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Messages - Victim

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1
DFRPG / Re: Is a Pure Mortal viable?
« on: July 09, 2010, 02:41:59 AM »
Stunts tend to be a situational +2.  Fate Points, when spent, are also +2 if you have an aspect.  So unless you plan on using your Stunt more than once per session, probably don't have any aspect that applies (in which case you might want to rethink your stunt purchase), or will need the Stunt AND an invoked aspect to be effective, then buying Stunts is not a good idea.  Just use the Fate Point instead; a flexible +2 is better than a fixed +2.  Don't go crazy on stunts to just spend that refresh - just because you want a master gunslinger doesn't mean you need all the guns stunts. 

Strategic use of Fate points is the most important part of having a huge net refresh.  Scene Aspects can be much more useful for you than other people - anyone can get a tag on something, but most other characters can't really afford to repeatedly invoke things.  Same thing for maneuvers.  Especially when Compel or Invoke for Effect instead for a bonus/reroll, which generally can't be done via tag.  As part of a group, you can compel your friends' aspects to transfer Fate Points to them, or invoke their aspects when they need a bonus.  Compelling over invoking stuff for them is useful for giving them the ammo to resist other compels.  Remember that Aspects, whether via maneuver, inherent, or consequences, basically just sit there unless someone spends a Fate Point to make them real.  If you have a lot of Fate Points, you get to decide what's actually important.  Emphasizing this part of the game in your character puts your guy in a more support role, but it does focus on the unique advantages to being a pure mortal that most other characters aren't going to have.

Note that huge guns, "sticky" aspects as part of equipment (rather dubious mechanically, IMO), etc don't especially help pure mortal characters - they don't have a monopoly on the use of stuff.  Sure, you can make a Pure mortal Gunslinger with 10 points of stunts.  OTOH, you could also be a Changeling and do the same things - but probably a lot more efficiently, since stunts aren't as good as powers.  There's a part Sylph assassin in our game (as an NPC) with Superb Guns as well, but she has enough Speed to go Matrix where mortals go John Woo.  Plus Wings (Flight + ranged attacks vs so many melee primary monsters = :D) and stuff. 

Many powers don't provide advantages to more mental or social challenges - and non combat powers are often dependent on mundane skills to work.  Powered characters can have those skills, yes.  However, in terms of comparative advantage, mortal characters are often better off specializing in those areas.

And hitting monsters with a car is a pretty nice equalizer.

2
DFRPG / Re: Tech
« on: June 24, 2010, 10:28:21 PM »
I think of it as like a circuit.  Your PC has some dust in it.  Too much will impair performance.  Actually have solid crap on your graphics card (or something) can cause a short circuit and break something.

When Harry is really putting his circle through its paces with a summoning, slightly degraded efficiency will end up leading to a failure as the creature tries to break it.  If a few percent off drops the effect below what he needs it to do, then it's as good as nothing (and perhaps more expensive).

3
DFRPG / Re: Regarding base refresh
« on: June 21, 2010, 08:31:46 PM »
"when you reach 0 refresh you are no longer a playable character", such that if you are playing an 8 refresh game, you can only go up to 7 in powers and stunts; after that you would be at a net 0, and therefore non-playable?

Help! :) And thanks!

This.

4
DFRPG / Re: Considering some Evocation house rules
« on: June 20, 2010, 04:30:01 AM »
1. Yeah, wizards can break grapples, that's hardly the only way to beat them.

2. The big mental attack I can think of is Incite Emotion, which is Deceit + 2, and thus very likely to be attacking at 6 or 7 or so, so it's alot worse for anyone you're attacking...and now that I thik on it, probably as scary offensively as Evocation itself, if not more.

3. True enough, but they really do hurt people without Toughness powers more...and Wizards are very much in that category. Pretty much by definition.

4. That's one or two more than a combat focused character actually needs, and fails to cover actual defense rolls that don't cost you your offensive action.

5. I dont necessarily disagree with most of it, but Grevane actually has a Weapon Focus stunt very explicitly.

Argument #6, which you fail to address, is that the Mental Stress cost of Evocation is actually a rather large down-side to having and using it.

1: Sure, magic isn't the only way to break grapples.  But my point is that grappling a wizard is hardly the end of the world.  Some comments here have suggested otherwise.  If the grapple doesn't even have a good chance of blocking one spell, trying for a grapple may not be the best strategy.  OTOH, a really tough monster might find it useful for reducing damage below a critical amount.

