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Messages - g33k

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151
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: February 03, 2025, 04:03:28 PM »
... she doesn't want any crap from him...

It's not a matter of "want" -- The Queenmantles are much stronger than the Knightmantles.
And Mab has been subject to one for about 1000 years.

Mab cannot help but punish Dresden's defiance; the demands of the Mantle are her ever-fixed mark.

152
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Lash still be alive?
« on: February 03, 2025, 03:55:44 PM »
I too have suspicions; not of "Lash" surviving, but Lasciel's Shadow.

The core purpose of the Knights of the Cross, after all, is specifically to oppose the Knights of the Blackened Denarius (and to save the mortals who have taken up the coin).

Only 2 of the Swords are wielded at the moment.  Both Knights were in play at the Battle of Chicago...  And, very specifically:  across the entirety of the battlefield, both came to that little alleyway  to fight against Harry Dresden when he lost his temper and would have killed Rudy.

Uncontrolled rage was one of the early signs of the Shadow getting into Harry's mind, influencing his actions.  We can say "But the Knightmantle..." and we can say "But watching Murphy die..." and neither of those is demonstrably "wrong" at all; but also, what if those are just "excuses" that Jim wants us to accept?

I return  to my central observation:  all of the Knights in the world were in the field at that moment to stop Harry Dresden; the Knights whose core purpose is to oppose the Denarians.

153
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: February 03, 2025, 03:51:24 AM »
Yes, as Queen, Mab does outrank her Knight, Harry, but when has a little thing like that stopped Harry?  No, she was giving him a firm lesson on who is the boss.
My point, though, is that I don't think the Winterqueen mantle permits Mab to allow the bearer of the Winterknight mantle to perform certain kinds of defiance; at least, not without rebuking him.

She actually likes his defiance... "finally," she says, "a knight who's worth the effort."

154
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: February 02, 2025, 02:51:20 AM »
I think she knows who and what Harry is, but he doesn't know who he is, so she is establishing who is boss.
The "Queen" outranks the "Knight," and dominance-games seem endemic to Winter.
I don't think Mab can help herself.

OTOH, I think Mab has largely lost touch with her humanity.  Harry keeps surprising her, and she regularly underestimates (is surprised by) those who still have theirs, such as Lady Winter Molly.

155
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: January 26, 2025, 08:04:17 PM »
... Perhaps, but I believe Jim did a little retcon with Mab. In Changes I believe she explicitly says she is not cruel, but in the first books that is not the case.

Cruelty, of course, is relative.
The old joke goes "How do you punish a masochist?  You don't spank them."
The idea of "tough love" usually involves a cruel-seeming behavior.
etc.

And then, of course... we're talking MAB, the Queen of Winter.
And, infamously, "winter is cruel" (it's a stock phrase).
Except it's not -- winter is impersonal; it just is what it is.

Mab can be absolutely horrific to somebody, without it being "cruel" on her part.  Mab stands largely outside those human perspectives and moral judgements.  "Simple human kindness" is another stock phrase; but it has nothing to do with Mab!

So, as awful as early-book Mab was to Harry, she wasn't necessarily being "cruel" to him.

I'll also bring up my WAG that this is part of a multi-generational long-game plan of Mab's.  Old as she is and Guardian of the Outer Gates, she knows about Starborn, and that the cycle has come round again.  So, my WAG is that Mab laid plans -- likely beginning about a century ago -- to gain a Starborn as her Winter Knight, to combine the inherent Starborn Outsider-resistance to the Knight she has during this most-dangerous of times.  She didn't just "stumble upon" Harry as a good candidate Knight -- she arranged for Margaret to learn about Starborn phenomenon, and to become "LaFey."  She arranged for the Black Council to target Margaret as a Starbabe mother.  She arranged for Malcolm's death, and Harry's vanishing into the orphanage system, and Justin to adopt him.  Some (perhaps most or all) of this may have been executed by her Handmaiden, but the intent behind it all was Mab's.

So early-book Mab was very much in the late-stage part of her plan.  And at that point, she was all about shaping Harry; at that point she needed (or at least thought she needed) Harry to see her entirely as the Evil Queen(tm), in fulfillment of his expectations.  What she was actually doing was crafting her new Knight.

If she had thought it would work better for Harry to think she was "kind," Mab would have acted in a kindly way, without feeling any kindness towards Harry.

156
DF Spoilers / Re: Molly’s trial… what if…
« on: January 24, 2025, 04:10:59 PM »
...  5] We are basing this monster crap on the fact that Slate ...
No:  Harry based his decision on knowing that Lloyd Slate was a monster, and that Mab would also try to monster-ize Harry.

