Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Sabrel

Pages: [1]
1
DFRPG / Re: Artifact vs Artifact.
« on: June 14, 2010, 01:40:18 AM »
Except that Nikodemus wasn't harmed by Michael's attacks. And it was implied in the book that the Knights and the Church didn't know how to kill him.

That is true, and was possibly an oversight by the designers at Evil Hat. However, as currently written, Biff is right. The Noose has a catch, and spending a fate point allows a Sword of the Cross to satisfy the catch of any supernatural defense. There's really no question in straight RAW terms.

2
It's doesn't fit logical consistency, and it flies in the face of multiple situations in the very narrative that provide the basis for this game. The problem is, you're looking at the combat rules purely in a vacuum. The idea that "either both are okay, or neither are" completely ignores the situations surrounding and following combat, which are part of the balancing factors, and I have brought them up several times. A character that turns everything into a physical fight doesn't get off scott free. Very often, he ends up in a much worse situation than if he had just taken his social knocks gracefully.

Of course, a lot of this comes down to GMing style. I am a firm believer that everything within a game needs to maintain an internal logical consistency. It needs to "make sense" so that the players can just make use of common sense (possibly a slightly modified version, but common sense nevertheless) to determine what they can and can't do, and what is a "good idea" and what is a "bad idea" without needing a deep, "crunchy" knowledge of rules mechanics. As far as I am concerned, if a rule has to fall back on "because it's a rule," rather than having an easily plausible in-world explanation for why X can/can't be done, it's a bad rule. It is hard to find such explanations for social situations not being allowed to descend into violence, because it happens a fair amount in the stories, and players can point to that.

Honestly, I like TheMouse's solution of combining things the best, though. Life is rarely cut and dry, in either our universe or the Dresdenverse. Excluding social combat from a fight and versa because "that's not the kind of conflict we're having right now" seems a very artificial shackling. A warlock can throw a mental attack during a fight, why not a social one? It lets a socially strong character potentially hamstring a fighter by tying up consequences in absorbing Social hits when they could otherwise be absorbing Physical damage, and vice versa.

3
DFRPG / Re: Tagging and Invoking questions
« on: June 13, 2010, 08:53:16 PM »
Well, the wording of the rule is:

Quote
Whenever you make a roll to gain access
to or create an aspect, as per the list on page 105,
you may invoke it one time, and one time only, for
free

While you might be able to get really nitpicky and lawyer the wording, I think the spirit of the rule is pretty clear. Whenever you make the effort to discover/create an aspect, your reward is one free use of it. You can give this reward to someone else, but I don't see any reason why someone else should be allowed to steal it just by acting first.

4
Why should it be the other way? Just because you're good at Physical, if someone starts a social conflict, you can just punch them in the face and describe a Taken Out result where they don't have to talk to them?

That's a perfectly allowed course of action in reality. Why not in the game? It is a choice that can carry heavy consequences, but it is an allowed choice.

Violence is the ultimate negotiation. To quote Robert Heinlein, "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any
other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst." With violence as the final potential arbitrator of any situation, what then makes social conflict a plausible option to begin with? There are no arbitrary rules of reality (the game) to force people into social conflict over physical ones so, generally, it is the conventions adopted by society as a whole.

In the Dresdenverse,society, both mortal and supernatural, has adopted various constructs of rules and regulations on when the use of violence is acceptable. Conversely, there are also punishments for individuals who defy those conventions. If someone is giving you too much lip in a bar and you decide to get physical rather than just take the social loss, then bouncers and potentially even bystanders and/or the police are going to get involved. If a wizard is losing a social fight to a WCV and lights him up, unless the vamp gave one of the strictly worded reasons for violence under the Accords, that wizard just committed an act of war to avoid losing one Social conflict. Just for the privilege of switching the mode of the fight to one of his strengths, he's not only going to have a bunch of Whites wanting his head, but probably a fair part of the White Council too.

