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Messages - Mira

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6946
DF Spoilers / Re: Was Nemesis in Storm Front?
« on: June 24, 2018, 05:32:43 AM »
Quote from: Fcrate on June 23, 2018, 09:32:54 PM

He was protected long before blood rites. Which is why a wizard of Margaret's calibre went for a crippling blow with her death curse instead of a death blow.
The possessed by an outsider bit has merit though.

Yes, he was protected, but a wizard like Margaret who lived with him and had a child by him would figure out the secret of his power.   Most likely she learned a great deal more, that is why I think when she met Malcolm, she found the strength to leave Raith, not only because she fell in love but because she felt that he had the qualities to father a star child to counter the Outsiders.  She also left Thomas behind I think because if she took him with Raith would have gone after her sooner.

6947
DF Spoilers / Re: Was Nemesis in Storm Front?
« on: June 23, 2018, 08:30:56 PM »
Quote from: groinkick on June 23, 2018, 08:26:59 PM
Jim may have thrown out some misinformation but didn't he say recently that the 3 witches got him the magical protection? (probably by summoning HHWB)


I never heard that, but I am not up on all WOJs..  It is my own theory based on what Harry felt when he tried to kill him in Blood Rite.   Do you have the WOJ?

6948
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« on: June 23, 2018, 08:28:22 PM »
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Today, I was thinking about Babylon 5 a bit.  We know Jim was watching much of it while writing plotting out the series.  In Babylon 5, there is emphasis placed on "the One".  It turns out this "the One" actually is a trinity of people: Sinclair, Delenn, Sheridan.  The one who was, who is, who will be.  We have it established that the Queens are also divided by this division. I'm wondering if "the One" idea will end up playing a part in the Dresden Files.  I mean we could have "the One" being a trinity of Starborn.  Or, a trinity of Mab's affecting the mantle at any one time. Or just "the One" being a trinity of Fae Queens.  It should be noted however that this "the One" identity is tied up in a time traveling plot whereby one of "the One" goes back into the past 1000 years ago.  This would be similar to my idea that Murphy becomes Mab; or similar to Ms. Duck's theory that Molly becomes Mab.

Babylon 5's story was altered somewhat because of Michael O'Hare leaving the show after the first season.  JMS had to scramble to rewrite and did a good job of it, but personally I think it would have been even better if he had been able to keep to the original arc.  There were quite a few rumors not all of them kind as to why Mr O'Hare left the show.   The real reason was finally revealed a couple of years after his death, apparently he suffered from some form of mental illness that was difficult to control, his acting career was more or less ended by it.  It also explains his odd behavior at the few scifi cons he attended as a guest..  Very sad... 

6949
DF Spoilers / Re: Was Nemesis in Storm Front?
« on: June 23, 2018, 08:18:11 PM »
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Though with the Denarian traitor, Papa Raith having some sort of contact with Outsiders, there's always the possibility for individuals to be on Team Outside.

I always thought Papa Raith was possessed by an Outsider, and that is why he cannot be touched by magic seemingly except for the death curse placed on him by Maggie..   However come to think of it, she may not have placed it on him but on his Hunger demon.  He is still possessed by the Outsider which makes appear young etc, but his Hunger cannot get any nourishment no matter how much he feeds, which makes him weak.

6950
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« on: June 23, 2018, 03:45:41 PM »

 She is the original Leprechaun Queen, she is going to trade in her diamonds for a huge pot of gold and to to live by a stream somewhere in Ireland...  There she plans to wreck havoc with Brexit.. ::)

6951
DF Spoilers / Re: Was Nemesis in Storm Front?
« on: June 23, 2018, 03:41:00 PM »
Quote from: raidem on June 23, 2018, 02:13:02 PM
What I argue is that Nemesis, or more of it, was (or was meant to have been more fully) inserted into the world via the attack on Demonreach.  There may have been similar attacks at other times on Demonreach. One of these times the Gatekeeper may have participated in and in that event more of, or Nemesis crept into our reality.  And, Demonreach holds a grudge that a mistake Gatekeeper made, allowed it.