I'm not saying that Harry has become a monster; but he made that deal in the expectation that he would.  He lives now in the hopes that he can resist, but the fear that he won't resist.

Nevertheless:  at the time he made his choice, Harry fully-expected that choice to inevitably turn him into a monster.  He believed it so thoroughly that he contracted with the 2nd-most-capable assassin he knew, to kill him before it could happen (the most capable being the Blackstaff, who he expected would refuse to kill him).

... while Harry did chose to become the Winter Knight to save his daughter, he did not chose to become a monster ...
You say that like it's two separate things.
Harry chose to become a monster to save his daughter.
He just chose (what he saw as) the least-monstrous option available.
 
... and Harry would have died, but Mab and Uriel made sure that he did survive ...
You're forgetting Ivy.
Ivy helped Harry survive, too!  I'm unclear if she was read-in on the actual plan, or if Uriel whispered the inspiration into her ear.
 

157
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: January 24, 2025, 03:05:02 PM »
I really like this idea. I feel like Jim usually has the next couple of books in his head at any time so he could definitely had started this multiverse idea back in Cold Days with the Molly car scene. Based on it and the continuity errors we've seen, I suspect that there will only be a few timelines that are dealt with or that interact with other. It'll be more like Fringe than Rick and Morty in that respect.

Jim has said that, from the beginning, he had envisioned 20 novels + BAT.
The PT/BG split pushed it up to 21, and the next book "Twelve Months" is new (not in the original plan), so he's now calling it 22 +BAT.

That's not to say he had every detail of every book solidly planned out.

For example:  Butters was originally planned as a strictly comic-relief minor character; his whole "magic Batman" personna, all the "spotlight time" as a big piece of Harry's "Scooby-Gang," becoming a KotC, and the male-fantasy-throuple with hot-werewolf-babes, that was all unplanned.

For example:  Jim didn't know, as he started Changes, which "power-up" Harry would choose when he needed it.  It was only after writing some, that he realized the WK was the one to pick; but before that Jim had considered both Lasciel's Coin & Kemmler's Dark hallow to be possible ways to write it.

158
DF Spoilers / Re: True Love as Defense against White Court Vampires
« on: January 23, 2025, 04:19:00 PM »
Necro'ing this (sorry... notsorry) with another thought.
1st Corinthians 13:13 says:
Quote
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Per the WoJ quoted previously, we have a definitive answer.

But I wonder if that was one of those occasional lies he uses.  Like, sure... "True Hope" addresses despair, and the Hopeful will burn a Skavis-whamp; but perhaps (I suggest) so will Love.

I'm not at all convinced of this, but Jim has given us plenty of signals that he's drawing heavily on the Bible for large swaths of his world-building, and "love" in particular looms large in the Dresdenverse...

159
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: January 23, 2025, 03:54:49 PM »
Nevertheless, Harry isn't free.  Just for a current example, there's the compulsory marriage to Lara...
Nevertheless, Harry isn't free.  Just for a current example, there's little Maggie -- and Bonea -- and his responsibilities there.

Nobody is "free" in the sense of being unencumbered by any obligations to others.

Harry's obligations to Mab run a bit to the brutal side of things, it's true.  Still, it's the life Harry chose.

160
DF Spoilers / Re: Molly’s trial… what if…
« on: January 23, 2025, 03:47:18 PM »
We are all capable of making wrong choices, that's what free will is all about, nothing automatic about it. Even saints are capable of screwing up once in a while. However which is a mere mistake and which is a clear deliberate choice?  In other words emotion of the moment type mistake verses that of a calculated cold blooded monster?

Harry made his choice:  he chose to be a cold-blooded monster, back in Changes.
He fully-expected that the wintermantle would make him a monster; he chose that.

He attempted to mitigate his monstrous choice by having himself killed; but that wasn't a sure thing, he knew he might get (un)lucky and survive.

When his elaborate suicide-plan failed, and Uriel whispered hope into his ear, he chose to go on.

161
DF Spoilers / Re: Molly’s trial… what if…
« on: January 20, 2025, 01:55:53 PM »
...  Langtry apparently really believes that warlocks always backslide, sooner or later.  From that POV, killing Molly early could save the lives and/or sanity of multiple potential victims later. 

I don't think Langtry believes that it's an "always" just "mostly" or "almost always."

But that you can never be sure, and it's not worth the risk.

It's much like the infamous "trolley problem" from moral philosophy.  Langtry is always going to throw that switch, kill the one person (who is probably warlock-bound) to save the many whom that warlock would have killed.  And if, on a (very) few occasions, that person he killed would not have gone warlock...

