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Messages - Griffyn612

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181
DF Spoilers / Re: I wonder how long Raith has had his protection.
« on: June 19, 2021, 08:40:44 PM »
I'm in the camp that says Raith made a deal with Beside for protection at a very young age, which helped him ascend to power centuries ago.

I think Maggie's curse worked because it targeted his Wamp demon and not him. I'm guessing he made the deal for protection for himself, and the demon is separate enough that it wasn't included in the umbrella because of some technicality.

182
DF Spoilers / Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« on: June 19, 2021, 01:43:05 AM »
It does make you wonder if Harry's going to start carrying crystals around, to be ready. Some of us speculated that he could put a piece of Demonreach crystal into his pendant like his mother's stone, to use it as a foci.

183
DF Spoilers / Re: Marcone could probably beat Harry in a duel.
« on: June 18, 2021, 10:37:25 PM »
Marcone didn't like the odds in Battle Ground and declined and it cost him the Eye and his castle.
Makes you wonder about the convo between Marcone and Namshiel at that point.
M: Can we take him?
N: Most likely. But he did wipe the floor with my previous host who had years more experience than you.
M: Not today then.

184
DF Spoilers / Re: About those Titans
« on: June 18, 2021, 10:33:30 PM »
I don't think they need worship. They existed before humans did per Ethniu so that wouldn't really work. They're elementals, beings representative of primal forces. Like Dragons, they need no direct worship. Only continued knowledge by humanity of their existence. Or to put it another way, the things they embody are part of reality, of existence to humanity, ergo they can't 'unbelieve' them. Unlike the Queen's, who have taken the power upon themselves, but do not necessarily represent it in it's entirety. Man's the winter queen, not the queen of the artic and antarctic. Per recent Woj the queen's are mostly northern hemisphere, relying on liaisons with the southern wild fae. Where as the frost Giants were probably winter in it's totality.
I don't know. On one hand, the oldest generation (Ethniu's dad) might have been angels/Aspects/Avatars that don't require worship or humans; they just exist(ed) with their own power tied to their nature.

But the Eye of Balor ran off terror and fear. Maybe papa Balor could fuel it on his own without help, but Ethniu needed the boost of fear to charge it.

Seems likely that each generation lost a bit of their Powered by their Nature fuel and grew more dependent on Human Interaction fuel.

That fits with the Hecatoncheires being Titan-spawn and them being able to make armor from Mordite. They are kind of half of the Outside half of the Material, then the later Titan-Spawn (what we call Gods) became more tied down to the physical world. I think Dragons come from the middle layer. They are lesser than Angels but greater than most of the Gods.
It seems likely that the eldest generation predated reality, and time, and are therefore beyond the limitations of those born within both.

Uriel, the Fallen, and the Walkers might be the only ones we've seen in the series that fit the bill for that. Everybody else is a few to many generations down the line, up to and including wizards as very diluted progeny.

185
DF Spoilers / Re: About those Titans
« on: June 18, 2021, 04:35:38 AM »
Combining the unifying theory with the elephant theory, I'd say there's a good chance the dresdenverse proto-gods were fallen angels (similar to grigori) that birthed mixed offspring that became later gods. But in my use of the term angel, i don't mean to restrict them to Abrahamic interpretation, but just the idea that there were Avatars that embody universal laws. Like Serack talks about.

That's likely why Ethniu was calling the angel sponsoring Butters "traitor, coward". They might have been equals in a sense, if not identical things then similar in make and function, and Ethniu chose goddesshood and the angel choose service to the Light.

186
DF Spoilers / Re: Marcone could probably beat Harry in a duel.
« on: June 18, 2021, 04:22:25 AM »
The theory is that Namshiel's previous host was infected, which calls everything he did into question. If so, then the choice of holding the Archive captive on the island might have been intentional to try to screw with the defenses there, since we know Beside is interested in the place.

But more to your point, if Namshiel's host was infected, or even a Beside host, then depending on the timing, he could have been responsible for the attack on Arctis Tor with hellfire.

I mean, I'm a fan of time traveling Harry doing it, but even I have to admit that the old Namshiel seems more likely than Harry or Namarcone.

187
DF Spoilers / Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« on: June 18, 2021, 04:16:32 AM »
I thought it was interesting she ripped a large section of steel from the boat in Battle Ground....  Nemesis appears to be able to enhance his hosts abilities to some extent.
Sure. It's probably similar to a mantle. It's more or less abiding by laws of inside magic, particularly when enforced by a starborn. Harry used the rule of three to demand Before and Beside's names.

Justine is probably suped up like Harry with the WK mantle. If he hadn't been exhausted, he probably could have defeated her then and there.

Hell, if he'd just kept quiet about his suspicion and told Alfred she was an uninfected m invited guest upon their arrival, he could have trapped her.

188
DF Spoilers / Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« on: June 18, 2021, 02:07:19 AM »
I like the Lord Raith history, and Cowl's too.

Not sure that I am convinced on the 3 parts of Nemesis or the order of events, but it's an interesting take.

