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Messages - Kindler

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1
DF Spoilers / Re: A Way to Demonreach
« on: September 23, 2021, 07:36:45 PM »
I think Margaret's ruby is about to get used.
I really, really hope so. It feels like it's been tragically underutilized in the story.
For example... it might've been effing awesome for Harry to have used the directions from Margaret's travels to hop around Chicago during Battle Ground, or to use it to smuggle Thomas out, or to hightail it to Edinburgh to pick up the Merlin and anyone else who could come, or... something.
I know, I know, Harry was a little busy at the time and the guy can't do everything. But c'mon. He's got the power to go almost anywhere he wants to. He's had it for, what, two full years? Maybe longer.
It also functions like a diary. I'm sure Margaret left Harry more than magic MapQuest and a message for Harry (somehow) inside Thomas's noggin. There's got to be more than that for Harry to hear.

2
DF Spoilers / Re: Outsiders origins
« on: September 23, 2021, 07:31:46 PM »
But also, the Outsiders are the servants of the Old Ones ... who are still inside. The Walkers aren't the pinnacle of the lovecraftian pantheon, they're the knights of the even higher powers that were put to sleep in lieu of casting them outside.
You know, I wonder if there is an opposing equivalent to the Old Ones who are likewise "asleep" on the Outside. Like a beacon of Order amidst the Chaos, versus giant blobs of Chaos amid the Order of Inside.
I'd imagine that Archangels are probably the equivalent of the Old Ones, but I could be wrong. Mostly I just want there to be good-aligned Kaiju to fight against Cthulhu.

3
DF Spoilers / Re: A Way to Demonreach
« on: September 23, 2021, 06:04:17 PM »
Well, the Water Beetle is an old trawler, surrounded by water (partially submerged), so it does make a degree of sense that it wouldn't be affected the same way. Those types of engines are significantly more durable than most land vehicle engines (for example, boat engines are typically used way less often than a car's is, and I'm sure we've all seen what happens when you don't drive an old car for a month or two in the winter, and that's without talking about the battery). They have to resist salt water corrosion, etc. But the main thing is that the seacock on the Water Beetle was probably open (I really doubt Thomas closed it), and there was almost certainly a lot of water in the engine's cooling systems that helped keep it operational.
Also boat diesel is expensive, and boats are money pits. I got rid of my sailboat many years ago and haven't looked back. It was not nearly the chick magnet I was hoping it would be.

4
DF Spoilers / Re: White Council Top Members
« on: September 23, 2021, 05:39:45 PM »
Jury's out on Steed for me. I can't get a good enough read on him. He could have just been playing Good Cop in that scene, but then again he's also the one who warns Harry about the attack on the Council in Changes. Then again again, he's also one of the ONLY young wardens left at liberty by that point, too, which means he's perceived as trustworthy by enough people with authority (who generally oppose Harry).
I like to think that his time-related magic specialization is giving him clearer glimpses into the future than anyone suspects. I think he's playing his part as best he can and carefully wriggling out of situations in order to support the best outcomes he can perceive. It's also possible that he knows more about people's pasts than he lets on, and uses that information to judge their character more accurately. Knowing someone's past alters the way you perceive them and your behavior toward/around them (at least it does for most people, in my experience).
I don't know what Chandler's deal is, to be honest. Though I fully anticipate him being the catalyst for whatever time travel book we eventually get.

It was against blampires with no prep time.  I think that was the only way it could have reasonably gone, especially with Drakul there to keep Harry's River Shoulders's attention.  They're all bad news.

Numbers makes a big difference in a fight.  I think individually, Harry could have taken down any of the wardens on that road, but altogether is much much harder. 
My issue isn't so much with the fact that they lost; it's that we finally get to see Harry's war buddies fight, and they get wiped. They've got a reputation for being survivors, tough customers, veterans of a bloody and brutal protracted conflict (and then a second one, against the Fomor). I would've liked to have seen them win a fight or three before this encounter, to justify the reputation Harry gives them. It's not quite the Worf Effect, because you at least saw Worf kick plenty of keisters before he started getting his own kicked in return, but it left a similar taste in my mouth.

