then cuts the dude in half with his shield. Bad ass.

And then there was this other time...

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DFRPG / Re: Miami; the Makeshift Mermaid and other Yarns
« on: February 09, 2011, 05:22:01 AM »




Things I learned today:

1)  Mr. T shits diamonds.

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DFRPG / Re: Miami; the Makeshift Mermaid and other Yarns
« on: February 07, 2011, 08:12:14 PM »
I thought of this, when it came to Marty


Hollowed-out superhuman flesh balloon on a rampage?  I'm sure we can have a rational discussion about this like adults.  Hug it out, maybe.

Also, can't stop laughing about handegg.

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DFRPG / Re: Miami; the Makeshift Mermaid and other Yarns
« on: February 07, 2011, 11:22:29 AM »
Hey yall, thanks for understanding as i bailed to watch the superbowl today. Jen (my wife) and I are both football fans and have been waiting for today and we had a blast watching it together. Next time yall are over, she perfected a TON of finger foods and she said if i was nice she would make it next time we played at my pad.

No problem.  I think everybody realizes we're the outliers when it comes to giving a shit about the Super Bowl.  But you missed some fun.  I'll try and have a recap up in the next few days.

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DFRPG / Re: Miami; the Makeshift Mermaid and other Yarns
« on: February 05, 2011, 10:43:13 PM »
Ian, reading more about declarations made me realize one of my stunts is useless.  My "I Hear Vampires Taste Like Strawberries" stunt basically allows me to do something anyone can already do, e.g. make a declaration where appropriate with a successful roll on Lore.  Can I either switch that out for another stunt or get the wasted point of refresh back before the next session?

Also, you mentioned in email that as of the end of last session, we've achieved a significant milestone.  Should we apply any changes before tomorrow?

15
DFRPG / Re: Miami; the Makeshift Mermaid and other Yarns
« on: February 05, 2011, 09:33:31 PM »
It's not Dresden Files specific, but a game designer named Adam Jury compiled a very short version of the FATE rules here.  It's in the form of a two-page (!) PDF.

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