When you're dealing with potent fae, who's deaths can unbalance nature itself, and wizards that can level city blocks with their death curse, violence outside of tight constraints is something the vast majority of entities is going to find objectionable in the extreme, and they will certainly make that displeasure felt most potently on anarchs that  regularly violate the conventions on combat. So in addition to the hazards of misjudging the combat strength of your social opponent and getting dead rather than simply humiliated, there is also all of the other fallout that comes from talking with your fists all the time. There is no need for a kludge rule fix when in-game consequences already provide heavy deterrent to abuse.

If something is important enough to a character where they are willing to risk all of that to start a fight (or if the character is just dumb or stubborn enough to do it anyway), maybe you should let them, and then let them deal with the consequences of that choice.

Happens to Harry all the time.


5
An absolute prohibition like that really doesn't suit narrative flow very well. By that logic, anyone who is poorly skilled at Physical conflict can nearly infinitely avoid it by making it a Social fight first, and then dictating a Taken Out result that prevents the more physically skilled opponent from ever being able to exercise their strengths. While it is true that fast wits and talk can get you out of a fight often, there are simply times where someone is going to decide your lip is too much and hit you.

There is a prime example of that in Storm Front,
(click to show/hide)

Physical conflicts carry a lot of immediate risk, as well as the potential of long-lasting baggage (like the issues arising from starting a fight in a public place, or taking a swing at a member of an Accord signatory group without valid reason under the Accords), so sensible characters won't often be willing to take a conflict to the Physical just to avoid losing a Social fight, but the option is almost always there.

6
Well technically, being taken out in one branch does not automatically keep one from competing in the other two, as long as at it is logically plausible (being unconscious or dead isn't particularly conducive to social discourse, but being socially humiliated rarely prevents one from throwing a punch).

Since Physical conflicts tend to have the highest immediate stakes (pretty hard to be talked to death, though some of my high school teachers tried really hard), I wouldn't consider the Social conflict "ended" so much as "deferred" while the more immediately dangerous Physical conflict is resolved. Provided participants on both sides survive the fight (via concessions, or whatnot), the Social conflict could resume. Perhaps the defeated Red leader still has some intimidating "I'll get you next time, Gadget" commentary to throw out as he is being hauled off, threats of vengeance against loved ones, and such.

If you're feeling particularly ambitious, the Social conflict could even continue during the Physical conflict, with taunts and mind games and the like.

Fate rules are designed to be heavier on the narrative than the crunchy, so the best answer is probably to find whatever version works best for your group and makes for a fun scene.

7
DFRPG / Re: Who's immune/vulnerable to Red Cout Vamp venom?
« on: June 13, 2010, 03:24:39 AM »
Obviously, they're immune to their own venom. I doubt there is sufficient difference between the venom of X Red and the venom of Y Red where X's immunity to his own venom wouldn't also render Y's venom generally ineffective. It's primarily a hunting tool, so I imagine it would be more geared towards prey than other Reds.

As far as other supernatural folks... It affects wizards, so the basic fact of having some form of "mojo" isn't automatic protection. All of your standard "weres" (normal were, hexen, lycanthrope, and loup) are, for all intents and purposes, normal humans when not making use of their mojo, so I would put them in the same category as wizards. Red venom would whammy them too, at least while they are in their human forms.

Whites are...tricky. They're similar to lycanthropes in the sense of being humans bound to a demon (a rage demon for lycanthropes; a hunger demon for Whites). They're not a completely different species (like Reds) or ambulatory corpses (like Blacks), and they can reproduce with normal humans. Their own powers work similar effects to Red venom, though (particularly for Whites of the Raith bent). I would call them susceptible to the venom, but maybe a bit resistant to it because they are so used to manipulating emotion themselves.

Fairies are probably a no-go. They are the entities of the Nevernever closest to mortals, but they are definitely not mortal beings. Reds feed primarily on humans. Their venom would likely be far too geared towards mortal beings to affect native beings of the Nevernever. Changelings are probably susceptible, though, being part human.

8
DFRPG / Re: Veil fallout
« on: June 06, 2010, 09:31:10 PM »
There could also be unintentional targets for the effect. Perhaps the guards you're trying to ambush get veiled too. Bound to cause a stir when a thug's buddy guarding the door with him suddenly disappears, and now suddenly you have to account for an invisible enemy as well.

Pages: [1]