5
DF Spoilers / Re: California Crew
« on: September 23, 2021, 04:15:56 PM »
Well, no place in more need of some serious feng shui than Harry's new home, the castle.. I can see Lara insisting on it. ;)
Honestly, that would be one of the most hysterical callbacks in the series. Harry calling up Jake and company to Feng Shui the crap out of his new castle would leave me in tears of laughter. That's exactly the kind of fan service I like in Western Media.
Here's hoping there's a section of Twelve Months devoted to interior decorating.

6
DF Spoilers / Re: I can see why some of the gods would be in pro wrestling
« on: September 23, 2021, 04:10:54 PM »
(Also fun fact, Hecate is associated with dogs, a good analog for the summer/winter knight)
A goddess after my own heart.
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The fact that the Archive exists makes me second guess on her as well.
Yeah. It was mentioned that the Pythia were Archives using knowledge of the past to predict the future, and there is a certain amount of hereditary power there involved in passing down the Archive. Personally, I think that the other children of previous Archives (I don't think it's ever stated that they only have one child, so it makes sense that there would be offshoots of the main Archive branch) have been seen in the series. Namely, I think that the non-chosen descendants of previous Archives are the ones who have Cassandra's Tears, like Lydia (whose real name was Barbara, if I remember right).

7
DF Spoilers / Re: White Council Top Members
« on: September 23, 2021, 03:41:31 PM »
If Carlos, Bill, Yoshimo and Chandler were all considered Elite Wardens enough to be the Senior Councils bodyguards, and Harry outranks them all that alone puts him in the top 10.
Not going to lie, I was really, really disappointed when Bill, Yoshimo, and Chandler FINALLY got a chance to fight on the page, and got completely curbstomped. It wasn't even close. They even had a freaking Sasquatch as backup and got their teeth kicked in.
I don't think they were even in Harry's league, to be honest, at least not by Battle Ground. No idea how they'd have measured up pre-Changes, but Winter Knight Harry completely outclasses them, in my reading of it.

8
DF Spoilers / Re: Double check me on Marcone's progression
« on: September 23, 2021, 03:05:48 PM »
You're right. Marcone definitely knew about the spooky side of things prior to the events of Storm Front. We have no idea how he learned about it, but he knew Dresden was the real thing before he tried to buy him off, and he knew what a soulgaze was (because he wasn't surprised about it, and seemed to initiate it deliberately).
Personally, I think the one who gave the hexenwulf belts to the FBI and instigated everything was Vaderrung, as Kringle. It's a bit of a WAG, but Jim's mentioned the culprit a couple of times when asked (here's a thread with the WoJs I based this WAG on: https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=36011.0).

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"Jim was asked whether we have met the people who created the Hexenwolf belts yet and he answered, 'That's another "I'm not gonna tell you" question. I will say, "kind of," "not really," and "yes." But we'll get into more of that during Cold Days as well.'"

I take that to mean the character we "kind of" "not really" but do meet in Cold Days is Kringle/Vaderrung. He's the only one we've met by the end of Changes who appears in Cold Days as a semi-different character, unless there's another reveal that I missed.

Anyway, I always found it interesting that Marcone is targeted by the Hexenwulves in FM and the next time we see him, he's secured the services of Vaderrung. I think Odin had his eye on Marcone, tested him (and Harry), and decided that Marcone would be a worthwhile investment. I think it's safe to say that that investment paid off big time in Battle Ground (not to mention White Night and Small Favor). Even in Death Masks, Marcone/Gard are directly responsible for altering Harry's fate by saving his life, which Gard lampshades.

