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Messages - nadia.skylark

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No I haven't forgotten it.  But  Lasciel isn't Superwoman.  Harry defeats her fairly easily in Skin Game.   And Harry would have been up against Morgans sword which is designed to cleave magic and against the Merlin, who by Jim's word is the most powerful living wizard.

That's why what Lasciel would do is help him escape.

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Everyone was locked out with the wards the wardens put on the meeting place, Michael couldn't have gotten in until the fight was over.

The wards can't be that strong--there's no threshold. And if they were that strong I would expect Harry to have commented on it, if only in the same way he always comments on it when he's reminded of how strong the Merlin really is.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Exposure to Magic?
« on: April 03, 2019, 10:56:56 PM »
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How magic is conveyed to progeny is fairly well explained by the text of the books.

It isn't, really. The books say that magic is passed on through the maternal line, and then goes and has Harry's mom get her magic from her father. Jim has also said that none of Charity's children besides Molly inherited magic because she had given it up, but choosing not to use magic should not alter your genetic structure!

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If the first, Michael is traveling with half the Senior Council and they are followed close on by whoever was chasing them. It's hard to see how a fight would evolve out of the chaos of his arrival in this situation.

The idea here is that the fight would have already started, and that he would be arriving in the middle of it.

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In a close quarters fight Harry and Molly would have died quickly. That seems to be established.  Harry wouldn't have had time to take advantage of whatever Lasciel could have offered.  Reason demands that Harry would have had to make the decision to use either the coin or Mab's offer before entering the circle.  And he didn't.

You're forgetting Lash's time-slowing trick. So long as Harry can last a few seconds, there is time for him to call the coin to him.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Exposure to Magic?
« on: April 03, 2019, 03:06:16 PM »
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Though I'd argue that it's not necessarily required for womb exposure, just that it produces a powered kid more consistently. See Luccio's remarks about checking in on her descendants to see if any of them have talents—it's possible, just not as likely. I'm also reasonably sure that the Council would be able to track new talents much more efficiently if this was the case.

There might also be other kinds of exposure that work less reliably--living on a Ley line, having lots of faeries around, stuff like that.

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Harry has a rather low opinion of himself, I think. In Dead Beat, he works with Lash after he abandons hope, because he doesn't believe that TWG would think he was worth saving. The glimmer of faith he had was only because there was an ex-Denarian there. Harry never thought that TWG would care about him, only that He would naturally want a Denarian stopped. He doesn't think of himself as a good person.

In Proven Guilty, the person Harry respects most—and what Harry probably considers to be the pinnacle of human goodness—has his family at risk. Because he's such a good person, and because he's pretty much seen that TWG does like Michael, Harry has faith that TWG wouldn't let Michael suffer. That's part of the reason he's so furious in Small Favor, I think.

Good point. I hadn't thought about it that way.

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Then in Changes, Harry no longer cares about temptation, really. He's gone full Winchester-in-the-seasons-when-Supernatural-wasn't-awful, ready to do whatever it takes to protect his family. He'd still prefer a less mustache-twirly option, which is why he goes to Winter, but he'd do it if he had to. In fact, I'm kinda surprised he didn't go for the Coin, too. Winter Knight=strong. Winter Denarian=Stronger.

Hell, having Lasciel back in his head might be helping keep back the Winter Knight's baser instincts right now. Lasciel was more articulate, and I doubt she'd have stood for some of the more primal urges the Mantle pushes on Harry.

Definitely--or even only calling Lasciel's coin. I always thought that Lasciel or whoever the whisperer was messed that up--I believe that if Harry wanted to live through rescuing Maggie, he would have gone for Lasciel's coin because he knew there was an exit strategy. It was only after he was pushed into being suicidal that Mab started looking like the better option.

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DF Spoilers / Exposure to Magic?
« on: April 03, 2019, 01:55:32 AM »
So I've been trying to figure out how magic is passed down, because if it's only passed down from mother to child, then Harry shouldn't have magic, and I think I've come up with something:

There are two parts to inheriting the ability to use magic: genetics and exposure to magic in the womb.

You can get the genetic component from either parent.

You also need to be exposed to some degree of magic while in the womb. This is significantly easier if your mother is a magic user, because there is always some magic circulating through magic users even when they're not casting spells (based on the fact that wizards still hex things even when not using magic).

