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Messages - Dragonshadow

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DFRPG / Re: More Spell help... water
« on: September 22, 2010, 08:24:22 PM »
You basically want to put a sticky aspect on a zone that you immediately tag for free to put up a block on magic. You don't have to get too into the thing with running water shorting out magic here to do it. You could always describe it as an entropy effect on that area targeting magic only. The only potential problem I see for this spell is it'd be kind of hefty. Looks like it would either not be all that strong of a block or it would cost you a lot to get it off. And all you really do is set a minimum target number for any spellcasting roll in that zone. You obviously beat the block if your Discipline roll has a higher difficulty just to get the spell off than the block rating.

The fact that it's a mediocre block that's probably lower than the target Disc. check is the big problem.  Cinematically, the block is a cool concept: you dump an endless bucket of water on the caster's head, and it's going to make it tough for him to cast.  The rules, on the other hand, essentially play this out that if he's already casting a more difficult spell than the block value, he doesn't even notice the block.

So basically someone blasting you in the face with a Super Soaker will make it tough for you to dial a cellphone, but not to perform brain surgery.

I haven't implemented it yet, but am toying with the idea that a block lower than your target difficulty still grants +1 to the difficulty (perhaps to a limit of one or two such blocks for a given action).  It just doesn't make sense for the block not to count at all, but alternatively we don't want to make such a block all powerful that it locks down an unlucky caster in an imbalanced way.

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DFRPG / Re: More Spell help... water
« on: September 17, 2010, 07:48:49 PM »
Problem is, to short circuit a wizard using water, you would have to have a constant stream running over him, like Nick did in DM. Other than that, most you would likely accomplish is him not being able to cast for an exchange or 2, so a block against his discipline would probably be the way to go. As long as he can't overcome the block he won't be able to cast any spells. Sort of like an entropy cloud around him that keeps him from shaping a spell.

dlw32's intent is to ground the magic, and I respect the discussion here regarding the special place water holds in the four elements.  The problem is the rules don't really give it much sovereignty.  The Discipline 4 block sounds good, but most likely the strength of any spell they attempt to cast is probably better than 4 shifts anyway, so they simply have to roll their normal discipline check as if the blocking spell weren't even there.

We're trying to figure out a better way to truly have a "block" in this situation instead of a maneuver, but the maneuver keeps coming up as the better choice.

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DFRPG / Re: Blocks
« on: September 17, 2010, 02:31:17 PM »
It is a very specific feature of blocks, and magic blocks in particular, that they dissapate as soon as something beats one.  In fact, one of the reasons the developers made armor harder to do than blocks was because armor doesn't dissapate from being overcome, while blocks do.

Point taken, but if it wasn't the block that successfully beat the attack, was the block really a factor at all?  And if not, was it really defeated?  To use an example of a spell shield on a defender.  If their agility beats an attack, did the attack even touch the shield?

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DFRPG / Re: Blocks
« on: September 17, 2010, 01:15:23 PM »
So yes, if you can count on being lucky most of the time (or are willing and able to dump Fate into rerolls to make your own luck), then the Block isn't of much use.  I dunno about you, but I'd rather not rely on my (questionable) luck...

That's a fairly compelling argument.

One more question regarding blocks: if you persist a magic block by putting some more shifts into it and someone punches through the block, does the block dissipate or remain?  I can see both sides of that, and am actually more inclined to say it remains.

Assuming the block dissipates, here's an interesting followup question: if your normal defense exceeds the block, but the attacker exceeds your defense, does he also kill the block itself?  In that case especially I'd argue not.

Now if an attacker specifically targetted what was serving as a block...

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DFRPG / Re: Blocks
« on: September 15, 2010, 07:13:57 PM »
First of all thanks to both of you for your replies.

And to expand on example 3, when you cast a spell, you are testing against several different values with a single Discipline roll.  First there's the shifts of power allocated to the spell; if you don't meet or exceed this number the spell will cause backlash/fallout but might still affect the target (albeit as a potentially weaker spell).  In addition to this you need to meet or exceed the difficulty of the spell, which is each a fixed difficulty determined by the GM or a defense roll made by the target.  A Block, as described above, affects that second test only.  This is true whether the Block was a defensive spell cast on the target or an 'offensive' spell cast on the attacker to prevent an action.

I think that might be part of the letdown my group has over blocks.  Effectively, unless it's a super block, your regular check against a particular action will actually be more difficult than the block itself, so it has no cumulative effect or "soak" against the roll.  A 6 strength block sounds tough as heck, but in the case of the Discipline check that's probably going to be fairly average, and if the caster makes his normal, single roll, he's beaten both the backlash check and the targeting check as if the block hadn't been there at all.  Likewise failing the check would also have had nothing to do with the block being there.

It seems the higher the numbers, the more likely it is that a block becomes much less useful than a maneuver.

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DFRPG / Blocks
« on: September 15, 2010, 05:59:28 PM »
Hi folks,

Pardon my asking if this is well-covered ground.  The question came up in our last session about how the block mechanic actually works.  Let's take a couple scenarios:

Scenario 1: defender has a 6 strength block and a dodge of 3.  The incoming attack is at strength 7.  The attack is adjusted down to 1, correct?  (7-6=1).  In that case, the dodge is the lesser defense and doesn't count.  This is straight from page 210 of YW.

Scenario 2: (here's where it gets a bit murky for my group): defender has a 3 point block and a 6 dodge.  The incoming attack is strength 7.  The attack is still adjusted down to 1, correct?  But in this case only the dodge factors into the defense.  Does the block either add anything else to the defense or mitigate the damage in any further way?

Scenario 3: hero casts block 4 against enemy caster's Discipline check.  If the enemy caster has a Disc. check of 6 and rolls a 6, did he succeed or did the block reduce the roll to a 2?  I'm trying to argue that the enemy caster succeeds with the spell at no penalty.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

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