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UPDATE

I'd thought of trading the Loup-Garou's power itself in return for my character getting her wizard stuff back (she'd had it all ripped away in a recent conflict), but wasn't sure if it'd be legal.  Turns out it was and the GM was fine with it.  The scene didn't go quite as I expected, but the Loup-Garou is taken care.  She even got to meet Vadderung, which is pretty significant since the character's Norse-ish in religion and is wielding Gungnir.  It's not quite how I would have liked things to go, but it worked.

She's still part of the Council, though, which means she and the Lawbreaker are going to come into conflict.  The Lawbreaker's player knows the mechanics better than I do and doesn't mind the idea.  I hate it.  Haaaaate it.  I don't like fighting PCs, when I'm playing a game I'd rather solve some problems than get into lethal quarrels with the other people around me (please, no wrongfun chiding).  This is the one problem this outcome didn't fix, but it's a biggie.

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...power is not just a term applied to wizards.  Even normal humans can bring up a circle, though it's not very strong.  Then there's the idea of someone having power and just channeling it through their faith; that does not require God, just the human tendency to map agency and make up stories.  But at any rate, that is not what this thread was started to discuss.  Please keep 'goddidit' and discussions of religions and their validity out of this topic.

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Oh, being being willing to fight whatever made the curse if that comes up is not going to be a problem.  The character is literally willing to give her own life in the service  of what is right, at one point the rest of the group had to knock her out to stop her from going after a murderous dragon they thought was unbeatable (the GM later revealed we might have been able to take it).  And the last time a foe had her grappled, she called down ten shifts on lightning on both of them at the same time.  And this willingness to take on anything will not change even if she does trade her powers.

I like the idea of a Making, as well, because that has some serious potential...I'll mention that to the GM.  There's also the idea of trading the LOup-Garou's power itself in exchange for something else.

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Huh.  Personally, I'd expect someone who was dedicated enough to the Council and the Laws of Magic to become a Warden would be unlikely to give up on that sense of responsibility just because she lost her magic...

She 'became' a Warden about the same way Dresden did; 'we're short on people, you're a warrior-type (even better, one who hasn't even come close to breaking any Laws), put on this cloak'.  So, being big on personal responsibility, she's tried to do her best with it.  At least giving up her power means she has (and I can claim) some sort of excuse that lets me pay attention to other three problems I've put on the character's plate. 
And I'm pretty sure both the GM and the other player are aware of the conflict, they like adversarial situations.  I don't, but I'm in the minority so I can't really force the issue.

I'm all right with the possibility of her giving up her power, it fits the character and can lead to some very interesting roleplay.  I'm not even really mad at why I have to make this sort of decision, I just wish I were a little more free to consider other options.

So, to sum up the suggestions so far that don't require huge morality shifts, favors or specifically Wizard's Constitution instead of the whole wizard package?  Anything else?

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The problem with a favor is the way my GM envisions the Winter Crone; she is passive inevitability, not a power that is but a player that was.  She has little need for favors, to his mind, though he did just note that favors are interesting and he might be changing his mind on that.

Wyvern, I like the idea of just losing Wizard's Constitution and then going with a smaller favor, especially since that would still be very personally affecting (the character considers herself a warrior to the end, and the very real possibility of old age, of failing eyesight and creaking joints and general decrepitude and death in a cold bed instead of on the battlefield, would be just as terrible as loss of magical power.)  The old age idea is even more interesting... 

As for the situation overall, it is pretty interesting.  My only annoyance with it, even if she does give up her magic, is that I feel pressured into giving up her power for party cohesion because my GM is allowing and even indirectly encouraging someone to break the Laws of Magic...after they made my character a Warden in play.  Giving up her magic does obviate the need to either try to kill the guy or find excuses why she's never in scenes with him, but I do feel a touch bit miffed at having to make that choice even if it's a viable option for her in personality terms.

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DFRPG / What Can My Character Trade To the Winter Crone For An Unmaking?
« on: February 02, 2011, 07:36:04 PM »
My wizard character has taken responsibility for a loup-garou,  either containing it or (hopefully) finding a way to remove the curse.  Our GM has broken with canon and one of the characters in the party is the current Winter Knight, who has manuevered my character into going to see the the Winter Crone and hopefully making a bargain (the loup-garou had previously been in the 'care' of the Winter Court).

Right now she's looking at trading her power for am Unmaking, but I'm open to other suggestions.  Children are not an option, nor is anything else that would impede another's free will.  But if anyone can figure something out, it's going to be this board.  Thanks!

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Well, the Dresdenverse never explicitly makes clear who's manipulating the circumstances...but I would like to point out that the only time we hear of a condom, much less see one, it's been stuffed down someone's throat in order to transfer illicit goods.  Obviously someone's been spreading the 'tiny holes' fallacy or some other such nonsense.

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Quote
Lived like animals, To die like Angels

I like the quote, though I'll probably neaten it up to 'Live Like An Animal, Die Like An Angel'. 



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Really? Since when has a Ghoul been able to enter the Catholic Church in Dresden Book or am I reading a completely different series? Wait I am not. You are.

Dresden hides in the church and his allies to keep away from the evil and bad stuff like ghouls. Hell no proof? Read the series.