2: The wording for the +2 with Incite Emotion seemed to leave open the possibility that it would only apply when placing maneuvers or blocks even after the ability gains the power to make attacks.

But yeah, Incite Emotion with the upgrades is pretty freaking brutal: there are no supernatural mental defense or toughness powers, many otherwise formidable combatants will have weak mental defenses, the power can be subtle, Incite Emotions can help in both physical and social conflicts, and it may have an accuracy bonus.  

Again though, notice the trend, an attack with an inherent bonus to accuracy is very strong for its cost.


3: Yeah, getting ambushed does hurt a lot more if you don't have a toughness power.  However, always on toughness powers don't really seem common in the default character templates and source material.  Red Court Infected have Toughness and Recovery, and Changelings can easily justify them.  But the Catch of cold iron/steel is easy to satisfy purely on accident with mortal weapons.

Also, spellcasters can pick up enchanted items to add armor or a block to address moments of vulnerability like that, or bad luck.  But that's not quite the same topic.

4:  That's true.  That does essentially free up one highish skill.  However, Discipline and Lore do have more non attack use than Fists or Weapons


5:  His stunt only applies to maneuvers, which seems more limited than something that applies to attacks.

6: I didn't address the downside of having limited ammo because it's a legitimate downside.  It's one that you can try to cover to cover with an additional attack skill (maybe around Fair), doing maneuvers or Assessment actions in between shots, or items.  OTOH, grenades or explosives also seem likely to have ammo scarcity.

Still though, I feel that the ability to double the accuracy of other characters (so you essentially never miss AND deal lots of extra damage) is more than worth the downside.  The better your offense, the less you need additional shots.  It's a real drawback, but it's worth living with it.  If you can take a tough enemy or a group in only a few actions, then you don't need to be able to attack dozens of times.

Also, I think there's a potion that can help too.

-------------------

Quote
it will take a minimum of 14 stress to take them out of the fight in one hit.

Starting on page 327, there are some guidelines for how many consequences NPCs should take before being taken out.

While it's theoretically legal to blast a bunch of normal folks with magic and then narrate a non lethal take out result (perhaps the thugs aren't even hit directly - they just flee after witnessing the powerful magic display :) ), it's not even strictly necessary.  An overchanneled block will leave the wizard pretty safe (or lock down the thug's offensive options).  After bubbling up (or turning invisible, etc), the wizard can probably do without direct magic attacks.

IIRC, Elaine's mind fog was almost as illegal as just killing people, so I can't really recommend using it.  :)

Note that my experience has been with our wizard usually being pretty careful about not shooting humans with high power magic, even when it's been to our tactical disadvantage.  Stupid vampire addict acting as a human shield.  :)  It's not like he's been reaping the benefits of player chosen take out results while dosing tons of mortals with chain lightning.

-----------------------------------

An unaddressed benefit is that some evocations can also target Might apparently, granting them another effective accuracy boost besides just raw control bonus.

5
DFRPG / Re: Considering some Evocation house rules
« on: June 18, 2010, 06:12:16 AM »
Okay, we've seen some of the same arguments repeated here.

1.  Grapples: How does a grapple work?  Well, it's basically a block with an extra requirement (that you burn a tag or invoke), but with extra goodies you can inflict as a supplemental action.  A grappled person can still attempt any action to go against the block though, and attacks or spells can break the grapple as well.

So how is that bad for wizards?  Well, it's not.  A spellcaster who acts with 10-11 (like the character in my first post) will be able to blow through even an 8 power block - and thus grapple - reliably.  And with the need to tag for effect instead of bonus, a 6 power grapple seems more likely (5 Might+Inhuman Strength).  Of course, that's with a focus item.  Maybe our grappler uses his supplemental action to impose a Disarmed maneuver to make the wizard drop his blasting rod.  But then the odds are actually even!  Our wrestling monster drops by 1 from the minor action to 7, and the wizard's control sans item is also 7.

The idea that a grappled wizard is totally screwed, while common in the fiction, is not really supported by game mechanics.

A grapple+disarm strategy will also be extremely effective against characters with primary Guns or Weapons.  They won't just lose a bonus when disarmed, they might lose the ability to apply their top relevant skill at all!

2.  Mental attacks screw wizards.

I'll admit that, for their conviction and discipline ratings, a character using evocation is rather vulnerable because they're using up that stress track for their own powers too.