9
DF Spoilers / Re: Re-reading and this jumped out at me
« on: September 23, 2021, 02:13:49 PM »
The specifics of the Loup Garou curse on MacFinn were (as I recall):
1. Placed by a Saint (which has meaning in the DF according to Jim; apparently it's something like the wizard equivalent for faith-based magic).
2. Affected the firstborn of the MacFinn line.
3. Ensured that the MacFinn lineage would never die out until the End of Days.
Tera West all but stated that she was pregnant, and I recall a Word of Jim entry that stated Tera would return by the end. I think he'd originally said that she would return for Ghost Story, but more recently said she would be back for the BAT instead.
Personally, I think in Ghost Story she might have been originally intended to run a different gang of street kids in opposition to Zero (and to protect them from the Fomor encroachment), but the book was a bit long to begin with. Probably better for her to have been cut.
Anyway, yeah, there's definitely going to be another Loup somewhere down the line. Really good catch that I completely missed!

10
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: September 07, 2021, 08:25:13 PM »
what was her name, Sandra Marlin? That fishy lady who directly told molly about fear as a motivator.
Ah, okay, that makes more sense. Yes, Sandra gave Molly the idea. The word "instructed" was bothering me, because it implies a level of authority I don't think Molly'd ever really recognized at the point of her life.
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She didn't just send nightmares, she replaced compulsive behavior. Even Harry commented on how her friend should have been jonesin still. She modified their behavior with choices they did not make themselves. This compromises free will. Your looking at the right vs wrong aspect I think, which is not the same, and is a matter of opinion really, taking free will vs allowing destructive behavior.
I meant that terrifying someone doesn't mean they can no longer choose. To me, removing free will means compulsion, literally overwriting their ability to make a choice. Even someone with a gun pointed at their head can still choose to disobey. But I think we can agree to disagree on this.
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Without her using fear, she's not a beacon, and nobody can send anything after her or anywhere else. Your basing your theory off the idea the good guys acted first, but they reacted, like literally, post timeline messages and all.
1 that's not even future event knowledge then, that's alternate timeline knowledge.. without intervention whatever happened had to be significant enough to attract not just attention, by the need to fix it from happening by someone whose known for sitting things out and letting things play where they will without his interference.
2 Rashid, knows what? That whatever happened in the original future was deleterious to that future.
3 is death really that big of a deal, for Rashid to interfere?
4 indeed, but what does it actually cause that's so bad?
Yeah, the bad guys are acting and Rashid is reacting. I didn't mean to indicate otherwise. I'm saying Rashid pushed Harry to act because he knows Molly will be important later, and that as things stand she will die without Harry's intervention.
1. It doesn't require alternate timeline knowledge. It only requires knowledge of possible futures. I see an important distinction there. If you can look into the future and see various possibilities, including the death of someone important to global events, you would want to take the steps you can to avoid it.
2. Rashid specifically knows that Molly is going to be important. Not to the degree of her becoming the Winter Lady, probably. But I think he knows who will be important as they relate to the Outsider conflict. The Winter Lady is important in the War, and Molly herself is critical in the first major on-page conflict with Outsiders. I don't mean to suggest that Rashid looked into the future and saw the events of Cold Days, because that would stretch credibility way too much for a mortal wizard. But I do think he knew that Molly would play an important role against the Outsiders, and that her death at the end of Proven Guilty would weaken Reality's chances. So he took steps to attempt to save her, and put her on the path that led to her current status.
3. I think Molly's is, yes.
4. I don't know what would happen if Rashid violates causality. I don't think anyone does, really.

