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Messages - Phygers

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DF Spoilers / Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« on: September 14, 2021, 03:40:20 AM »
Quote from: Mira on September 14, 2021, 03:29:21 AM
I sincerely hope not!  Hadn't thought of it in Thomas/Justine terms, but that just smacks too much of Jim repeating himself,  vamp/mortal love match.. Oh and I guess we'd have to include Margaret/Lord Raith in that as well even though I doubt that that was exactly a love match..  Now more than ever I hope the marriage doesn't come off.

Agreed also Im tired of the "vampire with a soul and redemption arch" that has become a major thing since Buffy. Lara is a monster and she knows it long with Harry when she told him that the humans will thank her for becoming livestock

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DF Spoilers / Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« on: September 13, 2021, 11:23:01 PM »
Quote from: Mira on September 13, 2021, 09:56:31 PM

 Then there is the issue of true love, unless the protection ends with Murphy's death, Lara cannot touch Harry.

Depends on which Jim feels adds more drama and twists the blade for readers and Harry , but given that Susan's protection stuck around for a while after they split I would lean more to it being one the things between Lara and Harry that is going to cause turmoil. Personally hope it sticks around for while just to drive the LaraxHarry shippers mad  ;D

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DF Spoilers / Re: Dresden and Lara
« on: April 18, 2021, 02:13:45 AM »
Quote from: LostInTime on April 17, 2021, 11:49:23 PM
After the wedding Harry will no longer have protection from Lara. The wedding vows are a spell that removes true love protection. See Something Borrowed for confirmation.

This would be huge plot hole and problem I think for most readers if all a Whampire had to do was get a someone to marry them to get around the love protection issue and be rather convenient just to have a loophole like that. I hope Jim won't have it be that easy for Harry to lose the protection that Murphy gives him if Dresden doesn't find away out of it.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« on: April 12, 2021, 06:46:33 AM »
If you go with how Jim thinks its a good time to torture his readers and Harry: Murphy married to Rudolph happily at that maybe with kids. Maggie as the heir to Susan and Harry's Court in Chicago. Evil Harry let's his inner Bob out and whores himself out to the supernatural women of the city.

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DF Spoilers / Re: The Barabbas curse
« on: April 05, 2021, 05:09:35 PM »
Quote from: BrainFireBob on April 05, 2021, 03:35:00 PM
I don't want to tread on toes, here, but are you stating it is your belief that Jim must suffer for what he did to Murphy, in a story he created and that he controls, in a story that is not about her but about a different character (Harry Dresden)?

To answer the OP no I doubt it was the curse was used , but then again I and other readers don't know what Butcher has planned or if there is more behind the way Murph went out anything is possible at this point.

I get it that it's his story and he writes for himself and the people that want to read that adventure. All the other deaths of people that others where fans of (Susan, Shiro, Morgan) or where close to Harry where written and blended more into the book and story where this one sticks out like a sore thumb almost like it was written as a after thought and then jammed in late in writing process

 It's the kinda ham-fisted way he went about killing Murphy on top of giving H and K shippers what they had waited for 16 books for only to then slap them in the face with BG and then in the interview where talking about why he did it and how he wanted his readers and Murph supporters to suffer the most while reading that on top then telling the people that are still around and pissed about it to keep reading is the thing that makes me want to ask Jim "Really you think that telling them to keep reading after you angered them and kinda slapped them in face is going get them to come back".  I feel is a dumb thought on his part

And no I wish nothing bad or harm on Jim or anybody. Just that I have had friend's and family that have walked over this that would like to give Butcher a piece of their mind and I'm on the fence on fence about how I feel over it


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DF Spoilers / Re: The Barabbas curse
« on: April 04, 2021, 06:23:59 AM »
Quote from: CrusherJen on April 04, 2021, 05:48:30 AM
But I can't say I'm not a little troubled by how it came across on the page. Apparently it was a deliberate narrative choice to have Murphy "accidentally" killed, but it did feel a bit ham-fisted to me. Other important characters' deaths (Shiro, Morgan, Susan) felt like natural consequences of the storyline. For me, this seemed more abrupt, like, "well, the plot says it's gonna happen now, so here it is, boom." Maybe that's because there were so many other things going on that there wasn't time for Harry to really deal with it, and we'll get more resolution in Twelve Months, or in future novels.

The way Jim had Harry deal with it was dumb and the way after Butter snapped Harry out of the red mist and it was never really brought up again was also irritating. Then we get the Gard at the funeral give Murphy fans more of a slap in the face with the "Not until all memory of her is faded" BS kinda boils down to Murphy got the power up she needed but no she doesn't get to use it instead she gets put on a shelf.

We also get Mab forcing Harry and Lara together which didn't help how H and K fans felt I didn't like that entire scene with Harry regardless of Lara and Molly stopping him from saying something that would get him killed seamed out of character for Harry to with way that would tread on anybody's sore spot that a person you love is dead and he just swallow's all the back sass and back talk that normal comes from someone telling him what to do. I can see why and sort of agree with one my friends that it felt like a giant FU from Butcher toward Murph fans and I think Jim is still not really getting the full backlash from doing what he did given none of cons are open to where I feel he would get the most backlash from Murph fans given how much the Dresden Reddit and FB groups are anti-Murphy and have been for awhile so his view might be lacking the full picture but I guess time well tell

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DF Spoilers / Re: The Barabbas curse
« on: April 03, 2021, 05:58:14 PM »
Quote from: CrusherJen on April 03, 2021, 07:18:21 AM
I don't think Jim is writing for the readers, more like he's trying to write stories the way he wants to. But you've got a point about reactions-- there are some epic rants on Archive of Our Own from some very pissed-off people over Murphy's death. I'm not sure how much the "keep reading" advice is going to mollify them.