However, that's for characters of the same discipline and conviction skills - which will be quite high for the combat evoker, since those skills determine the power of their magic.  Other characters have less of a reason to buy discipline, so it will probably be lower.  Hence, mental attacks are more likely to hit those characters, and then will hit by a larger margin (thus doing more damage) when they do it.

Someone mentioned a Weapon 4 mental attack.  Let's say our mental attacker gets a 4 on its attack (a +0 roll, with accuracy equal to power).  A 5 Conviction, 4 Discipline wizard defends at 4 from Discipline and has 4 mental stress boxes.  The spellcaster has around a 40ish percent chance to avoid the Great mental attack.  He can absorb a glancing hit with his top stress box.  On a defense roll of -1 to -3, he scrapes by with some stress and mild consequence - which his extra Mild Mental slot can take.  Only on a roll of -4 does he need to suffer a Moderate consequence to avoid being taken out. 

A character prioritizing more conventional combat skills (or anything else besides Discipline and Conviction) might end up with something like 2 Discipline and 1 Conviction.  That's a defense of 2, and 3 mental stress boxes.  Weapon 4 versus 3 stress means that all hits, no matter how minor, will inflict a mild consequence.  Against the same accuracy 4, +0 roll, he needs a 6% chance +3 roll to avoid the attack.  At least a moderate consequence will be suffered on a defense up to and including +0.  On a sucky -4, our guy takes 10 damage and thus requires a Mild AND a Severe (or an Extreme) to remain active.

Is getting hit with a mental attack bad for a spellcaster?  Heck yeah.  But it's worse for someone without the mental defense skills.  And buying a Great Discipline exclusively for mental defense is somewhat expensive (unless you're also using it for Feeding Dependency or something as well).  Anyone can get hammered by high power mental attacks.

3.  Ambushes are great.  Yeah, they are. 

In fact, they're so great they work pretty well against everyone.  The vampire with 6 Stealth from Cloak of Shadows has something like a 2 out of 3 chance to get the drop on someone with Great Alertness - which seems like a pretty high skill.  Most characters don't do so well when they only have a Mediocre defense.  It doesn't seem unreasonable to say that the combat evoker is impacted less than other combat characters, since their base defense skill is probably lower.  Shapechanging type characters (eg, Wereforms) may be especially vulnerable with Human Form, or may just need to spend actions to transform so their early rounds are further disadvantaged. 

4.  All combat ability leaves Jack a dull boy...

Well, not really.  We're talking about a skill set defined by the top 3 of Conviction, Discipline, and Lore.  I'll freely admit that Conviction is kind of bad - especially since an evocation using character will be using up those extra boxes.  Having a bigger total stress can help against 3-4 size hits where having the box is the difference between a consequence or not.  But the guy dealing mental stress to himself probably isn't to have more total available boxes compared to other characters.  Discipline is the skill for mental defense, and can also block Intimidate.  Lore covers knowledge of magic, detection of magical stuff (replacing some uses for Alertness), and your basic rituals.  They have some utility in mental and social conflicts, as well as some knowledge uses.  Most of them are more useful outside a fight than a skill like Guns or Fists.

Also, Evocation is a pretty versatile ability.  You can use it to make area or structure attacks like Craftsmanship, create a shield for Athletics, Veil like Stealth, as well as serving as an attack skill.  The Alertness, Fist/Weapon/Gun, Stealth, Might guy who sneaks up on the wizard, attacks, wins initiative and then grapples is more skill intensive.  At Submerged, a 1/3/3/3/3 skill column leaves the evoker with 1 Great skill open, and then all Good to Fair skills for non combat or secondary combat abilities.  The equivalent at a Great skill cap actually leaves you with a few extra points at 25 points.  Even if the powers I've listed in the OP are technically affordable at the lowest starting level, they don't seem especially appropriate, so I'm not going to worry about the skill structure at that level.

A Conv/Lore/Disc skill apex also works well for thaumaturgy or ritual, which often goes with evocation in templates.  That's really expensive in terms of refresh though, even if it does provide a powerful weapon in combat, and versatile toolset out of it.

