Hmmmmm and how many laws did you break to get that many?

right, but by my read frequency/strength is the equivalent to doing +1 control and +1 complexity for veils or whatever, and that could go on one item

Yes, one focus item could have +1 to both control and complexity
what you can't do is put one at +1 and the other +2

So.. on the enchanted item note...(that can be made with the character that has two refinements into focus item (for crafting) and 2 in enchanted items and a lore 5, and specialization's for crafting as well)

How would you do an enchanted net or something similar? intended as a grapple effect...
So i would have to have a maneuver to place "all tied up" aspect.
But you can't have two different effects on an enchanted item so how do you give it a "might" effect to roll?
I have 9 shifts to work with for this character...

Or would it just be a simpler "block", 6 shifts of block, 3 for duration? Would that have same effect of grapple? just without the extra bonuses?

Unless you're throwing multiple slots into it you can't do 2 different effects with a magic item. So it will all have to be in one.

You could start with page YS293 where they give an example of an 'Entanglement' spell. It's not lethal, but remember you will want to put as many shifts in power as you can to hold your target.

You may in fact be better off doing this as a one time magic item (aka- Potion).

Frequency gives you multiple uses of those as well.  per YS280

Crafting specializations for items and potions
aren’t used for control or complexity; they
usually affect frequency or strength without
making you spend an extra slot to do it.

And in the last paragraph on the same page it talks about boosting the power of a potion on the fly.

You say you have 9 shifts. And you have a 5 Lore.
So the max strength you can put in by default is 5.
This doesn't seem to include crafting bonuses or bonuses from more slots.
(not that I've seen anyway).

And we know that the maximum Effect Strength of an Item (and a potion is still an item) is TWICE your Lore.  (If you're curious it's on the same page just above the example of Harry's 3 slots.)

So your max Strength is 10, but only 5 of it comes from your base. The rest you have to build on with foci, etc...

So I'd put as much into Strength as you could and still get the duration you want.

Then on the fly you may need to boost it some more. (or you may not...who knows).


Hope this helps!!

So after reading the section of the quality of workshops I am a little confused. The Resources skill entry says that the difficulty or complexity is limited by the quality of your workshop. So if I have a Superb Lore, but only a mediocre workshop would I be limited to only +1 complexity thaumaturgy spells? If not what does the Arcane Workspace limit?

This was talked about on another post that I saw. And from everything I've read they are very useful.
(Seriously recommend viewing this post as it has responses from the Developer(s)
The 2 that I have seen responding on the boards are Iago (Fred) and  LCDarkwood (Lenny) )
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,17919.msg807955.html#msg807955
But remember to look at the date on the posts because some changes have occurred and they have
updated and clarified things.


First(Unless I've got everything WRONG)
- They do not take away from your skill.
- What they do is give you the power to make declarations, and invoke aspects to help you meet the complexity of a thaumaturgic ritual.

Specifically 'well stocked workshop','made my own tools', 'crafted symbols for spell', etc....
(Basically whatever you can come up with that is reasonable and you can get your GM to agree with!)

HOWEVER, that being said, under workshop it also states in the rules that the
QUALITY of the item that you can create is capped by the rating of your workshop.

So if you have a workshop rating of 1 you can only make

See page YS320 where it talks about this in some detail.

Those circumstances revolve mainly
around three attendant factors: tools, materials,
and time.

And page YS249 where it goes into 'Tools and Trappings' and page YS312 where it talks
about 'preparation' and how it can increase your difficulty if you DON'T have the tools
(or access to them) that are needed.


Also note that the 'Arcane Workshop' is really just a specialty workshop, which is why it is now
just under 'workshop'. 

Simalarly for the Arcane Library and Sanctum, the arcane library can come into play when doing
research on an adversary, condition, place, ritual, etc....whereas the sanctum can come into play
for special prep, above and beyond what you would normally need.

Rick gives a large list of possible aspects on his blog at http://www.rickneal.ca/?p=639

But it is most certainly not a 'remnant' or useless from a pure numbers standpoint, and
 it can add a lot of 'flavor' and background to your character as well.

It is in point of fact of GREAT USE if you plan on doing a large amount of Thaumaturgy.

You can more easily expect to get your DM to approve those Aspects you want to make your complexity
requirement if you actually HAVE those Libraries, Workshops, and Sanctums!!!

Side note to remember - Thaumaturgic Effects tend to be stationary (per the devs)
and wards must be attached to Thresholds.(Although they are so wonderful to make!!)

And, crafting with Thaumaturgy, Transformation is only a skill check IF you are
doing something that could normally be done with the skill. Full on transmutation...now that
starts racking up the complexity FAST.

So you COULD make some things if you have the raw materials but not have the workshop(s).

Ex: You could have a thaumaturgy ritual mix together all the ingredients
for a cake(if you had the ingredients on hand), then heat the cake batter to bake it,
and then at the end you have a cake, but didn't actually change anything directly with
transformation. ( but you would still have to have the ingredients and such ). And you don't need
to increase any duration, because nothing that you made is being held together by the magic.

This is all just my $0.02 on how I've read the rules and poured over the forums
for the Developer's response to these sorts of questions.

That is how it looks, unless the developers come in and say I am completely off the mark.


Hope this helps someone else.
I know this gave me fits for a couple days tracking it all down
initially since I want to play a Thaumaturgist and NEED ways to get those complexities down!!

Name: Zone of Truth
Type: Spirit Evocation, Block
Power: 5 shifts - 3 for block, 2 to effect the entire zone
Duration: 1 exchange
Area: One zone
Effect: spell creates a block against Deceit that encompasses the entire zone.

As written it would violate the laws.
But....you could avoid that I think if you altered it to instead monitor their vital signs and instead give you
a bonus to detect deceit. Turn it into a 'Magical Lie Detector' instead.

Just my $0.02