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Messages - Griffyn612

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286
DF Spoilers / Re: [BG spoilers!!] Margaret LeFay
« on: October 25, 2020, 04:18:16 AM »
I'm still suspicious of Erlking, in the sense that I think he's got a second identity we've seen. 

I'm not sure what trouble Margaret would have caused the Erlking.  It might be interesting to consider what she would have been doing that would impact him. 

287
DF Spoilers / Re: The Next Book's Title
« on: October 25, 2020, 03:57:18 AM »
Can I put in a request to reconsider the book title?  Because this unintentionally fits with a speculative title from years ago. Especially if it's a combo of him dealing with mental trauma and hunting Beside.


288
DF Spoilers / Re: I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???
« on: October 25, 2020, 03:40:01 AM »
My thinking is that it was before, Grave Peril while she was held captive by Bianca.  Then like a encysted parasite or an anthrax spore,it slept in her brain, first metagating her mental health symptoms that were attributed to controlled feeding by Thomas. Nothing was noticed because it as so gradual, until it was in the perfect position to not only undermine the White Court, but the whole of the Accords.
We might find out eventually, but it seems like an odd choice to me.  Justine was a young girl dating the outcast son of the White Court King.  Lord Raith was clearly willing to use Outsiders, as he trained Madge to summon Behind.  I don't see the value in infecting Justine at that time.

As the book said, her getting infected when Justine got close to the leader of the White Court makes more sense to me.

And some people just unscrew the box and replace the hard drive.
That analogy would have to go with... Amanda Beckitt.

In keeping with the computer analogy, Starborn would be a combination of fire wall+antivirus then?
... This actually makes me think of Nemesis as something like the agents from the matrix, it can jump in and out of any hardware connected to it's primary system... Or would that be more like agent smith, who over writes the program already there with its own?
Beside would be a lot like Agent Smith, but I doubt Beside is as powerful as Smith.  Maybe Smith from the first movie, where he's limited to one host.  The mass host thing just seems wrong to me.

But yeah, a Starborn has built in protection against the Outsiders, which would be like having protection from his ports being manipulated.  His ability to control them or have power over them, which I think was mentioned by Lash, would be that his outbound ports are open to send power at them, and likewise they can't close their own inbound ports against him.

This makes sense to me and clarifies some things. The last one though leans towards your second observation - since HWWBs has had an active role in the background for much longer. So it being locked up in Lea was more like Mab didn't want her second infected and was 'burning' the infection out. And HWWBs didn't like being quarantined (as you say), but slipped out and got Maeve.
Yeah, I think Mab would have preferred Beside be trapped, but not in Lea. She's too important.

It does make me wonder if Mab's threat to get vengeance on everyone involved would include Harry, if his attack on the Winter Spring played a role in Beside escaping and infecting Maeve.

289
DF Spoilers / Re: I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???
« on: October 23, 2020, 01:37:25 PM »
@Griffyn612: How do you fit Harry's black magic corruption into your theory of black magic being an opening to infection? Was his corruption simply an opening that couldn't be used? I once thought that all black magic corruption could be nemfection, but I'm not sure that's possible anymore.
In computers, ports can be bidirectional, inbound, outbound, or closed.  If there is a port that allows Beside to look in, another port for him to whisper in, and another for him to take remote control, then for Starborn, those ports might work differently than other mortals.

For Justine, those ports might be bidirectional. For Harry, they might be outbound only, meaning he can send his message/power out at Outsiders, but they can't send it in to him.  He's got a built-in firewall/antivirus that has his system protected.

As a tentative hypothesis this has merit.  But Justine isn't a magic user.  What's her path to infection?
We're not sure when she infected, much less how. But my guess is that they used a vector.

My personal guess is that she was exposed to infection on that Fomor raid we heard about in Even Hand.  Maybe it was before that, but the text in Cold Days suggests otherwise, at least to me.

My guess is someone used something on her, like the Athame or hex belt, which (like a usb connected directly to a machine) installed Beside's protocols directly, without consent.