5.  Cofeekid's gunslinger:

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but: :D

Of course, you fabricated the ability to create freely taggable aspects on your guns out of nothing (unfortunately, adding an arbitrary damage bonus based on expert crafting isn't without precedent).  Declarations about your equipment might be appropriate, but those don't seem like they'd refresh per scene.  And why 3 aspects, not more?  A house rule that grants massive bonuses to equipment attacks actually seems like a bigger change than one that provides a penalty to evocation attacks.  Especially because of 2 major problems: First of all, not all attacks use a weapon, so those attacks couldn't be boosted with gear bonuses. Second, evocation uses equipment.  Why settle for a vanilla magic wand or staff when you can pimp out your blasting rod with cooling vents, a reflex sight, custom grips, an experimental cartridge system, etc? 

Also, you don't have the resources to support a Workshop that could handle even difficulty 3 projects.  But the whole workshop rule seems really stupid anyway; I'm pretty sure we're ignoring it anyway.

I only see one stunt that can boost an attack, so his attack would default to 6, not 7.

Also, a Weapon Focus (effectively) stunt doesn't seem appropriately situational compared to the example attack booster.  It's pretty easy to apply like 90% of the time.  Even if Target Rich Environment is going to apply in 90% of the fights, it will lose utility as you drop enemies and even the odds.  Unless you lose, I guess.  :)

--------------------------------------------

So far, we've been using these rules in 2 sessions with our wizard.  He retooled a bit, dropping to 8 Control, 6 Power and picking up more defensive items.  Now, when he gets in a good hit, he's hitting for about 10 or so, instead of like 16.  It's not like he became a combat lightweight.  I think he also appreciated the ability to cast without stress in our recent zombie apocalypse adventure.

6
DFRPG / Re: Sample Stunts
« on: June 18, 2010, 05:52:28 AM »
Just a quick note. I've been compiling all the new stunts in the Our World book and it seems that my Rapid Fire stunt is very similar to the Blaze Away stunt on OW:221, except the latter is defined simply as "You can use any firearm to make a spray attack, even one not normally capable of doing so." I personally prefer my version as the OW one seems to broad, but thought I would point it out now that I noticed it.

Spray attacks seem inherently situational and often come 'free' on certain varieties of guns, so I can see not charging too much for the ability. 

7
DFRPG / Re: The Big Easy: Ghosts of the Past, Part Two
« on: June 17, 2010, 06:38:21 AM »
It seems Lenny is the only one in the party who isn't a killer  ::)

Oh, he never beat anyone to death with his bat?  And I'm sure it's just a matter of time, considering your use of alchemy.  :)

8
DFRPG / Re: Problems With Social Conflicts
« on: June 17, 2010, 06:35:47 AM »
Someone started without at least 1 in all of the stress track skills?  Wow.

Quote
it still seems strange to them that their character needs a  skill to use simple logic to convince people of things.

Really?  Why would anyone think that it's trivial?  Have you ever tried to argue with anyone on the internet?  :)

A character could still potentially do some maneuvers with other skills, even if most of the heavy lifting will be done with the social conflict skills.  For example, maybe try to place the maneuver "Watching X like a hawk" on yourself with Alertness, and then Tag it on an Empathy read because the character can pick up on little bits of body language more easily.  Contacts, Resources and Performance aren't exactly major social conflict skills, but they could also be used in some situations to support social actions too.

Aspects can also help.  Try to do stuff, fail a lot, and then when you get favorable results from the dice blow some fate points to expand the difference into a useful result.

But yeah, it really is a good idea to have skills for both types of conflicts (mental conflicts are generally much more limited, and often occur inside of or because of other conflicts).  Does the more socially skilled character have no Endurance, and no attack or defense abilities to use in a fight?  I definitely recommend allowing some rebuilding now that your players have a better idea of how things work in the game.  

The social conflict system in Dresden is pretty soft - if you're getting hammered, you can just concede and take a somewhat related consequence (the book example is something like "doubting my purity" on a chaste character getting hammered by a seducer) AND get a fate point.  It's hard to really make someone do something against their character concept.

9
White Court Vampire, Denarian, Alchemist...yeah. John quickly tries to turn this to advantage, talking about how the wizards need to build bridges and work with other members of the magical community against the Red Court.

Temper loves it when John runs his mouth and blabs about her.  She would be so mad if she ever found out.

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Temper wisely decides to avoid using the clamps, instead using her superior unarmed skills to beat up Nicholas Cage. "That's for Face Off! That's for Ghost Rider! And that's for National Treasure!" "Hey, that last one was good!" I'll avoid recounting our table's trashing of Face Off and the debate of whether or not National Treasure was, in fact, good. Today we discovered that we will, in fact, argue about the color yellow. :) Even against a man possessed by a supernaturally strong ghost, Cage falls pretty quickly, but not before Delphine Lalaurie, the uberghost possessing Cage, throws off some insults towards Temper. Temper is, perhaps, fortunate, that she set down the camera before attempting to batter down the door and the camera only records the sounds of their skirmish.