It's significantly harder to be sufficiently exposed to magic if your mother is not a magic user, because it requires that your mother be around multiple fairly powerful magic workings while pregnant with you. This explains why magic appears to normally be inherited from the mother, especially with minor practitioners.

This also explains why Molly inherited magic from Charity but none of her other siblings did: Charity wasn't practicing magic while pregnant with her, but she hadn't stopped long enough for magic to stop circulating through her yet. (After all, if it were just genetic, then Charity abandoning magic would have no effect).

It also explains Margaret--her mom wasn't magic, but was hanging around Ebenezer (since she was married to him).

In addition, it explains both why Maggie might have magic and why it would be influenced by her mother's vampirism--she inherited strong magical genetics from Harry, and was exposed to rampire energies rather than mortal magic while in the womb.

472
DFRPG / Re: Harry's pain-blocking stunt
« on: April 03, 2019, 01:46:10 AM »
Feel No Pain seems perfect!

How much of a discount, if any, would you give it for needing to take an action to establish it as functional before it starts working?

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DF Spoilers / Re: If the Denarians are trapped in Demonreach...
« on: April 03, 2019, 01:40:28 AM »
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Crassus didn't lose the coin, he gave it up, like the post says.

This.

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DFRPG / Harry's pain-blocking stunt
« on: April 02, 2019, 05:30:20 PM »
How would you write up a stunt to reflect the pain-blocking trick Lash taught Harry in Dead Beat? Would it clear a consequence? Prevent aspects associated with consequences from being invoked against him? Give him armor against pain? Temporary extra physical stress boxes?

I'm not sure how to model it rules-wise.

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It seemed to me that your premise wasn't that Michael wasn't coming (after all, you mentioned Michael); it was that there was a delay and there was an actual fight that broke out, and the heat got turned up.  My actual argument IS that Harry wouldn't pick up the coin in those circumstances - I pretty much made that my closing statement.  I stand by that. 

If you want to argue "What would happen if TWG wasn't going to save Harry or Molly at all," that's a completely different argument, because in Proven Guilty, Dresden's second-guessed TWG's plan perfectly.  That implies that TWG's personality and motives are different.

Ah. I think this is my fault. I was reading an older thread about this topic, and when I posted this thread I forgot to include the context.

What I was thinking about when I wrote was is a debate about whether, if Michael showed up either in the middle of the Harry vs. White Council fight or after Molly had been executed, he would be able to wield Amorrachius against the White Council without it breaking, because he would be fighting out of vengeance. I tend to think that in this situation, the Sword would at the very least not be operating at full capacity, and might very well break.

Thus, the context in which Harry might pick up the coin would be that either Michael has shown up and is losing (possibly with Amorrachius broken) or TWG's contrived coincidence thing was interfered with by other free-willed people and as such He arranged for Michael not to show up in the middle of that fight because He knew it would end badly for team good guys.

Does that make more sense?

476
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG: why Nicodemus wanted the knife
« on: April 02, 2019, 05:16:38 PM »
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Harry found multiple items on the table.  Nic specifically wanted the grail.  He killed his daughter and engineered the raid for precisely that purpose.  Did he know of the other items in any specific way?

It's implied that he actually wanted all five items, and the knife specifically; he's just pathologically incapable of being honest.

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My point is that I don't think there's any tactic Lash could take at this point that would result any differently - either being a source of aid or a source of danger.

I agree--I just still think that she was OoC.

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Yup.  Completely hopeless.  That's kind of the idea.  The greater the odds are stacked against, the more likely that TWG would be stepping in.

But given that my premise is essentially "but what if He didn't step in" this isn't really relevant.

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Yup.  Because here, he's taking Michael's leap, by proxy.  He's rules-lawyered himself into believing that the Almighty will interject, not on his behalf, but on Molly and Michael's.

And... he's not wrong.  That's exactly what happens.  Lash knows it, too.  Lash typically doesn't interact when she knows that rescue is just around the corner (for example, she could have done the exact same thing when Morgan was going to kill Harry in Dead Beat, and Harry decided to die.)  So the only way your proposition would work is if TWG is on vacation or something, and NO help is coming.

So your actual argument is not that Harry would never pick up a coin in the circumstances stated in my premise--it is that my premise is ludicrous and invalid.

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Even then, no dice - because even at the height of her influence at the end of White Night, Harry was fine being destroyed and letting his loved ones die rather than take up the coin.

Well, all the people he cared about had already escaped, and also he thought he did have a way out if he could convince Lash to take it.

