First I'm not sure "who" is the best term.  Although Jim does use the term "actual beings" he also throws around terms like "cosmic forces" when describing this stuff (and a lot of his WoJ's seem to use that term specifically for Mother Winter by the way, implying to me that she encompasses more than a "who").  But yah, other than some terminology quibbles (Besides "who" I'd also prefer something other than "control" maybe influence or authority over) that's pretty much my point, and in fact it is almost explicitly stated by the 3rd WoJ.

Second, there is a bit of a chicken and the egg in my theorizing in the form of the question of, "what free will first spun out the initial disposition of cosmic forces".  Certainly not Humanity, but something I guess.  From that perspective, maybe Fero came from an older, free willed race that predated the formation of Earth itself.  Or maybe he is a construct created by something with free will to serve the purposes he did until further free will choices supplanted his significance.  (I highly suspect that this whole free will determining the shape of reality and what cosmic forces have preeminence is an iterative process)

But yes some of those things you listed are speculation, but not all, and I'd say that using the WoJ's I quoted, my theory causes the rest to be very informed speculation.  Don't agree with me?  Here's the Fero WoJ.  Defend that everything you described as speculation is.
 what same entity, which premise...

First I'm not sure "who" is the best term.  Although Jim does use the term "actual beings" he also throws around terms like "cosmic forces" when describing this stuff (and a lot of his WoJ's seem to use that term specifically for Mother Winter by the way, implying to me that she encompasses more than a "who").  But yah, other than some terminology quibbles (Besides "who" I'd also prefer something other than "control" maybe influence or authority over) that's pretty much my point, and in fact it is almost explicitly stated by the 3rd WoJ.

Second, there is a bit of a chicken and the egg in my theorizing in the form of the question of, "what free will first spun out the initial disposition of cosmic forces".  Certainly not Humanity, but something I guess.  From that perspective, maybe Fero came from an older, free willed race that predated the formation of Earth itself.  Or maybe he is a construct created by something with free will to serve the purposes he did until further free will choices supplanted his significance.  (I highly suspect that this whole free will determining the shape of reality and what cosmic forces have preeminence is an iterative process)

But yes some of those things you listed are speculation, but not all, and I'd say that using the WoJ's I quoted, my theory causes the rest to be very informed speculation.  Don't agree with me?  Here's the Fero WoJ.  Defend that everything you described as speculation is.
 what same entity, which premise...

Serack, you missed my point.

The WOJ I listed leaves a lot of wiggle room. We don't know which specific aspects of creation were assigned to Ferrovax. We don't know if any of them even still exist, in terms of his having shaped reality on the whole. We don't know how much control he had, or how or why it switched to someone or something else. That's the speculatory part, I'm not stating that Ferrovax having had control was speculation.

Your theory that it passed on to a free-willed being (or beings) may have some merit, particularly given the Dragons' resentment of humanity, but they aren't the only free willed beings around. The third quote regarding Ferrovax is supporting the idea (or premise) that free will can and does shape reality. Humans would have very little capability to change anything, were it not for that.

I'm confused.  We have that angels are older than humanity, but as far as I know we don't have a time link to the origins of fae, do we?  Unless we say fae must have come along after humanity I suppose.  Is that what you're getting at?


Also, we have Eldest Gruff in SmF with this dealing with the age of the Fallen:
Besides Namshiel, I want to say that Lash mentions a couple of things about how ancient angels are, but I'd have to search pretty heavy to find them.

I think that in order to discover the origins of the Fae in the DV, we need to figure out when they emerged into existence. For that, we do have a few (admittedly very vague) references as to when Humanity (mortals) came about, from sources like the Fallen and to a lesser extent, Bob. There is a link between mortality and the fae, so it would seem that the origins of the Fae are linked into the origin of humanity. If we can pinpoint when humanity began having an impact on DV reality, we *might* be able to discover where the fae broke off. Or if it's the other way around, and humanity evolved from the Fae, when mortality emerged out of the immortal.

Interesting. My posts in this topic seem to have vanished.

Hey Neuro,

I'm curious as to how Harry's death in Changes fits into the theory. Mortal free will is important, according to the theory- except Harry's death was a result of a compromised Free Will, and neither Uriel nor Mab moved or acted to stop it, despite their intelligence level/foresight. I can understand Uriel not being able to act to prevent it, given that he may not be able to act unless his opponent breaks a rule, but Harry had to answer Mab when she asked him about partaking of the death angel, as she put it, to get out of another deal with her (per Changes). Per your theory, wouldn't she have acted, in some way shape or form, to prevent him from taking his own life even though he gave his word that he wouldn't? 