Actually, we were saying those things as Temper beat up Cage (including a dislocated elbow from her counter attack after the possessed actor punched through the wall); she isn't a big movie watcher and had little to complain about besides his boring information on the house.

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Temper, dragging an unconscious Nick Cage, meets up with Arty and Lenny. Temper explains that, basically, a ghost beat up Nicholas Cage. Close enough, right. So they hurry upstairs, glancing at their watches to note that it's near midnight. They've almost broken the record!


"A ghost possessed him and caused him to do things that injured himself..."  If only she had that Deceit stunt, but it didn't prove necessary here.

And she sent Lenny a text to get the alchemist and professor downstairs so they could help carry the KO'd man; she didn't carry him herself.

Now, our readers may be wondering, "Why the hell is Nick Cage in this adventure?"  According to mroehler's exhaustive :) research, the actor actually did own the real life version of the house for several years.  This detail seemed too funny not to include.

Death Walks Among You could actually apply to pretty much all of our characters, besides any NPCs of surprising dangerousness.  We're a pretty violent bunch.  Lefleur killed someone becoming a vampire (and is now a sort of crime boss); John was a soldier and has probably been involved in putting down some warlocks, Temperance is a killer.  It could have been warning the NPCs about us.

However, at the time, I suspected that Marie was a disguised Nightmare Hag, because the Lalaurie House appeared in her dream.

Conventionally, the skeptic guy will freak out and get himself or someone else killed.  So far, the escort mission is proceeding fairly well.

10
DFRPG / Re: The Big Easy: Ghosts of the Past, Part One
« on: June 16, 2010, 07:58:57 AM »
This thread is like 4 sessions behind now.

"I survived the zombie apocalypse and all I got was one party kill"  :)  

11
DFRPG / Re: Considering some Evocation house rules
« on: June 12, 2010, 04:36:07 AM »
I dont know if thats needed, I mean, Generally, if a wizard is fighting a baddy, the baddy is going to have 6 physical stress boxes and consequences. Thats a huge advantage over the poor wizard who at most is going to have 4 physical stress boxes.

Not really.  Most enemies, according to the rules, don't take their full assortment of consequences.  And a mild consequence recovers pretty easily.

Moreover, all PCs without toughness powers are in pretty much the same boat defensively.  However, those characters probably can't create Fantastic+ blocks, or have enchanted items to back up their defense.  For example, the WCV template is also pretty expensive and lacks toughness.  Werewolves don't have toughness or recovery.  

Spending an equivalent value of refresh on non-evocation attacks (for example, Strength powers) won't do any more to counter the ghoul's tendency to maim people.  But it will deal less damage (6-7 damage, 5 attack) compared to the wizard's counterattack (6 damage, 10 attack).  It's not like I'm comparing a guy with a bunch of combat focused powers and skills to a character lacking in those areas.

Plus, you're kind of helping my point: if many characters can't go toe to toe with ghouls for very long in the first place, then the mental damage cost of an evocation isn't going to be huge issue.  The fight can be over, one way or the other, before that restriction acts as a limiting factor.

I mean, I never said that taking Evocation made you invincible.  I said that it gives you a better offense than other Supernatural abilities.

It's kind of cheap to call normal ghouls only 6 refresh.  They have a lot of high combat skills.  In a straight up fight, they're going to be more dangerous than the standard RCV (worth almost twice as much).

Prepared...  In our biggest fight so far, the wizard forgot his focus item.  He got ambushed by an RCV noble with Supernatural Toughness.  His two shots of lightning counted a lot more than her attacks. :) He wasn't exactly running in there with a stack full of Assessments from advance planning - if you invest a lot in throwing power around, it can work pretty well even if you're not prepared in advance.  Also, it's tons easier to be prepared when your main weapons aren't obvious, illegal, and traceable - like the explosives and assault weaponry some people have.


12
DFRPG / Considering some Evocation house rules
« on: June 12, 2010, 02:42:01 AM »
So after more than ten sessions of our Big Easy game (run by, and written up here by mroehler - go check it out) it's becoming increasingly clear that Evocation attacks are more effective than an equivalent refresh of other abilities.