So I'm saying that Nemesis spread is similar or comes from same energy as the attack projected on Demonreach that allows the dissonance.  The Nemesis spread on Earth is analogous to the dissonance spread on Demonreach.  It is as if somewhere in reality, Demonreach may have fell.

If the Knights or more specifically HWWB servers the Lord of Slowest Terror, Nemesis may be some sort of projection of his body into our world.

I think you might be on to something, but I doubt that Nemesis acts independently..   I think it requires a vector to spread it, as in the case of Lea and the Knife, the Knife being the vector.   Once infected, the host suffers a mental breakdown for lack of a better name for it, which plays into the hands of the Enemy.  Some of us have gotten into the habit of blaming any evil or odd behavior on Nemesis, but I think it is more complicated than that.   I think there are players on the same team that comprise the "Enemy," Outsiders, Denarians, the Red and Black Courts, Nemesis is more or less a tool of the Enemy..   The White Court isn't so easy to figure out, some aspects of it seem to play for the team, it is possible that the Hunger Demon itself is part of the Enemy, but with varying degrees of success..  I think it depends on the family, Thomas must feed, but perhaps because of his mother and brother doesn't act like someone Nemesis infected.  Lara on the other hand is harder to figure out, she works strictly for self interest and plays both sides I think.

6952
DF Spoilers / Re: Was Nemesis in Storm Front?
« on: June 23, 2018, 11:13:14 AM »

  Maybe not in person, but those who are working towards the same ends..

6953
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« on: June 20, 2018, 11:27:45 PM »
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Everyone who thinks saving that wood and steel is more important than saving Harry and Waldo makes that same mistake.

  You miss the point of the carefully crafted set up, that is why as he beat the crap out of her, Nic took such pleasure in taunting her.  Neither Harry nor Butters were ever really in danger, Nic wasn't going to jeopardize his deal with Mab.  Harry saw through it, but wasn't able to warn Murphy not to attack.  Nobody is saying that life is less important than steel, but truth was, she wasn't saving anyone, she let herself be tricked and she went right where Nic wanted her to go.   

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Which brings us to the important decision and that is not what she did when Nicodemus did his mock surrender, she knew she was not knight material and that she would place saving Harry above saving a denarian soul. The important decisions were bringing the sword and risking it to save lives. That decision was made earlier.

Yes, she knew, but she was also arrogant, so arrogant as to think she knew better than Harry, or even God...  She was self proclaimed custodian,  not the custodian..  For the sake of argument lets go along with she was bringing the Sword to wield herself in spite of the danger she would put it in because with it she could save lives... But if that was the real intention, the opposite would have happened...  1] After the Sword broke, Nic would have beaten her to death, not just cripple her, oh he may have had Harry's skull crushed in front of her first.. No lives would have been saved..

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After that all her decisions were made under heavy pressure and she was following her nature. she did what she thought was best and she achieved a lot. She saved the day. She deserves recognition for that. Especially since I did not really read a better action plan here and we had years to think about it, she had to decide immediately.

No, she didn't save the day, she merely was played and got a Sword broken..

6954
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« on: June 20, 2018, 05:30:58 PM »
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Yes. I've seen this brought up as Murphy not trusting Harry, but Harry blatantly tells her that he's keeping things close to the chest—even when they're alone, in her house, behind a threshold. Aside from which, there's really no reason to tell Harry she's bringing the Sword anyway; it's not like he's going to use it. In fact, she brings out the "rocket launcher" and deliberately avoids calling it that; she just says it's something that'll make the Genoskwa think twice.