I think we haven't seen the Walkers full power yet. I think that will be available as things get more chaotic.
I think the Walkers are limited by their hosts to some extent. Before was in a human (Vito if you accept the tongue-in-cheek WoJ) and jumped ship as soon as the body was damaged beyond repair. Beside couldn't really control Cat Sith, likely because of built-in limitations thanks to the Sidhe rules. And Justine is just a human, so she's probably got caps on what can be done with her body.

If we see Before and Beside in better bodies, they will probably be more of a threat.

And if they ever get actual pieces of their own bodies inside reality, then I'm sure it'll be on Lovecraft levels of madness.  (That's what I expect parts of the capstone trilogy to be like. Post-apocalyptic a la The Black Company, with regions of the earth falling to demigods and outsiders and all the other dark things)

189
DF Spoilers / Re: It didn't make sense to me (Harry/Starborn/created)
« on: June 18, 2021, 01:49:04 AM »
groinkick is making an unwarranted assumption. I don't know that the Council ever thought Maggie was crazy.

We have one place in the text where all the players were at a table and talking.  At that meeting where Maggie pitched an idea.  Eb said he didn't want whatever and that she shouldn't either, which isn't the same as saying the Council might not be interested. What is interesting about the dinner is the attendees, the Blackstaff, the Reds, Papa Raith and Maggie.
It's just speculation, but Eb also called Justin an associate of Maggie's, so I suspect he was there as well.

190
DF Spoilers / Re: No wizard ever???
« on: June 17, 2021, 02:07:13 AM »
It doesn't speak to the question.  The context is the foreshadowing of Harry becoming the Winter Knight.
Or her sacrificing Harry on the table to try to get his starborn power. Either way, not good for him, and I didn't see anything saying no wizard ever had been sacrificed there. So it might be moot if we're correct.

191
DF Spoilers / Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« on: June 16, 2021, 01:33:57 AM »
With all the buildup it's gotten that'd be a bit disappointing.
It'd be only one aspect of the plot, and only the motivation for one mortal participant in an eternal war between gods.

In my mind mind, Cowl being a cackling mad wizard trying to give reality over to Outsiders so he can lick their feet is a bad motivation. Anything humanizing and relatable that gets twisted by corruption would seem to be better.

192
DF Spoilers / Re: Young Wizards
« on: June 15, 2021, 11:04:01 PM »
If I'm a young wizard that has survived the Council being at war for fourteen years, in which time I've seen two Senior Council wizards murdered, the captain of the wardens body-swapped and demoted in duties before being accused of murder, her apprentice killed after being hunted for murder, two thirds of the wardens slaughtered, hundreds of innocent bystanders slain, other young talents turned warlock and beheaded without having been instructed on anything, and watched the impenetrable Council headquarters compromised twice in as many years by a mistfiend and plague curse with casualties on both occasions, with countless masters and apprentices dying around me in battles and assassinations, with rumors of dark wizards betraying the Council and breaking laws, all because one wizard drew the Council into a war because of a personal grudge with a vampire he didn't like, while he sleeps with another vampire and acts as executioner for the evil Sidhe queen and kills a Sidhe queen and performs necromancy without punishment and commits genocide of a species that leads to further upheaval and opens the door for another faction to gain power until they openly attack a major city and kill tens of thousands of humans...

At that point, as a young wizard turned nearly middle-aged battle-scarred veteran that just wants a break...

I've got no faith in any of them.

193
DF Spoilers / Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« on: June 15, 2021, 10:38:03 PM »
He had bad dreams about his wife dying in Childbirth you see...
Exactly. And now he's got great plans for his new empire.

194
DF Spoilers / Re: No wizard ever???
« on: June 15, 2021, 04:40:10 PM »
I don't recall Lea saying no wizard blood had been shed there. Do you know what page it was?

195
DF Spoilers / Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« on: June 15, 2021, 02:59:34 PM »
Then the question is, what does Cowl want to do? Is it merely "I want to be able to practice black magic to my hearts content and kill, control, and otherwise do what I like to people as I am god-king" or is it more around the fact the Council won't allow any political interference, persecute even minor infractions with serious and sometimes fatal results, have no real court of appeal and an overly simplistic and out-dated legal structure, let alone the outdated and overly simply and often unrepresentative voting system, and governing body that is effectively immune to criticism or change?

I mean, if it's the later you can hardly blame the guy. The Council if it existed in our world would be a disaster of an organisation. I suspect though it's a bit of both.

If Cowl is Cristos, I doubt he will continue the charade much longer. I'd expect reforms that benefit him and his supporters to happen, probably while he politically or literally kills his opponents.
If I had to guess, Cowl had altruistic motives for getting into necromancy way back. Maybe he wanted to bring someone back. He made a similar pitch to Kumori, who also likes the idea of being able to stop death. But Cowl was corrupted by the dark side of the Force magic, probably due to dabbling with outsider magic, and he's gotten worse because of it.

Then it’s now time for a schism. What is a pope without an antipope?
We almost had it at the end of Turn Coat, with Cristos "the savior" threatening to take a third of the Council with him if he didn't become Senior.

I'd be surprised if there's only two sides in the inevitable White Council civil war (which book is that going to dominate? It doesn't really seem to fit any of the next few book pitches).
I don't know that we'll ever see it. It'll probably happen mostly off-screen between the end of one book and the end of the next.

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