290
DF Spoilers / Re: I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???
« on: October 23, 2020, 04:55:53 AM »
Ok, that actually helps (I knew about ports and firewalls but I did not get your analogy). So, what would be the relevance of free will?
When you download an app to your smartphone or computer of your own free will, you're enabling it to do things to your device. Lots of people download apps like TikTok without knowing the things it does in the background of your device.  TikTok has code to access all sorts of things it doesn't need, which is why people are so suspicious of it.  And worse apps do all sorts of bad things.

The same goes (theoretically) in the Dresdenverse with magic. If you use magic, you're opening yourself up to power. If you use Black Magic, or specific types of Black Magic, then you're opening your spirit to that form of power.  And just like with computer, these openings can be bidirectional.

With both apps and magic, people can warn others until they're blue in the face, and developers/wizards can try to protect people with software/laws, but at the end of the day, the user/practitioner is the one that will decide, knowingly or otherwise.

291
DF Spoilers / Re: I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???
« on: October 23, 2020, 03:43:03 AM »
[
But until that moment on the boat, did Harry have any clue that Outsiders were Nemesis? Or why does everyone go all Lord Voldermort when it comes to naming the enemy? 

I can barely surf the net...  So now I am even more confused.. ???
If you have a computer, or tablet, or smartphone, then it has a piece of hardware (these days usually a wireless component) that connects to the internet. That connection goes through a router or cell tower.  But on a more granular scale, the device has logical "ports" that are like doorways dedicated to specific types of communication. Video uses one port, audio uses another, email uses another, web pages use another, bluetooth uses another, and so on, and so on. 

One of those types of communication is called Remote Desktop Protocol. If it's enabled on your computer, and the right software is installed, then I can take control of your computer from wherever I am. I can look at your files, run programs on your computer, and even destroy your computer if I'm creative enough.

Other methods of connecting would allow me to remotely spy on what you're doing. Others would let me modify some files and what they do. 

To prevent me from doing that, your computer has the ability to close the ports/doors that shouldn't be in use.  You can also have a device on the network that you connect to (a Firewall) that can further restrict what can get in and out of the network.

In theory, Black Magic is an app on your device that if you choose to use, it opens ports.  If the Hacker named Beside has gotten inside the Network, and finds the ports open, then he can try to install more software through them that will give him more and more access to your computer.

Or, if you're unlucky, someone can plug a device (usb stick, memory card, etc) that has the Hacker software on it, and that software is installed locally and gives over immediate access to all those ports that were previously closed for your safety.

In the magical sense, Beside does the same thing, but with the spirit/mind/body.  Black magic opens a path into the mind, which he can see through or listen or whisper.  The more he whispers, the more it opens to him, until he can fully possess and control.

Or, using a vector like the Athame, the paths are opened without the slow infection and without consent.

292
DF Spoilers / Re: I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???
« on: October 23, 2020, 03:13:21 AM »
It doesn't seem that complicated when you think in computer terms.

  • The Outer Gates are a Firewall that block almost all traffic from the Outside.
  • Free Will Summoning is a Firewall Port that's open to the Outside that allows traffic in.
  • Black Magic Use is something that opens local Ports on the user, which Outsiders can use to access the system.
  • HWWBeside is a Hacker who's gotten inside the firewall and can use Black Magic Ports to open more Ports on local systems, including Remote Access Protocol.
  • The Athame is a USB drive with HWWBeside's malware that will open Ports without Black Magic Use initiating the intrusion.
  • HWWBeside is likely hosted on a system inside the Network (Reality), which is his foothold.
  • HWWBeside might be able to pass from host to host if the right ports are open.
  • The question is if HWWBeside is limited to one system at a time, or if he can be on several.
  • The possession of Lea shown in PG implies that HWWBeside was trapped inside Lea at the time, but managed to escape her system and moved to another.
  • This could mean HWWBeside is limited to actively possessing only one host at a time, but it may be that he can be on several (my guess would be three) and he didn't like having one of his install instances/licenses tied up on a quarantined system.