He hides in the church to keep away from some sorts of enemies, yes, but other than one reference earlier in the series to holy water (and that could have been due to extenuating circumstances) ghouls were never really portrayed as 'unholy', just monstrous.  Salt doesn't hurt ghouls even though t hurts fae, so assuming that all weaknesses hold true across all antagonist creatures seemed kind of silly.  On the other hand...

Quote
Well, OW59 has their "The Catch [+2] is wounds from holy objects.", so if going according to canon, it'd make sense why ghouls would avoid churches (and other holy places). If the game is set in Calcutta, I'd be interested in seeing the city character sheet, curious to see how others are incorporating local culture, customs, myths, religions and beliefs in a meaningful way.
 

There's an actual reference.  At that point I could argue that it is wounds and not just exposure; being stabbed by a crucifix might satisfy the catch, but as suggested earlier, a church might merely be uncomfortable.  RAW, baby.  Holy water might hurt her, but if I do a Scion or a True Faith exception (or both), even that could be minimal.

And chrislackey, your reaction is exactly what I'm looking for.  :)  I want characters to think about what someone is acually doing, not just what they're saying.  I want them to look at their own culture, things they've otherwise taken for granted.  One of my biggest frustrations with Dresden as a protaganist is the way he overlooks so much, and I want better out of my players. 
I want people also to consider the political implications of 'help'; how is the Order of St. Giles going to handle being flooded with newly infected from some of the Ghoul's hospitals, because she has made the grounds unholy and pain-filled enough to let them in?  Do they attack this Catholic 'living saint', even though they're sort of religiously based themselves?  Do they just attack the Red Court Vampires and leave her be, despite the pain she's causing?  How will the PCs react given the same choice, or issued an ultimatum if the Order tells them not to act against her?  The Order of Saint Giles is the only way to control the Hunger, what happens if one of their higher-ups declares that 'heretics' are not to be allowed in?  And that's not including individual reactions without the Order.  And, of course, after Proven Guilty the White Council has an alliance with the Knights and the Order, are the White Council wizards in the party going to take sides?

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Chrislackey, wanting that endless supply of food would also cast new light onto objections to any sort of contraception from such a figure. 

CMEast...I like your choice of pronouns.  :)

I have to read up on the mechanics of the Dresdenverse a bit more.  Crunch has generally been one of my weak points, hence the asking for stat help here, but the GM likes this idea and has me signed up for two stories and I'll have to learn.

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In the Dresdenverse, she coul very well consider the discomfort a gift to Christ (I'm stil going to handle her as fairly devout, or at least attempting to be so).  If I go with the idea that her mother was a human and passed on some limited immunity, even that discomfort might be minimized.

Most of them should be all right, though I'll check first anyway. 

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Well a Ghoul is already the scion of a human/uber-ghoul relationship (if you can call it that). As such, I would so that it's possible to have a ghoul/human half-breed (quarter-breed really).

(click to show/hide)

That was my thought on it, since humans and ghouls were obviously compatible at one point.  It could still hold true, and would also explain how such an entity could keep their consumption of human flesh down to a concealable limit (not a full ghoul, not a full apetite).

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One of the most Holy People of the 20th Century a ghoul? The Living Saint she was called when she was alive a GHOUL?! Excuse me?! As a Ghoul there is no way she could have entered some of the Holiest Grounds in the world without being burnt to a crisp!? I am not just talking Christian Holy Places but Hindu as well. She also lived in a Convent and went to Church. She would not be able to do that with that design in the slightest.

There is no way Mother Theresa was a Ghoul! She was a True Believer dear God study the woman.

As DFJunkie points out, there is no proof ghouls are allergic to holy stuff.  I cannot remember any such proof anywhere in the series, though I could be wrong and would welcome page references.  And as for studying her...I have.  I'd be happy to get into that debate with you, if extended riffs involving religion weren't against the rules of the forum.  Suffice it to say that I have come to very different conclusions.
(And as for True Believer, I can argue that, too; read what some of her personal letters, preserved after her death, contain.)

DF Junkie, I was thinking of using her as a mix of Major Power and Antagonist.  I liked the crossover between the Catholic Church and the Sabbat in the Old World of Darkness Material, and I was thinking that this could be very fertile ground for a variety of reasons; the emotions, the imagery...my main allies are actually intended to be the poor most mistreated by those in power, the ones who actually need the help and yet never actually receive the resources and money supposedly earmarked for them.  'Prayer of the Refugee' by Rise Against is some of my inspiration there.

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There are two different ways I can handle it if I want to keep the history of the real world figure; substitution of the human woman by a ghoul at some point, or possibly interbreeding with a human mother (her father was in politics, which if he were a ghoul would make the aphorism about laws and sausage even more appropriate).  Is that last point even possible, though, or can ghouls reproduce only with their own people?

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DFRPG / Re: Alternatives to the aspect 'Hardened Warrior'
« on: July 07, 2010, 09:01:20 PM »
Ah, you do remember.  Would you be upset if I did end up taking it?

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DFRPG / Re: Alternatives to the aspect 'Hardened Warrior'
« on: July 07, 2010, 06:12:49 AM »
Oh, dear.  The GM has informed me that taking 'Reap the Whirlwind' will most likely end up with my character killing a party member.  I like the meta-commentary of the aspect within the Dresdenverse, as an Old Testament phrase applied to a believer of the Norse practices who is trying to reclaim an artifact as a potent pagan symbol instead of a Christian artifact.  On the other hand, 'This Will Not Stand' is just as strong and a little more neutral.

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