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Messages - nadia.skylark

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511
DF Spoilers / Re: If the Denarians are trapped in Demonreach...
« on: March 22, 2019, 02:07:31 AM »
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I believe you misremember Michael's objections in Small Favor.

That's possible. Could you post a quote of that section, please?

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Wait, why is the host a factor in this? By far the easiest way for Fallen to end up in Demonreach is for Harry to chuck the next few coins he retrieves off of dead Denarians into the back of one of the tunnels. A live host is going to be putting up one hell of a fight, but scooping pocket change off a corpse is comparatively easy.

Wrap them in whatever blessed container it takes to prevent other Denarians summoning their comrades' coins back, leave a sign "Future Wardens: Do Not Touch", and basically forget about them. Whether they're meant to be in circulation or not, that's a free-willed mortal's choice to put them well beyond reach of anyone else.

It's an idea that I saw on an older thread: that because the coins are supposed to be in circulation, something would inevitably happen to release them from Demonreach (the same way they always manage to escape from the Church). Trapping the host as well was put forth as a possible loophole--the Fallen inside the Coins are still free to corrupt the people holding them (thus still "in circulation"), it's just that the Coins' holders are prevented from acting to spread that corruption any further.

512
DF Spoilers / Re: If the Denarians are trapped in Demonreach...
« on: March 21, 2019, 09:53:31 PM »
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Given what Forthill said about Michael needing a babysitter for his family, and (I think?) we saw Michael heading to the airport, plus Sanya and Shiro coming to Chicago, that "coincidence" can include things like "Got on a plane and tracked them down."

But not "found out that they were in town kidnapping and murdering people, and went to look for them." It's a little confusing, honestly. I once again don't have my copy of Small Favor, so I can't quote the scene, but the part where Michael refuses to track down the Denarians in that book always struck me as extremely odd--it would have been a rescue mission, after all, but apparently that wasn't acceptable for the Knights to do?

513
DF Spoilers / Re: If the Denarians are trapped in Demonreach...
« on: March 21, 2019, 08:51:34 PM »
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Exactly,  they give the coin holder a goodly chance at surrendering, giving it up to be free to redeem themselves or not with the life remaining to them.. If not, no problem at all giving the chop or stab and retrieving the coin that way...

True, but if the Denarian survives, the Knights have to give him/her another chance to repent the next time they run into each other--the Knight can't just kill the Denarian now just because he she refused to repent last year. Also, the Knights can't just hunt down Denarians and demand that they repent or die--they have to wait until they run into them by "coincidence" or the Denarian(s) is/are doing something actively objectionable. Given the time factor, and since they couldn't be doing anything objectionable locked up in Demonreach, I'm not sure how it would work. Could the Knights just ask the Denarians to repent, and if they refused the Warden would lock them up in Demonreach? Would the Knights have to visit the Denarian prisoners at intervals? What if the Warden just locked up Denarians without anyone asking them to repent--what would the Knights do then?

514
DFRPG / Re: Request A Character
« on: March 21, 2019, 03:53:18 PM »
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The question, then, is how quickly and easily they can flip.

Personally, I'd expect the flip to require a significant change to your whole outlook or to your allegiances.

I tend to think of it as more related to mindset. If you're really angry and just want to destroy things, you're probably using hellfire instead of soulfire, and so on. I'd treat not having access to the one you want as a compel rather than a mechanical difficulty switching over, the same way Harry's problem with subtle magic is treated as a compel.

515
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
« on: March 21, 2019, 01:57:40 PM »
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To this point in the book I have seen no support in the text for the idea that Nic knows of Nemesis.  I could be wrong.

For once I have this book!

Small Favor:
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"Have you not seen the signs around you?" Nicodemus asked.  "Beings acting against their natures? Creatures behaving in ways that they should not? The old conventions and customs being cast aside?"

I narrowed my eyes at him. "You're talking about the Black Council."

He tilted his head slightly to one side. Then his mouth twitched at a corner and he nodded his head very slightly. "They move in shadows, manipulate puppets. Some of them may be on your Council, yes. As good a name as any."