Also, the presence of the parasite within Harry for as long as it was there poses some issues. With it perpetually feeding off of Harry (and, presumably, any / all powerups he received during the time frame in which it was present), coupled with its ability to nearly incapacitate him with headaches (as we see during the opening chapters of SG), you have a really good recipe for a permanently dead starborn swiss army/utility knife.

Ok. I'll give it a shot.

Personal theory:

1. Nicodemus, shortly before the heist leaves for Hades' vault, will attempt to thwart Harry's attempt at bringing a Knightly +1 with him. This is based on the premise that Harry asked for assistance from ONE person (and the Sword counts as additional assistance that was not agreed on in the terms of the deal with Mab, given that it and the person wielding it are essentially "borrowing" assistance from a third party). We get a new wielder as a result, as Harry's initial +1 is Murphy. The Sword can't be used to aid the Denarians in their schemes, even indirectly, so it won't be going with Harry's +1. This is just a wool-over-the-eyes maneuver, though... not because Nicodemus is concerned about the presence of the sword, but because he's stalling for time (possibly to run the clock out on Harry's parasite).

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

Both. Nicodemus agreed to taking Harry along for the ride far too quickly, and his only objection came when Harry whined about having a +1, causing Mab to make a "symmetry" comment in regards to the initial favor. While it was a slight twist on her part, Nicodemus was intentionally causing further delays to Mab's departure, and most definitely has a plan or two for Dresden up his black sleeves. I expect him to use Harry's new "cold iron" allergy against him at some point, and he's probably banking on some of Dresden's capabilities/powers being unintentionally (or possibly, intentionally) used against the wrong person. Like his +1. 

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

There is a possibility of 11 additional members. In terms of those with the skills, connections and capabilities to crack open a vault, my obvious vote goes to Kincaid. This one's right up his alley, and he's definitely looking for payback for the Shedd Incident, if he hasn't already taken it. A personal theory of mine is that we're going to see another White Council member on the team (and Harry's jaw will hit the floor when he sees who it is). Nicodemus is going to offer Harry a very cold little smile before he introduces them. "Dresden, because we all know you comport yourself with the utmost respect for secrecy and stealth, I've appointed you a babysitter. I suspect you know him as Arthur Langtry."

4. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

Well. Sanya's almost a requirement, unless something happened to him between Changes and Cold Days that we aren't aware of. Murphy will have to either pass the Swords she has on to two someones, or take one up herself (which I note she has been heavily reluctant to do, although that could be for any number of reasons.) My WAG: She passes a Sword off to the guy with the best of intentions Jim was speaking about, but that still doesn't enable him to face the demons in Hades' realm.

5. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

Mab rather blatantly showed an icy hostility towards Nicodemus, but took an oddly neutral tone towards Anduriel. This suggests to me that she may not, in fact, want Nicodemus killed (because she may suffer retribution from Anduriel at a delicate moment the next time it acquires a host). I think, rather, she pointed Harry at Nicodemus in a violent fashion because she wants Harry along for the ride when Nicodemus discovers the identity of the traitor who attacked Arctis Tor. (I also regard it as a certainty that Nicodemus will live to see book 20, in spite of pissing off Hades... he'll likely dump that responsibility straight onto the team he's created).

6. One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

One of them will break the Grail, rendering it useless to the rest of the team. This results in a free-for-all after all the trials and tribulations (and deaths) required just to get to the damned thing. In the ensuing squabble, Nicodemus will vanish with the item he was really after.

(Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

1. Lash has never been anything but a parasite, and reveals herself as such shortly before a solution is found to her 'problem'. Nicodemus and/or Hell are running a long con on Uriel in getting him to think that Harry is capable of manipulating or changing a Denarian's shadow.

2. We discover the literal existence of Amanda Beckitt's soul inside Hades' vault. Marcone is subsequently led to believe that Harry has somehow tampered with its return, which kicks off a war between the crime lord and Harry in book 16.

3. Murphy will be revealed to have had a Denarian shadow influencing her thoughts and actions for some time.

I am thinking what Harry's friends have endured because of him. If you don't limit it to that, you probably can include:

1. Murphy twice divorce and the death of her first husband.

2. Charity being sacrifice to the dragon.

and so on. You get the idea.

If it have to be because of Harry, I'll discount anything that equally benefited Harry's friends like what Murphy enjoys from Harry early in the series. I will also discount anything that is not started by Harry, like what Susan did. 

There were two people involved in the tango that created Maggie...

Out of curiosity, wouldn't the use of junk food accelerate the number of teeth that were falling out, thereby increasing the number of trades (and level of influence) the Faerie had across the board?

I'm a little more inclined to think that if Lacuna was a 'tooth' faerie, she'd want more teeth. Of course it's also possible that Sanya is correct, and Lacuna doesn't want the junk food because it's heavily addictive stuff (she seems to pride herself on her capabilities and knowledge).