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The only reason it's even an option in Changes - and not an option he ever chose - is not because it's just "an innocent."  It's because it's his daughter.  His hurt, scared, vulnerable daughter, and he swore to himself that he would never, ever, EVER let any child of his suffer.  Half-warlock darkling path teen Molly who would turn herself into a monster anyways doesn't get that same consideration.  Not by a long shot.

Point, although I wonder how much Harry might be influenced by not failing Michael--though that's admittedly a two-edged sword.

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I disagree with this "what Lash should have done" routine.  If Harry was any other moral - ANY other mortal that Lasciel had seduced in the past - this would have been the knockout blow.  Lasciel is presumably intelligent enough to have deduced where this trip is ending up.  Running Little Chicago is possibly the least dangerous of all the things Harry is about to attempt, and it's going to get his head blown to pieces.  Lash *knows* that she's not going to get anywhere with the "let me slowly guide you" routine - she NEEDS to offer him the coin.  She does his best attempt, and he refuses - and by doing so, accepts that he may die by his decision.  There's nothing else that she can offer.

The issue isn't that she offers him the coin--it's that she thinks hurting him is going to get her anything.

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The situation you pose is if suddenly there was a battle that broke out in the middle, when the Merlin declared Molly guilty.  Yet I don't see this as being any more hopeless of a situation than storming Arctus Tor, or fighting Eldest Fetch - in that they are completely hopeless, save for information that Harry doesn't have - that he has Summer Fire, or that all of Winter is away.

I'm not sure if it would be more hopeless or not, but I think Harry does. Harry specifically thinks that he's got no chance if a fight breaks out when he's talking to Charity beforehand.

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Lastly...  I feel like you're completely forgetting about Harry's last gambit - that this is, in itself, a leap of faith.  Harry places his faith in TWG, even if he isn't willing to really admit it to himself, that either he had the power to bring Molly back or that Michael was somehow involved and would appear.  When every situation got grimmer - learning that the Merlin had all the votes, that his defense of Molly was over-reaching, that the Merlin pronounced Molly's death - he got more resilient and audacious. 

I mean - there's absolutely NO reason AT ALL to demand that everyone must wait while the Gatekeeper makes his last vote.  The chances against something suddenly changing in the few minutes it would take would be trillions to one.  Yet Dresden DOES demand this, and they DO wait...  not because this is the only option available to him, but because Dresden actually has faith that TWG will pull through.

To think that things might suddenly get a bit spicy, and look dire, and Lash might do her time slowy thing, and Dresden might think, "You know, screw it, this faith thing seemed like a good idea, but I might as well turn into a monster after all to rescue this kid who CERTAINLY will turn into a monster without proper guidance, which I can't provide anymore - THAT is contrary to his character.  Because the more dire things look, the more certain Dresden is that those doors are going to burst open and salvation is on the other side.

You mean, like it was contrary to Harry's character in Dead Beat, where he explicitly said he was going to do the faith thing when he was being tortured by Cassius, only to turn around the moment he was freed and agree to work with Lasciel's shadow for the first time ever because he couldn't stand by while innocents were killed?

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DF Spoilers / Re: Nemesis and Hecate
« on: April 02, 2019, 11:32:16 AM »
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But if Nemesis (the Outsider contagion) is actually also the goddess Nemesis (and whatever else that might be) from Greco-Roman tradition that makes things interesting. Nemesis funnily enough is a goddess of balance, specifically Vengeance/Revenge.

I'm pretty sure this doesn't work. Being an Outsider would almost certainly preclude being an Insider minor goddess.

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Eye for and eye may have first come from her.

I think this actually came from the Code of Hammurabi.

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Why?

It's just so sloppy. I mean, she lives inside his head. She must know that pain is not enough to stop him, and that he'd rather die than abandon an innocent person in danger.

What she ought to have done, if she was acting in a manner consistent with her characterization in other places, is point out the problem with using Molly's baby hair, and optionally offer to teach him how to examine Little Chicago for mistakes to make sure it wouldn't blow him up. This would encourage him to trust her and rely on her for advice, which is what she's been doing in nearly every other scene in which she appears.

Also, I take back what I said about Lash not being well-integrated into this book. She is, mostly. On attempting to enumerate all the scenes in which she appears in this book, I remembered all the really good scenes. It's just this scene and the one at the beginning that stand out to me as being problematic.

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