293
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court clothing [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 18, 2020, 04:51:30 PM »
Quote from: vincentric link=topic=53873.msg2337283#msg2337283 date=16030
[quote author=morriswalters link=topic=53873.msg2337270#msg2337270 date=1603028209
It isn't clear.  She trades a favor for the gift.  She doesn't seem to be able to give him anything without that trade. But the armor looks to be a product of her enchantments. The fight at the dock is what called back the memory of the passage.  The two effects are pretty much the same. He's doing in the fight what the robe is doing for Lara.  The difference is in the degree.  Lara's robe functions are simpler as compared to the ring and the suit. I had asked early what Lara's first favor was. And it looks like this was it.
The suit does seem to be manufactured by her, based on his comments about it being worked with his own spells, just like he would have taught her.  But the uniqueness of the Raith shrouds is the mobility and independent action, which are not his spells and his suit did not exhibit.

Also, her first favor was asking to date Harry. So if Winter had any hand in making the suits, it'd be as a separate and unmentioned deal.

294
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court clothing [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 18, 2020, 10:58:28 AM »
She gives him a suit and a ring.
Sure, but based on the convo with Maggie, he clearly was expecting the ring, but not the suit.  The suit was a surprise, and therefore not what he asked for. 

295
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court clothing [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 18, 2020, 04:34:36 AM »
I can't say how the clothes are done but Jim told you who did it when Harry asked Molly to make his suit.And the impact of something hitting the clothes was used by Larry Niven in Ringworld.
That quote is about the doppleganger ring he asked for, wasn't it?

296
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court clothing [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 18, 2020, 12:53:00 AM »
But I could see him using that as an inspiration. I haven't read TBC past the first trilogy, but knowing his interest in it, I'm half expecting Mirror Mirror to be a world like TBC, with some regions of Earth controlled by risen old gods and demons.

297
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court clothing [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 17, 2020, 11:39:53 PM »
JB is a big Black Company fan and clothes like these were a big part of the last series of Black Company books. The main character even killed the Big Bad by pushing a bomb next to her while being wrapped in 3 layers of it.
Spoilers!!!

298
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court clothing [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 17, 2020, 10:52:45 PM »
More "flowy", yes. I think I've seen a comic book woman wearing something like that, covering even her face, but I can't remember where.
I feel like it's a common trope but I'm not seeing the things I'm thinking of.

The White Court is Etruscan in origin, it is the language they choose to converse in. The Etruscan’s had their own version of the Fates,  same beings different names to the Greek.

What if the cloth was a gift from the Fates? A Ravelling as opposed to an unravelling. Given that The Queens of Faerie are inheritors of the Greek Fates (amongst others) it may explain what Winter wants with an alliance with the White Court, they are revisiting an old association. Oh and the God of War in the Etruscan Pantheon, the Ares equivalent is  Laran.

I think that the White Court arise out of something that happened in relation to Erus (Eros) and Psyche,  the original Whamp being a scion of them or their daughter Volupta/Hedone corrupted somehow. Psyche is depicted with butterfly wings (Psyche is Greek for butterfly) it’s no accident that is how we see Thomas depicted in Grave Peril.
I've had a hard time finding anything specific to Etruscan or Roman mythology, but there's one thing that might be quasi-relevant. 

The Velificatio effect.


In the real world, it's just an artist's stylistic device used to denote divinity or royalty.  It means "vigorous movement," or "the vault of heaven," both of which would be good to describe mobile garments made to defend the wearer.

Maybe in the Dresdenverse the motif and name was inspired by real fabric that powerful beings possessed.  And as the White Court royalty, House Raith acquired some?






299
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court clothing [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 17, 2020, 10:09:47 PM »
I imagined it more like a symbiont, like Venom, only white.
That's probably like how it functions, but not how it looks.  But part of the question is, are the clothes sentient? Or is it just magical programming?  And what power source?

300
DF Spoilers / Re: White Court clothing [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 17, 2020, 09:21:11 PM »

What is really creepy about them is they are described as "shrouds."  This is usually what is wrapped around the dead..
I think they're supposed to be like body wrap linens. Fashionable ones, of course, because the White Court would stand for nothing less.

I'm picturing something like this but in all white.

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