She may have thought that but seeing that didn't stop him from putting Harry's head between his hands to crush in a nano second if that was the plan..  Being behind a threshold at Murphy's house wouldn't protect them from Andril hearing and seeing the conversation..  Only at Michael's house, Mac's bar with Mab running interference, and just guessing, St Marys, would any conversation be safe.
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Even worse than that, look at the position she was holding Nic in. He was on his feet, with the Sword pointed at his throat. Murph was across from him, also on her feet. If she shifts at all to draw a gun—across her body, mind you—she loses the position, and Nic gets free. Nic is really fast; Michael considers him an even match against himself—a guy who is a professional Sword-guy. Part-time, maybe, but he puts in a lot of hours. Murphy is good—really good—which is why the ruse had some semblance of verisimilitude at all—but nobody's good enough to beat Nic twice. Hell, the moment she tensed up to kill him, he wriggled out of the danger, grabbed her wrists, and wrestled the Sword away fro

You are missing the point, it isn't about how good Murphy is with the Sword, or that she beat him... It is all about what she did after he surrendered.   It was about her saying "damn you," then attempting a killing blow, the Sword wouldn't allow itself to be used that way and the additional insult of breaking the rules got it broken.. Remember back in Grave Peril when Harry tried to kill Lea with Michael's Sword and it fell out of his hands?  Michael said it wouldn't allow itself to be misused like that,  Lea scooped it up to take to the party to bargain with for the Knife, and it was to be used in a sacrifice to be unmade... 
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And if she didn't use the Sword, but instead relied on standard weaponry, Nicodemus would've slaughtered her. It wouldn't have even been close; the Sword helps keep Anduriel at bay. Without it, Anduriel is free to shadow-stomp her.

The slaughter of Murphy was never the intent.... Once the Sword was broken Nic could have killed her easily, but that would ruin his over all plan so he merely stomped  the crap out of her... 
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I mean, what do you seriously think happens if Murphy doesn't arrive with the Sword? Nicodemus to shrug and go, "Oops! Well, that didn't go how I thought. Sorry about that, see you at the hide-out, no hard feelings!"? The idea is absurd.

Is it?  He knew the whole time through Andriel that she was bringing the Sword... That was the whole point of the set up..  If she didn't bring it, no chance to break a Holy Sword that day, so he'd merely bide his time to pull what he tried to pull once they got to the vault, the artifacts being his ultimate goal.. The only thing that really saved the day was Harry's double crossed his double cross with Goodman Gray...
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Even if she was able to beat him, it wouldn't have done lasting damage. He still had the Noose during the fight; he takes it off when he "surrenders"—which is what I think actually makes the Sword vulnerable, too. If he had kept it on, and Murphy knew that, I think the Sword would have remained unbroken.

She did "beat him" more or less, he surrendered, removing both noose and coin...  If she had called his bluff, well, he would have been screwed and nothing would have happened to the Sword.. However because of what he heard her tell Harry through Andriel,  he knew for certain that she could not resist the temptation to execute because that is what she sincerely believes he deserves...
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Butters deserves a big chunk of blame for the whole situation. He didn't have Faith (yuk-yuk-yuk) in Harry and Murphy's good intentions. It's only when it's restored that he redeems himself.

Yes, and to his credit, Butters admits that he is the blame for a lot of it...  And in a round about way  so is Bob, who knows what he told Butters about what the Winter Knight's mantle and what it does to the host...

6955
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« on: June 20, 2018, 04:55:43 AM »
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After removing the Coin Nicodemus ordered the execution of the man she loves.  I'd hardly say that she believes they deserve execution if they are actually seeking redemption, which Nicodemus was clearly not doing.  Murphy is not a blood thirsty monster.  If Nic's surrender hand been genuine, she'd have accepted it.  She only raised the Sword to kill him after he ordered the murder of her friend.  Nicodemus was protected because he removed the Coin, but he was not innocent, nor was he seeking redemption.

Whether or not it was sincere isn't the point, Cassius's surrender wasn't sincere either, yet Michael and Sanya had to accept it, those are the rules, it isn't their place to judge...  Didn't say Murphy was a blood thirsty monster, however she is a cop, seen a lot of bad people in her day and has an opinion of what should happen to them, she judged Nic and decided his sentence. That was her fuck up, regardless of her motives..