Unless things truly start to go downhill, I'm in this for the long haul. I'd prefer to read the stories Butcher wants to tell, organically, rather than something crafted to reader expectations. And I'm way too curious about what comes next to give up now. But not everybody will feel the same. I kind of doubt the sales figures will go down too much because of this, but time will tell.

There's also the fact that if it was Molly or Lara ,Mab or other people favorite's had been killed in what some feel was a ham fisted way that Murphy was most of the fan base I think would not be so accepting of their death they way everyone seems to be okay with Karrin being killed and there would be more backlash toward Butcher

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DF Spoilers / Re: The Barabbas curse
« on: April 01, 2021, 08:34:07 PM »
Quote from: TheCuriousFan on April 01, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
What is going to make the reader suffer the most to read I had a lot of fun planning that out and I know there's a lot of people who are really angry at me and to them I can say "well keep reading we'll see what happens".
I think Jim is underestimating how angry people are at Murphy going out the way she did on top of his sudden disinterest the relationship he spent 17 books building between Harry and Karin before what happened in BG given you can go look on TvTropes and under brokenbase https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/BrokenBase/OtherMedia under the lit selection and it's not wrong with friends and family that also walked for good or want to punch Jim in the face. It spells nothing good going forward with Dresden that wants he readers to suffer the most while reading and thinking they are going to come back for another go around is dumb. I have wonder if anyone pulled him a side and ask if he thought it through because of what it might cost him

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DF Spoilers / Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« on: November 07, 2020, 04:14:46 AM »
Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on November 07, 2020, 02:58:49 AM
Murphy's spirit/soul cannot leave Valhalla for next few centuries.

What's LKH?

That saying I agree about lack of serious growth of character. I'll say even more - other characters have this problem as well.
This is curse of formula - books in DF are like tightly written episodes of TV-series. But there is lot of time between them  - that episodes of TV series lacks.

So for story that spans like 20 seasons, we ultimately gets character development worthy of maybe a season.
Murphy can leave Valhalla when the memory of her has faded from mortal memory and using faded vs forgotten means something different than no memory. Her memory only has to be weakened or diminished it's just a matter of how faded to use Webster's definition. So there are ways she could return sooner than that or BAT

LKH is Laurell Kaye Hamilton author of the Anita Blake series that she ran/turned a great to start to series into a porn/orgy fest while writing the main as a hero even though she is firmly on the side of the antagonist and drove a good chunk of fans away. Dosen't help fans that are wondering if continue to read DF is a good idea after BG , PT and Murphy being removed to find out that Jim is friends with her and thinks that a crossover would be cool.

The problem that most have with Murph's death is how it was done and handle afterward. We had what 17 books and side stories of H and K interaction and foundation building in the series only for her to used as a something to gut punch Harry and then no real show any kind of fallout to her death after Butters and Sanya snapped him out of turning Rudolph into a bloody smear. Then at the end we have Jim forcing Harry and Lara together it feels like he did it just to get Karrin out of the way for Lara 

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DF Spoilers / Re: [BG spoilers] A defense and requiem for my favorite character . . .
« on: November 03, 2020, 08:36:54 PM »
Quote from: Bad Alias on November 03, 2020, 08:02:22 PM
Murphy's physical prowess was never what made her a threat to the supernatural. They all had her beat physically. It was her willingness to admit the supernatural existed and then deal with it intelligently. Jim could have easily moved her into a command and control position instead of a combat position. She would have been perfect for helping Harry run whatever group he's planning on going with if she could have adjusted to not being on the front lines. She had done that in plenty of books. Sure, she was moving away from it by BR, but she was still filling a largely non-combat role as late as TC. She was also being more of a leader than we've ever seen her be in GS. The groundwork was all there for a difficult, and maybe failed, transition from a front line soldier to a leader.

I know I said I didn't care what Jim did with her the last time we had this debate, but I'm starting to think her trying to make the transition, failing, and then dying as she takes the field would have made a better end to her character arc than her never really trying in the first place.

I'm still undecided on whether her trying and succeeding would have been a better or worse story choice than what we got. It probably would depend entirely on the execution.
I think Her trying and failing to make the transition only to fall into a some form of depression or desperation that would have her seek a way from some faction to get back in the field and have Harry and Karrin having to deal with the fact that like Harry being the WK, she would have someone that would give her orders that may put her on opposite Harry would have been better then what we got with the almost lazy way Murph's death was done and Harry brushing off the hurt and grief of her death off BS after Butters snaps him back to his senses. That Butcher gave us in BG

I'm just wondering how Jim killing Murphy is going to hurt his fan base and yes he pleased the Murph-haters, but was it worth the cost I wonder have had a lot friends that are not happy and feel like Butcher wasted their time and money for 17 books only to get a giant middle finger.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
« on: October 15, 2020, 07:50:11 PM »
Murphy I think will be back as a Einherjar/Angel thing given all the shit that Jim should have taken into account (Harry when using "sight" looking at her, her being Catholic, the swords reaction to her , the call sign she was given) when giving her the boost and she will be back sooner than BAT more like 2-3 books. Given it would
1. Give Jim a chance to torture his readers and Karrin and Harry at the same time

2. Gard said she can't return until all "memory of her has FADED from those that knew her". using the Websters definition it just means "weakened or diminished " with her being dead it shouldn't be that long for memory of her to blur with the people she knew. Think if Butcher wanted her gone for good he would have used forgotten not faded

3. I see no way with her waking up in Valhalla and being told no you can't leave and just accepting that given she knows what type shit Harry can get himself into with her staging a jailbreak on her own.

4. Murphy is a large support and foundational pillar with a lot of fans that I don't think the series can work long term without I hope Butcher know this or it may cost him some fans.

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