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Messages - Ornithopter

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DFRPG / Re: Imposing consequences?
« on: June 27, 2010, 05:51:31 AM »
Thaumaturgy may offer you something like what you're looking for.  Aspects created through thaumaturgic maneuvers can be sustained using the normal rules for increasing duration, meaning that you could place a sticky aspect on a target and have it last for some significant amount of game time, similar to the way that consequences can take a significant amount of time to remove.

Also, it seems that Thaumaturgy may allow you to choose what consequence the opponent takes, when you have a spell with sufficient shifts that you can force them to take a consequence to avoid being taken out.  An example of this would be the Phobophage Redirection spell.

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DFRPG / Re: Questions about Catches
« on: June 25, 2010, 09:46:16 PM »
Well, to be fair, the example for a +0 for availability is a Sword of the Cross, which are hard to come up with on the spur of the moment also.  I was under the impression that availability and knowledge are really supposed to be separate requirements.

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DFRPG / Questions about Catches
« on: June 25, 2010, 09:22:41 PM »
1. Do we have a canonical mechanical way to determine if one character knows about the Catch of another character/monster type?  Alternatively, suggestions for house rules to handle this?  Some sort of Lore roll?  Maybe require research beforehand?

2. I'm having some trouble with some of the listed Catch values.  Red Court Vampires get a +2, assuming a +1 for knowledge, that would give a +1 for availability for "sunlight, holy stuff; no armor on belly."  Now, sunlight is tricky, but should holy stuff really be just a +1?  You can get holy water at any Catholic church, right?  Also, how do you determine availability for weak point style catches, like the lack of armor on the belly?  Also, for White Court Vampires, I don't understand why the Catch is only a +0.  I understand that True Emotion is supposed to be rare in the Dresdenverse, but is knowledge of the weakness really that hard to come by?

3. When it comes to catches that are weak points, how do you do called shots?  The only example I could find for called shots in the book was a maneuver to place an aspect on the target, like "Hurt Knee", which doesn't seem directly applicable.  Somewhat unrelated question, but could you do a called shot to bypass mundane armor? (e.g. "He's got a Kevlar vest on, so I'll shoot him in the head.")

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DFRPG / Re: Tech
« on: June 23, 2010, 03:25:27 AM »
I think the stereo trick should work.  Similarly, I imagine he could use a (battery-powered) computer inside a circle with one of those laser virtual keyboard things projecting out of it.  Or he could set up a projector/camera thingie inside a circle, and use a system similar to SixthSense, only bigger.  For internet, I'm thinking 4G wireless would be the best bet...

I've spent way too much time thinking about this.

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DFRPG / Re: Considering some Evocation house rules
« on: June 21, 2010, 07:00:58 PM »
One important thing to keep in mind, I think, is that a successful attack doesn't necessarily mean you physically connected with the target at all.

Suppose I'm in a sword duel, and succeed on an attack with 4 shifts. My opponent takes a 4 stress hit. Did I break the skin? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps it was a near miss, or I hit him but it was just a graze, we can't say either way a priori.

Suppose I succeed again with 4 shifts. He takes a moderate or minor consequence, did I break the skin?  That's up to my opponent to decide. Perhaps he twisted his ankle trying to keep up with my fancy footwork on the uneven ground, or is merely extremely fatigued, we can't say.

Suppose I succeed again with 4 shifts, and the opponent is taken out, did I break the skin?  That's up to me to decide. Maybe I slit him open, or maybe I merely disarmed him, knocked him to the ground, and I have my blade at his throat.

At least, that's my interpretation of the mechanics. 

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DFRPG / Re: Considering some Evocation house rules
« on: June 21, 2010, 06:14:41 AM »
* puts on the GM cap my players made me for these specific situations *

If you could explain in real-life physics how to use fire to burn away the oxygen around a persons face without causing second and third degree burns, or worse, then sure, but I can't think of anyway you could do that. Also, there is a looooot of difference between fire and microwaves. That is why the pain gun you mention is controversial and trying to do the same thing with a flame-thrower is not even considered an option. ;)

Well, since we're (presumably) not playing a game about physicists who fight vampires by night, how about I throw out some magi/techno-babble patter and you tell me if it sounds plausible enough to work for Harry?