Why?  Because Evocation attacks are the most accurate - which then turns into damage.  Sure, evocations can have big weapon values, but a lot of powers offer bonuses to damage.  The real difference: most attack forms max out at around the skill cap, plus 1 or so.  The sword of the cross adds 1 to Weapon attacks, the vampire powers can +1 situationally, a stunt can add another +1 in the right conditions.  Not too many examples there (Target Rich Environment is the only stunt in Your Story that adds to attack).  OTOH, with Refinement, an evoker can grab up to twice the skill cap in bonuses from powers.  Granted, that's a pretty extreme example (kind of like the Red Court Infected + Knight of the Cross + DIY sword master stunt).

More reasonably, we can look at what a character in our game has: Evocation, with 2 points of Refinement: 1 for specializations, and one for a bigger focus item.  So that's +4 Offensive Control on a focus, and then +2 Control, +1 Power from specializations in the caster's favored element - basically, +6 attack, +1 damage, for -5 refresh.  -5 Refresh can also get you a plain old +6 damage (claws, Supernatural Strength).  This isn't exactly the most expensive ability.  Our character has a skill cap of 5, so he's throwing 6 Power, 10 Control air evocations with his starting skill selection (it's actually 6, 11 now since he increased his Discipline). 

Let's take a look at how that stacks up to some monsters.

The Black Court Master Vampire defends at 4, and packs 8 stress with 2 Armor from its Supernatural Toughness.  With +0 rolls, it gets hit by 6, so the spell does 10 damage after armor.  That's bigger than its stress track, so it must take a consequence after every shot.  Ouch.  Even if the caster isn't overchanneling - which is free, since 4 one stress hits are equivalent to hits of 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 (in any order) - he can deal out enough damage to essentially skip the stress track entirely.  Moreover, without a 7 point difference in rolls, the attack WILL hit.

How about Ursiel?  With only a Good Defense in ranged combat, he gets hit by 7 for 11 damage after armor.  So he's immediately in consequences as well.

Looking through other monsters, even a Fantastic defense roll is pretty freaking rare.  So even with a more balanced spread on a focus item (say, +2 Control instead of 4), these attacks essentially don't miss.  This situation isn't really surprising: powers seem to add far more damage or toughness than they do to accuracy or defense.  Mythic Speed at -6 is +3 versus ranged (and a near autowin against melee); Refinement can be +2 attack per -1.  Who needs maneuvers to hit for serious damage? 

With a bit of overchanneling, a tag on the consequences from the first shot, and a bit of luck, it's not unreasonable to put down some badass, Supernaturally Tough enemies who are willing to take serious consequences in 2 shots.  At the same time, the most effective single target attacker can also be the most effective area attacker with whole zone evocations - people with Grenades don't have a 10 in Weapons, and can't decide to include an even bigger area when needed.

Sure, an evoker only has a few shots without seriously hurting himself (we can assume someone interested in serious evocation has at least Good Conviction for 4 mental stress, and may have 5 for an extra mental consequence), but it doesn't take all that many when you do lots of damage and nothing can dodge. 
------------------------------------------------------------------

So that's been the problem as its appeared in our game a few times.

1: We think that the crux of the solution should be that the attack roll for a spell should be made with Discipline only.  Control bonuses help to control the power of the spell, but don't apply for comparing to the target's defense.  It's still just one roll, with Control bonuses being subtracted out.

Since attack value is a skill, it's essentially going to be in roughly the same range for combat focused wizards as other combat focused characters - the evoker can do a lot of damage, but they don't have a special advantage when attacking.  Maneuvers are still important in terms of landing a hit, and not just if you're trying to avoid an attack that would otherwise kill a mortal.

With that change, a mage's juice doesn't go nearly so far since they can't reasonably expect to hit some guy for like 12 damage, more spells will be wasted shots, they may have to use magical maneuvers to make sure they can land a hit, etc.  That kind of seems like a serious problem - being a guy who can throw out 4 or so 7 damage attacks (which isn't so unreasonable) would kind of suck compared to being a guy who has unlimited attacks at Weapon 6.  And Control just took significant hit to its utility relative to power (not that Power > Control is an especially safe place to be :) ).  That leads us to idea #2:

2: Spin on the Control roll reduces the mental stress dealt by the spell, at the standard rate of 3 extra successes reducing stress by 1.

A high control caster can get significantly more attacks at baseline levels of power.  Maneuvers, especially to apply scene aspects, don't require too much power, so there's a reasonable chance they'll be free (except for the action cost, obviously).