11
DF Spoilers / Re: Demonreach, Ley lines, and Harry's connection
« on: September 07, 2021, 08:11:07 PM »
And why so many time travel stories fall flat, they are predictable.
Agreed. The time travel stories I tend to like best involve Stable Time Loops and "You've already changed the past" tropes, wherein the story happens exactly as it already did, and the time travel just reveals "Oh, that's what that thing was." TribeTwelve, a found footage Slenderman series I watched religiously during the height of the Slenderman Boom (I wasn't the target age demographic, but I'm a sucker for stories about unknowable Edritch Abominations) is one of a handful of amateur attempts at portraying such a Stable Time Loop. The instances of time travel are used for exposition, not to undo a mistake or something.
Like... I saw Infinity War, and was pretty annoyed at the predictable time travel. They just used it to solve problems and really, REALLY should have screwed up the timeline a whole lot. None of it made sense, and they didn't even try to explain how Thanos from several years previous could come forward in time and be killed without absolutely destroying the entire timeline. By doing that, the Snap never should (or COULD) have happened. I guess they just created an alternate timeline instead where it both happened and didn't happen or something, because it's not even mentioned.
Stuff like that is why I've always disliked multiverse explanations for time travel hijinks.
The best time travel stories I've ever consumed are really, really, really strange for me. The first is Steins;Gate, which has clear rules and limitations placed on it (I strongly recommend watching that particular anime if you haven't already; it's strange and intimate and surprisingly (and pleasantly) complicated, with a particularly good dub if you aren't a fan of subtitles). Anime isn't my favorite medium, but I really do like stories exactly like that.
The other is the Legacy of Kain video game series. It deals with time travel throughout the series, paradoxes, using paradoxes to advantage, eldritch abominations, fate, and vampires. Plus all of the characters are Hams who speak in Shakespearean dialogue in a way I've never seen anyone pull off in a video game. Pity the series hasn't gotten a new entry in like twenty years, because I really, really wanted more.
Anyway, I hope whatever time traveling we see in Dresden isn't a mere plot device to fix a mistake or something, but is done in such a way that makes sense, without violating the previous rules we've seen so far. For exposition, mostly.

12
DF Spoilers / Re: So When Maeve Died, What Happened to.....
« on: September 07, 2021, 07:16:22 PM »
Consider, if the consort kills the monarch it might qualify as a legit coupe. So Mabs really telling Harry to take over her job.
I don't think that's possible. For one, he can't accept either of the Mantles in question, and those Mantles are critical. Do you mean Mab was telling Harry to become a new Winter monarch? Or that he would advise the next monarch? Because Harry flat out does not know enough to do either of those things. He'd just learned that the Outer Gates actually existed within a year or two of PT/BG.

13
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: September 07, 2021, 07:14:14 PM »
The Molly angle is all wrong because it's missing one piece, Molly was instructed to use fear to replace free will. The fetches couldn't have had a beacon without it.
Instructed by whom? And I don't think she exactly abrogated free will. She altered perceptions, and sent nightmares. She attacked their psyches to the point that they made crappy decisions, but that's not replacing free will, in my opinion.
And yes, she was a beacon. I don't see how that makes any of it invalid. It just helped put her in danger. My point is that third parties like Rashid wanted to make sure she didn't die, not that they guided her to become Harry's apprentice and become the Winter Lady. Does that make sense?
1. Molly is going to be important in the future;
2. Rashid and others know this;
3. Molly's gonna die in the near future without intervention;
4. Let's make sure that doesn't happen without violating causality.
That's how I see pretty much all of Proven Guilty.

14
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: September 07, 2021, 05:39:30 PM »
I think it's more complicated than that.  There's a contradiction: it has to be a group tough enough that they can do that kind of damage in the heart of Winter.  At the same time, they have to be weak enough that Mab didn't feel like there was any real danger for her interests (otherwise call in reinforcements).  WoJ says that Wild Hunt + Erlking + Namshiel would be iffy about Mab even needing to make an effort to stop them.