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If we are talking about qualifications to be a KoTC, then beyond doubt Murphy has fail. But just because Murphy has fail as a KoTC, that does not mean that her choice to pick up fid at the time does not saved Harry's life.

The 2 ideas cannot be mixed up together.

Yes, they can, because the rules are for the Sword, why they were made, doesn't matter if she was a Knight at the time or not..  She broke the rule that governs the Sword... As to saving Harry's life, it was a ploy on Nic's part to get Murphy to attack then he skillfully pissed her off enough to try and execute him with the Sword after he surrendered..  If Harry's death was what he really wanted, his skull could have been crushed in a nano second, before Murphy even got the Sword pulled out.. Or after Nic succeeded in goading her to break the Sword, he could have singled Gen to crush Harry's skull...   So no, her bringing the Sword along only put the Sword in danger, regardless of her motives...
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It does not negate the fact that there is no good options available and whatever path being chosen a price must be payed. Either Harry, Butters or Murphy has to die, or as what Murphy did, Fid is broken and Michael offer himself in exchange for Harry's life. Something has to give, because Harry decided to help Butters out and get caught in the action by Nick.
Neither here nor there,  given her feelings about the rules governing the Holy Swords, and she is very eloquent on that point to Harry knowing full well that breaking those rules could break one, she shouldn't have brought it.  She could have been just as effective with her gun, expert marksmen that she is and quick too... Talk about saving Harry's life, she could have put a bullet between Gen's eyes in a twinkle, more effective in saving Harry than attacking Nic with a Sword.. Nic the button pusher was effective in doing it on all levels, he played everyone like a harp on that day...  Only factor he didn't count on was Michael stepping up and Uriel putting his Grace on the line, that is what saved the day...

6956
DF Spoilers / Re: Murphy Mantle Madness
« on: June 19, 2018, 09:06:12 PM »


  I think it would be a huge mistake to try and give Murphy a mantle.. Then she'd no longer be Murphy.

6957
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« on: June 19, 2018, 06:12:41 PM »
Quote from: Avernite on June 19, 2018, 05:07:16 PM
The whole case is silly; in no sensible way was Nicodemus actually surrendering to Murphy. He was very clearly playing her, and I think it was a bit of an author's cop-out to break the sword for it.

And as Uriel says in Changes: whatever you do, do it for love. Murphy did exactly what Uriel recommended, and it worked out (as Uriel suggested), if different than anyone imagined.

   I think the point is, yes, Nic was playing her, he was well aware that she had the Sword with her.  She didn't know that
except under special conditions, Andriel sees and hears everything, so hiding the Sword only kept it from Harry, not Nic.  She couldn't see that she was being played, Harry tried to warn her even as his skull seemingly was about to be crushed.  So Nic knowing she had the Sword with her and how she felt about it, he set her up.   He did gamble a bit, his gamble was that she'd hold to her belief that he deserved death instead of a chance at redemption... So she raised the Sword, she judged, "damn you," she struck, breaking the rules and the Sword... Now, if she had called his bluff and accepted his surrender, the coin, and the noose, he would have been screwed like Cassius was... Or if he took them back and continued to fight, then she would have been free to lop off his head..

And yes, Murphy was forgiven for her screw up because she did for love... However that didn't make her actions right... I believe what Uriel told Harry in Changes was;  page 229 hard back

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Uriel said.  "Whatever you do, do it for love.  If you keep to that, your path will never wander so far from the light that you can never return."

Uriel was telling Harry that becoming Winter Knight if he did for the love of his daughter, his actions would not take him so far off the path, that he could never be redeemed.   Yes, love motivated Murphy, yes, it worked out with the Sword... However it remains to be seen whether or not she can make it back to the path to the light.  Same goes for Harry as far as that goes.   Time will tell.