516
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
« on: March 20, 2019, 03:57:24 AM »
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Unless Jim is playing mind games the capitalization of the word enemy is important.  Make of that what you will.

Actually, it just occurred to me reading this that that's actually support for it being Nemesis, given that if it were the White God, Nicodemus would almost certainly refer to him as that or some variation*, and we know that speaking of Nemesis by name risks attracting its attention.

*Evidence: I'm pretty sure just before that when Nicodemus is talking to Michael, he refers to TWG as "your god" (I'm not 100% certain, though; could someone quote this bit? It's when Nicodemus is talking about Michael being trapped in Hades if he dies there).

517
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
« on: March 20, 2019, 02:13:24 AM »
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People can think whatever they like, it doesn't make them right.

True. Of course, this applies to everyone.

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TWG is the Enemy.  If we assume Lucifer and Nic have vaguely aligned goals (as shown by Lucifer aiding Nic in his attempt to grab the Archive) then Lucifer is, per Jim, doing something like playing a game of chess against TWG.  You gotta play the game to win it.  Nemesis wants to metaphorically toss the board and scatter the pieces.  And thus, while Nic/Lucifer may oppose Nemesis, the enemy is TWG.

This...doesn't make sense. The fact that Nemesis wants to destroy the universe which Lucifer needs intact would by definition make him Lucifer's enemy. TWG is also an enemy, of course, but people aren't actually restricted to having just one. Also, if I have one person who I want to prove wrong in an argument and one person who I know wants to annihilate my existence, I would categorize the former as my opponent and the latter as my enemy, if I were differentiating.

518
DFRPG / Re: Request A Character
« on: March 19, 2019, 05:50:03 PM »
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Pretty abusable, but that's more or less a moot point here.

I suppose. I wouldn't let anyone but a wizard buy it, though, and they don't usually have too many refresh to spare, so I figure that would mitigate it. After all, the 3 refresh they're spending on the sponsored magic are 3 refresh not spent on refinements, and that's even before buying any refinements for the sponsored magic to stack.

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To me, calling them two sides of the same coin actually suggests that you can only use one. If you're using your soul hellfire-style, you're obviously not using it soulfire-style.

Bit like a real coin, come to think of it. Either heads is up or tails is up.

Yeah, I hadn't meant that humans could use both at once--more like that they could flip the coin at will.

Edit: Although, actually, I could see combining both into one spell if you had access to both from different sources--you'd probably just end up having to take the spell's entire power as backlash or something else nasty.

519
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
« on: March 19, 2019, 05:46:42 PM »
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Oh I think that is obvious to everyone who reads the books.

Nope! There's a bunch of people who think that he was referring to Nemesis there (and they might be right).

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Deirdre is Nic's daugher, Susan was Harry lover, not the same at all...  Technically she was no longer Susan when Harry killed her, otherwise the reverse spell wouldn't have worked..  Deirdre was still herself when Nic killed her.

They were both people who loved their killers, and who allowed themselves to be killed for love. Their killers both used that love, plus a judicious bit of lying (possibly. If Nic was referring to Nemesis when he talked about the Enemy, he might not have been) to convince them to allow themselves to be killed even though it hurt all of them to do it.

Also, Susan's body might have been different, but in the moments she was killed she was clearly still herself--otherwise she wouldn't have let Harry kill her. She almost certainly would have become a different person eventually, but it hadn't happened yet.

520
DFRPG / Re: Request A Character
« on: March 19, 2019, 11:33:28 AM »
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The Summer Knight should have Marked By Power.

Thanks. Fixed it.

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Incidentally, why are you charging 3 Refresh for Summer Magic (and Hellfire on the Denarian)? Does it have something to do with the "stackable" note?

It's based on the description of Fomor magic in Paranet Papers. It costs -3 instead of -2, but you can stack refinement bonuses from it with refinement bonuses from compatible types of magic. I expanded it to other types of sponsored magic because I think it works well for a wizard, since they're combining sponsored magic with their own magic, and they should have more understanding of their magic than a sorcerer.