Altogether, it makes it seem like Mab made a judgement call and showed restraint towards the attackers for an unknown reason.  Harry didn't notice any enemy bodies Mab left behind, but her guards were all killed.  In the end, the attack doesn't seem to have met its objective either.  Mab still has Lea on ice (if that was even the goal at all).
My theory has always been that Molly was the focus of PG because someone knew (or believed in the possibility) that she would one day become the Winter Lady. The fetches were intended to draw Harry's attention to Molly's use of black magic, because without him, she would have certainly been caught, tried, and executed. The main whole-series outcome of Proven Guilty is Molly becoming Harry's apprentice, setting her on a path to replace Maeve as Winter Lady.
Personally, I find it convenient that the first fetch assault accomplished three things: it sealed up Pell's theater, attracted Harry's attention, and framed Molly's... boyfriend? Side piece? I don't know what the cool kids call it these days. Molly was a beacon, and so was the guy (because he was the target of black magic and had the scent of fear that attracted them).
In my opinion, the Arctis Tor attack succeeded at the intended objective: clearing the way for Harry's party. Harry, Thomas, Murphy, and Charity barely had enough in them to handle the fetches; if Mab's elite bodyguards were still kicking, they almost certainly would've failed.
The players we know about:
1. Mab
2. Maeve
3. The Arctis Tor Attackers (speculated in the books to be Thorned Namshiel; at the very least, it appears to be someone capable of using Hellfire)
4. Molly
5. Lily and Fix
6. Nemesis
7. Rashid
Other potential players:
1. Uriel (or other agents of TWG)
2. A third party who may or may not be misleading the Fetches

I believe that Rashid knew Molly would be important, which is why he got Harry looking in on it early. I don't know if Rashid knew that Molly would be the Winter Lady, but he seems to know a lot about what's happening and what's GOING to happen. I think he at least knew that she would be a player in the future, and that her death at that point would be catastrophic. The results of her death would be:
1. First, Harry would go berserk and die. At the very least, he'd be removed from the Council. That's where he is at the end of Battle Ground anyway, but now he's got other Powers backing him up. In Proven Guilty, he had nothing but Hellfire at his disposal, along with being pals with a pack of werewolves and Murphy. Now he has: Winter Knight Mantle, Mab, Molly, the Alphas, the Knights of the Bean (maybe, I haven't decided how important that compact is yet), Bonea, Demonreach, Soulfire, Lara, Odin, a castle, and the 'Za Lord's Guard, plus a reputation.
2. Maeve's gambit in Cold Days might've succeeded. Demonreach might've been breached. Big death bomb.
3. Maggie would've been sacrificed, Eb would've died, and the Red Court would still be alive.
4. White Night might've worked, too. Elaine would've died (also speculated to be another Starborn) for certain.
5. Failing all of that, Ghost Story would've worked as Corpsetaker planned, and a Darkhallow might've been performed for real.
6. Michael would probably have remained a Knight for a while longer if he even still lived.
7. Peabody would've gone undetected.
8. Most importantly, even if Harry lived long enough and Cold Days still played out the way it did on page, there would be another Winter Lady right now. If it was someone of Mab's choosing, she'd likely be an awful lot colder and more ruthless. I think Molly's role as Winter Lady is to be a more humanizing element to Winter, which I think is going to be critical in later installments.
Etc., etc. Basically, if Molly bites the dust and Harry throws down with the Council, everything goes down with them. So it's my belief that someone (likely someones) knew she was going to be important, and helped push the attack on Arctis Tor to make sure things worked out as they did.

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DF Spoilers / Re: I can see why some of the gods would be in pro wrestling
« on: September 07, 2021, 04:22:57 PM »
Nah, Thor wasn't in football. He was pitching for the Mets until he blew out his UCL. Do recall that they liked to throw things at people - not just lightning like Thor. They threw all sorts of things at Balder thinking him invulnerable... until Loki slipped in mistletoe.
(Baseball Thor - Noah Syndergaard, a 6'6" 240 pound pitcher with long blonde hair and a Scandinavian name. One of the hardest throwing starters as well.  Even played a Viking in some sitcom once.)
You mean Thor ISN'T Clay Matthews?

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