Even better, overchanneling to get extra power at the expense of more mental stress is no longer free.  If you already have 1 stress, then a 2 stress hit hurts just as much a 1 stress hit (without armor).  OTOH, with a chance to cast a spell at reduced stress, a caster might be able to avoid taking stress with normal spells, but even a spell with Spin at Conviction +1 would deal mental damage.

Of course, these changes are slightly more complicated than the base rules.  There's an additional calculation for an evocation attack.  We don't use Spin normally, so that's another complication. 

We also couldn't come up with a great way to deal with high power blocks.  Just like an evocation attack could have a huge accuracy, an evocation block can have a big defense value - one that significantly exceeds other characters' attacks.  Before, these defenses could be breached by high accuracy evocations, leaving the turtle mage vulnerable to other attacks until he could recast the shield (and a shield can be a significant investment).  With our house rules, not so much.  It seems like the only real countermeasure would be stacked maneuvers and declarations.  Our group couldn't actually think of a great way to deal with a mighty shield - maybe eroding the block ala attacking a threshold?  However, no character in our game going that route.  Also, a character who gives up a lot of active abilities to be nearly invincible seemed like less of a problem in a group than the person who can potentially blow through an encounter in an action or two.

So, thoughts?

13
DFRPG / Re: The Big Easy: Ghosts of the Past, Part One
« on: June 10, 2010, 08:52:05 AM »
But Lefleur doesn't believe in things like the Illuminati and the Bildeberger Group running world affairs. :) Although Temper was spookily accurate about vampire venom being the secret ingredient of Coca Cola. I think Maya must have read Temper's blog. And Lefleur probably thinks he's smarter than he really is, since he just lies about everything. Temper should just run him over with her Schwinn. Or fall in love and then punch him to bypass his Inhuman Recovery.

The amusing thing about playing Temper is that her conspiracy theories aren't crazy enough for the setting.  :)  I mean, all those groups are basically people.  No one predicted economic shadow warfare between immortal vampires and the ancient order of long lived wizards...

She's been working on revising them to account for the supernatural.

And why would she put surveillance on herself with a blog?  The whole blogging and social networking fad is just a way to encourage people to spy on each other, feed information to the Echelon supercomputers, and expedite social conditioning.  :)  But she's not above using them to help build cover IDs.

Why would Temper need to fall in love to hurt Lefleur?  She could just use The Clamps!  :D

14
DFRPG / Re: Ghosts of the Past, Part One
« on: June 10, 2010, 08:28:28 AM »
Eventually, Lenny's player (I think it was him) just said "Look, have you ever regretted scorping out? Use the clamps!" And, finally, Temper uses the clamps and drives away the Cauchemar. Go Temperance.

Well, she hasn't regretted it YET.  Not using it all the time seems like a good way to avoid regretting it in the future.  I really wanted to get out of that scene without using her powers at all, but the dice were not on my side.  Temper was getting decent rolls for defenses, but her attacks were coming at -3 on the dice.  :(  Even tagging some of the maneuvers she did wouldn't have helped.  I even spent most of her Fate Points.  But the Nightmare Hag seemed to have poison (Temper's Endurance is only 1), could force her into consequences on any physical hit, and dangerous mental attacks (she ended up with a mild mental consequence) so it seemed like she was running out of time.  Naturally, the turn she uses her power she rolls +2 and the Hag rolls -2 or -3, so pretty much anything could have landed a decent hit.  But that attack hit for 11, so the Hag might think twice before going after her again.

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Lenny is curious as to why, and Temper lies, saying that John gave her a book and she's doing some research. Not the best lie, since if Temper were actually reading the book, she's already have her answer. However, both Lenny and Lefleur begin making jokes about how Temper can't read, and she was actually just looking at the pictures.

Yeah, because all the texts about magic are in English.   :) 

And Lefleur doesn't have much room to complain.  IIRC, Lenny has as much scholarship as everyone else (everyone else who matters; I don't know about Iggy, but you may have noticed he doesn't show up) combined at 3 (I figured that he should have good normal chemistry on top of his alchemy when I picked his skills).  And Temper has 2.  So yeah. 

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DFRPG / Re: Swords of the Cross?
« on: June 10, 2010, 07:59:10 AM »
In many ways, the incredible coincidences that back up the Knights seem more like having tons of Fate Points to Invoke for Effect than real powers.

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