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Speaking of stacking Sponsored Magic, is it actually possible to have both Soulfire and Hellfire? Seems vaguely wrong to me.

I'm not sure. I've been mostly deciding on a case-by-case basis. For Denarian!Harry, I've been assuming he made his choice to save his daughter, and given Uriel said that thing about "whatever you do, do it for love" I don't think he would have taken away soulfire just for that (if he could. It's unclear whether Uriel could take away Harry's access to what is essentially his own soul based on a free-willed choice Harry made). On the other hand, Summer Knight!Harry lost hellfire when he redeemed Lash because Lash lost access to it. If Lash had kept the ability to give Harry hellfire, on the other hand, I don't think he would have gotten soulfire, because Uriel never would have given it to him in the first place.

(All this, of course, assumes that you don't automatically gain access to hellfire when you get soulfire and vice versa, which I'm not convinced of. WoJ says that they're opposite sides of the same coin, so I don't see why, if it's a human burning their own soul, they can't use both. I actually wrote up a power to this effect, but it's based on a different rules-system for magic that I made up, so I'm not sure how much use it would be to post it.)

521
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
« on: March 19, 2019, 03:08:45 AM »
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Come to think of it, since the Red King ripped the knife he was going to use on little Maggie from Harry's belt, why didn't he stab Harry while he was at it?  Or was he also totally stupid on the subject of iron and the fae.

Because that knife was obsidian, not iron.

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Here you go.

Thanks! This quote seems to make it clear that what is conveyed is words, plus an image of the person and where they are. Based on that, I'd say that any of Harry's feelings and thoughts not phrased as dialog would not have been transmitted to Susan.

522
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
« on: March 18, 2019, 03:08:57 PM »
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Thank you for the quote and the context, but I don't think it is the same..  Harry sounded conflicted. Here is what I am wondering, was he sending mixed messages to Susan in that moment? Is he so disciplined mentally that he could mentally send a lie while at the same time believing something totally different?    I think he sent that message with his doubts but it made no difference to Susan, she attacked anyway in her rage and she too wanted to save her daughter... Her own safety was the last thing she was worried about in that moment...  Actually it was kind of dumb really for Harry to even suggest that her armor would protect her, both knew damn well what would happen if she attacked, what did happen, she turned...

I'm not sure Harry was sending anything but words. There's a part in White Night that shows more clearly how his communication spell works--when he's trying to get in touch with Elaine. If I remember correctly, they could see each other and speak to each other, but I don't think there was any emotional transference (if someone could quote this bit, it would be great. I don't have my books with me).

523
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
« on: March 18, 2019, 04:34:08 AM »
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For that, I chalk it up to Nic just being wrong.  Harry bought what Nic said as well, before it was corrected for him, Deirdre most likely had much the same information Nic did, she was a true believer from everything we saw, and could very well have gone along with it even if she had known better.  I figure he really did think that she wouldn't be punished for all the horrors that she committed.

That seems extraordinarily unlikely. The Greek myths are not exactly unknown even today, and given that when Nicodemus was alive the Greek/Roman pantheon was being actively worshipped...

524
DF Spoilers / Re: How many humans has Harry killed with magic? 4+?
« on: March 18, 2019, 12:16:51 AM »
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It just seems odd that he is so into it and then with the crashed car and the wolfhound he never thinks about it afterwards. At least not on stage.

For the car crash, I had actually taken that as an indication that nobody had died. For the wolfhound, he did feel bad about it at the time--he just got understandably distracted by everything else that was going on that night, and by the time it was all resolved, I suspect that he just forgot. After all, he had much bigger worries by that point.

525
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
« on: March 18, 2019, 12:12:26 AM »
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But in regards to Diedre/Susan symmetry. As I remember it Harry also lied by indicating she would be protected from the knife by her fairy armor, even though he she would not be. That does sound a bit like Nic saying the enemy cannot get you here.

Definitely :)

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