1. Fire magic grants some ability to control heat flows generally.  An example can be seen from the case where Harry makes a big gout of flame, taking the heat from Lake Michigan in order to freeze a portion of it to run across.  Depending on level of control*, a mage could create fires in the vicinity of a target, but pull enough heat away from the target not to cause lethal burns.

2. As far as I understand it, the microwave gun works on the same basic principle as a microwave oven, you hit water and fat molecules with microwaves, exciting them, causing heat.  Now, in the gun, the heating is supposed to be limited to the outermost part of the skin, decreasing the amount of long term tissue damage.  Again, with sufficient control*, you should be able to use fire magic to create a similar effect.  Also, we may be more willing than the army to see some tissue damage, so long as it isn't lethal.

However, I would like to restate that even without explicitly "less-than-lethal" evocations, I think it should be possible for reasonably creative players to come up with plausible "taken out" results that don't involve killing.

*For the purposes of this discussion, I think it's safe to assume pretty solid control, since here we're talking about evokers who are getting +8 or +10 on their control rolls.

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DFRPG / Re: Considering some Evocation house rules
« on: June 21, 2010, 02:03:30 AM »
You can do it with fire too, or at least I don't see why you couldn't.  Burn out all the oxygen around them, they asphyxiate till they pass out, then give 'em some air.  Or, hit them with quick intense bursts of heat to cause incapacitating pain but minimal tissue damage, like that controversial microwave pain gun the army has now.

Honestly, I still think you should be able to do it with a shotgun.  Maybe they're non-lethally wounded and incapacitated, or they're not even wounded but are under such an intense barrage they are forced to retreat or keep their heads down long enough for you to get away; from my reading of the rules, the player gets to narrate any taken out result they want, as long as it's plausible.

As an extension of that, I don't really even think you need to describe explicitly non-lethal evocation attacks, so long as you can plausibly describe people surviving whatever attack you do throw at them.

Re: The lack of "less-than-lethal" evocations in the source material, I think most of that can be explained by selection bias.  The caster we see the most of is Dresden, who is infamous for his lack of subtlety and control.  Further, non-Dresden non-evil wizards fighting with mortals is probably where you would expect to see the most use of magical "tasers" and I don't recall seeing too many fights like that.


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DFRPG / Re: Considering some Evocation house rules
« on: June 20, 2010, 04:00:17 AM »
After some sessions of play and similar situations I'm with luminos on this one. If you don't want to kill your opponent, then don't hit it with heavy duty stuff, because it is bound to kill someone some day. It is a question of relations. If a Evocation Attack Action is designed to be Weapon: 5 it should be comparable to any other Attack with a Weapon: 5. There is a reason why the wizards of the books only use their aggressive magic (excluding enchanted items like the force rings) when they truly want to hurt some. It's because it is potentially lethal to do so.

I don't know, from my reading of the mechanics, there's nothing saying that you have to kill someone when you "take them out" with a shotgun either.  You always get to dictate the outcome, maybe they pass out from blood loss or shock, maybe they're paralyzed, maybe they're lying on the ground groaning, conscious, but only capable of crawling away.  Perhaps they are largely uninjured, and merely have to retreat under fire, neutralizing them as a threat long enough for you to get away clean.  In a sword duel, you could narrate that they are disarmed, and you have your blade at their throat, drawing a single drop of blood.  It seems to me that you have a great deal of freedom here.

When it comes to evocation specifically, I would imagine that you have even greater freedom.  You use electricity to "taze" somebody, air to sleeper-hold them into unconsciousness, earth to leave them in the bottom of pit, spirit to put them in a trance, etc.  The only real requirement is that your "taken out" result makes narrative sense, which shouldn't be too hard assuming a certain degree of player creativity.

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If you just want incapacitate someone or show somebody who he is up against use other types of actions. Make it a maneuver. A good example is Elaines Mind Fog (YW 299). There are other examples in the book. In my opinion maneuvers are the way to go if you just want to knock somebody unconscious via magic.

Maneuvers are only going to apply aspects, right?  I mean, you could try a compel for them to go to sleep, but that probably won't work against anybody important enough to have fate points, at least not in a combat situation.

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