I'm curious about how the balance of these two custom powers work out compared to each other and compared to Channeling or just wielding a mundane weapon.

Natural Weaponry: https://dfrpg-resources.paranetonline.com/index.php?title=Natural_Weaponry

Supernatural Martial Arts: https://dfrpg-resources.paranetonline.com/index.php?title=Supernatural_Martial_Arts

First off, a baseline of comparison: a character using Weapons or Guns to attack can roll at skill X with a Weapon rating of 2 or 3, with no Refresh invested. The Gun user has range. The Weapons skill user can parry. Etc. They could also buy Stunts for various side benefits.

By comparison, Fists is fairly weak at baseline, because it lacks a Weapon rating, though it has the small advantage that you can never be deprived of your weapon. The other big thing Fists has going for it is the Footwork stunt, so you don't need to invest as much in Athletics.

Now, what can various powers do for you?

Natural Weaponry: For 1 Refresh, you get Weapon:2 for your Fists. That basically brings you up to par with Weapons skill users. You're still behind, though, because you had to take a power and spend Refresh to get there. With 2 Refresh spent, you can upgrade to Weapon:4 OR get 3-zone range and access to spray attacks. Either option puts you a bit ahead of a baseline Weapons skill user, but still behind a Weapons or Guns user who spent 2 Refresh on relevant stunts or powers.

Supernatural Martial Arts: For 1 Refresh, you get the ability to take Mental Stress to empower your Fists attacks (or defenses) in various ways. You can get +1 to your attack roll, +2 shifts of damage, or extended range, or take more stress to apply multiple effects on the same attack. This lets you fight as well as or a bit better than Weapons or Guns users, for a limited number of rounds per fight. It also has some options that Weapons and Guns can't easily replicate, like hitting ghosts or making area attacks. A second point of Refresh gets you more techniques, increasing your versatility but not your raw power.

So, both of these seem decent on paper. Compared to Weapons or Guns users, you get some minor always-on or moderate situational advantages in exchange for a point or two of Refresh (and not being a Pure Mortal). And you can get some further optimization by combining both.

But then I compare those against what you can do with Channeling, and it all feels pointless. For 2 Refresh, you can blast at range for more damage than a Guns user, make spray and area attacks, etc. plus have all the other utility Channeling brings. I can't decide if Natural Weaponry and Supernatural Martial Arts are slightly underpowered, or if Channeling is just way too good, or what. (And yes, I'm familiar with the usual arguments about Channeling's downsides - the skill investment required, filling up your mental stress track, the risk of becoming a Lawbreaker, etc.).

The only other consideration I can think of is that Natural Weaponry and Supernatural Martial Arts can be stacked with a few other Stunts and Powers (such as Strength) to ratchet them up further. But then, you can do similar things with Weapons, or take Refinement for your Channeling to stack more Focus Item bonuses too.

I dunno. Am I missing something in my analysis? Is Fists doomed to be the less optimized option no matter what, and I should just accept that? Any thoughts or input are appreciated.

(I'm gonna cross-post this to Reddit as well.)

Make that 3 votes for conscious intent being required.

That said, if you happened to shapeshift into a cuddly puppy and do the "look what followed me home!" act, I would say that being carried in would count as invited in that case, because the person *knows* they're bringing a puppy inside, even if they don't know what the puppy really is.

I've always treated non-Fae Scions almost exactly the same as Changelings - you have to make a Choice at some point, spending more refresh on powers brings you closer to the Choice, etc. It seems the simplest, most reasonable way to handle these things.

I don't actually have a rules reference for the focus slots being separated. That's just the way that always seemed to make sense to me and the people I've played with. Even if it's just a house rule, I feel that enforcing the split does help encourage a little more variety in how spellcasters are built, but this isn't really the thread to be getting into that whole can of beans.

You've pretty much got the analysis correct. For pure combat power, Discipline outweighs Conviction, and Control bonuses outweigh Power bonuses. If you don't care about versatility and other skills, a submerged build can even have Discipline AND Conviction at 5.

An enchanted-item build is playable, but loses out on versatility by a long shot.

Cowl = Simon is probably the single most sane, rational, and well-supported theory I've seen on these boards. Thanks for laying out the evidence.

This has the potential to be a pretty epic thread and a great resource for theorycrafting.

Here's my contribution:

Fool Moon:

• The Alphas
• Tera West
• MacFinn (the loup-garou)
• Harry having apprentices or mentoring other practitioners (Kim Delaney) (Not really a plot thread per se, but it sets up Molly later)
• Marcone
• Hendricks? (Not sure when he's introduced or what books he's relevant in)
• FBI Agents
• Full Moon Garage lycanthropes
• Murphy and Special Investigations
• Susan (add to Storm Front as well)
• Public notice of the supernatural (Susan's footage on the news, which then disappears)

I played a phoenix themed character once. Terrance Honda was a fairly nasty warlock who died in a fire, yet found himself waking up in the ashes alive again. He felt oddly compelled to make a new start on life as a good person, and found that his former magic had been replaced by a new form of bright fire magic.

Eventually, during the game (I had worked out with the DM that this would happen eventually), Honda discovers that he has been chosen as the Emissary of the Great Phoenix, a somewhat-benevolent fire spirit that wants to basically burn down the whole world so that it can be purified and reborn as something better.

Aspects:
Ignorant Emissary of the Great Phoenix (Eventually we crossed out the word "Ignorant" once the character figured out what was going on).
I Was a Teenage Warlock
I Died in a Fire
Who I Am Hates Who I Was
Burning Brighter
Whose Side am I on, Anyway?

Powers:
Marked By Power
The Sight
Sponsored Magic: Phoenix Fire - The flames of the Great Phoenix are both destructive and purifying. For Evocation, treat as standard Fire magic. For thaumaturgy, exorcism, purification, and other fire-themed spells are appropriate, so long as they match the Great Phoenix's agenda to burn away all the evil in the world (and eventually, the whole world!). These thaumaturgy spells may be done at the speed of Evocation if so desired.