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Well yeah. The idea was never to convince Murphy, or anyone else for that matter, that he was really repentant. If anything, the goal was to do the opposite. He made himself a "defenseless," and "surrendered" captive so that she couldn't kill him with the Sword, then made it blatantly obvious that it was all bullshit and used Dresden to make her really really want to kill him with the Sword, then pushed it till something gave.

Whether or not he was repentant when he surrendered makes no difference..  He surrendered, thus has to be give a second chance at life.. Whether he works at his own redemption or not with what remains of his life is up to him... This is what Michael explained to Harry when he was outraged that he and Sanya would allow Cassius to go free after he surrendered.   It isn't for the Knight to judge,  yes, if the bastard doesn't surrender, lop off his head, but if he does, he has to be given that chance at life to make amends if he so chooses..

6958
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« on: June 19, 2018, 03:45:29 PM »
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Silly indeed.

On the one hand we have Nicodemous's take on things, and on the other hand we have Harry's view on the matter. It is clear that Harry believes that his life, Butter's life and Murphy's life are in real danger during the incident.

Believing in Nicodemous is not only silly. It also makes Harry looks very stupid, and since Murphy learns most of her stuff about the supernatural world from Harry, I can't really blame Murphy for the mistake even in the impossible event that Nicodemous speaks the truth. If even Harry misread the situation so badly, Murphy making the mistake is only to be expected and since Harry is the one who invited her to be his partner in this game to begin with, Harry again being portrayed as a true idiot.

The idea that Harry's life is not really in danger, makes "team good" look so incompetent the entire Dresden files series become so much of a joke. that is how much damage the idea cause to the overall value of the story.

The idea is not worth the damage.

All of this ignores the fact that even before Murphy left her house she lectured Harry as to why she shouldn't use a Holy Sword...  Yes, it worked for C.I. but she didn't like being a sock puppet for an archangel, so she didn't want to be a Knight on a regular basis...  Most importantly she didn't believe in the rules that are set down for the Knights, i.e. she doesn't believe in the redemption clause of the rules.  That is, if the Denarian surrendered and willingly gave up the coin he or she would be let go to seek their own redemption.   She didn't believe that any of them deserved such a chance, they only deserved execution, thud her carrying a Sword thus put it at risk  for being broken... Then she ignored her own advice, Nic had nothing to do with that...  Yes, he played her beautifully and played off her emotions to achieve his goal of getting the Sword broken... It wouldn't have happened if she had left the Sword at home and I don't know, just shot him in the head to save Harry...

6959
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« on: June 18, 2018, 09:21:24 PM »
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My counter to this is that Murphy is the only one who's consistently pushing Harry to remain himself rather than submit to his situation. She wants his situation to be better, because Harry really doesn't like being the Winter Knight. Contrast that with Michael, who later in Skin Game tells Harry not to worry, because he's strong and tough and can stay himself anyway. While it's nice to hear, that's the kind of thing that gets someone stuck in the same place. It's sacrificing the future for the present.

Michael gave Harry confidence, Murphy's message didn't..  Sadly Harry has to think in the present, because if he doesn't and goes into battle against his powerful foes he won't survive...
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I agree and I disagree; I don't want her to pick up any power-ups, but I don't think it would make her forget what it is to be human, or powerless.

No?  Look what the Winter knight mantle almost did to Harry and he has been dealing with awesome power all of his life.  Remember it was said that Slate wasn't always what he turned into after he became the Winter Knight.  He couldn't deal with the power and temptations of it.  Murphy is only human, she as susceptible as anyone else to temptation..  She showed her weakness when she thought she could handle a Holy Sword after stating all the reasons why she shouldn't..   

6960
DF Spoilers / Re: Jim Q and A in VA 6-9-18
« on: June 18, 2018, 09:13:31 PM »
Quote from: groinkick on June 18, 2018, 03:52:18 AM
Wasn't he supposed to have lived a long time?  pretty sure only wizards get extended life, not people who have a little talent.

He lived a long time because of the coin, once he gave up his coin to Michael he reverted to his real age. 

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