Well.
That's regrettable, to be sure.
VERY regretable.

But in the balance-ledger, he has saved hundreds, thousands, maybe even millions (because that's how bad a rogue warlock can get).  Arthur Langtry is OK making this choice.


162
Really?  I have to go back and read it, if I remember correctly Harry didn't know what it was...
Harry didn't know at the time of the Soulgaze.
He figured it out later.

... his responsibility for what happened to the girl hasn't done anything to make him a better person.  He has done little to atone for what he did that ruined her life, and that of her family ...
Except, he has.

He's continuing to keep the injured girl safe.  He's actively pursuing everything he can find to restore her.

His "but no children" policy (around crime) comes more-or-less directly from having harmed a child originally.

And he has taken on Beckitt, and is doing his best to protect her, while her daughter is vegetative.

Has he completely reformed to become a "good person"  No of course not.

But Harry learned (via Soulgaze) about this deep core element that fundamentally informs Marcone and gives him that extra bit of drive.  And later deduced that the accidental shooting of Amanda Beckitt was that deep core.

163
DF Spoilers / Re: A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors
« on: January 20, 2025, 01:26:23 PM »
...
For Harry, being enslaved by Mab is by definition bad.  The fate of Lloyd Slate alone is proof enough of that.
Harry thinks so.

But he's not actually "enslaved."  He's caught in a bargain he cannot currently escape from; but it's a bargain he substantively got to shape, to set some baselines.  He's continuously pushing back against Mab, standing up for what he thinks is right.

And we have the word of both Mother Summer and Uriel, that Harry can keep being Harry, can keep on pushing back, keep on being himself.

164
DF Spoilers / Re: Molly’s trial… what if…
« on: January 19, 2025, 08:12:57 PM »
  I think Molly would have still become what she became.  The flaw in Harry's training wasn't that he was too gentle with her as far as fighting goes, but that he failed to make her understand that she cannot mess with the minds of others.  Actually Eb, as Blackstaff may have ended up executing her himself for breaking that Law of Magic.  She may have fared better with Listens because she had a tendency to want to be a healer, then again would she have learned the main lesson about the thing that almost cost her her head to begin with?

I think it's more that Eb is too rigid; apprentice-Molly needed some flexibility from her master.  I expect LtW could have done a good job.  Both of them would have realized (like Harry did) that getting her to feel -- in her gut -- how dangerous mind-magic could be... that would be the only way to keep her from spiralling on down the black-magic path.

That, or a Faerie-Queen mantle...
 

165
DF Spoilers / Re: Twelve Months - What our you expecting from it?
« on: January 17, 2025, 08:47:40 PM »
... I think that it is about harry and molly getting rid of the winter mantels.
I don't think so, no; for several reasons.
1/ Jim has stated that 12M will be several other things -- it'll be Chicago-centric, Harry building bonds & community (very-possibly with little-Maggie elements, e.g. education, friends/playmates, ets... maybe even concerns from Illinois' "Children & Family Services") -- it'll be about Harry's grief & trauma, losing Karrin (& everything else he lost in Changes), the psychic assaults over the years, and so on:  grieving-Harry, ptsd-Harry, stressed-parent-Harry, etc... it'll be about Harry/Lara and the WinterKnight/WhitePrincess "courtship" as they squirm on Mab's hook attempting to not-disobey-Mab (but also not have a Winter-shotgun wedding).
1a/ I still think that Mab's primary objective (in ordering the marriage) is to throw her Starborn-Wizard-WinterKnight into the Whampire Court (where Papa Raith had Outsider-summoning rituals for his porn-starlet-sorceresses to use, his own personal Outsider-fueled antimagic wards, and where (it seems) Justine got Nemfected; and let us not forget Vitto Malvora's Outsider magic) -- the Whampires look to be absolutely riddled with Outsider influence, and I think she expects Harry to improve that situation.
2/ Part of Harry's whole arc is a suite of power-ups to be a viable player in the BAT.  The  WK-mantle is a big one.  I think he'll keep it 'til the end.  Harry has no way to play in the BAT leagues without the WKmantle or similar.
3/ Keeping both Harry&Molly subject to their mantles keeps the Harry/Molly sexual-torment available as an element for Jim to include.  No narrative tension, of course, as they can't follow through... unless some sort of Whamp-y / etc element makes one or both lose control; the risk of that would be its own "narrative tension" (but I don't think Jim wants to play in such a rapey playground).  Jim's a creative boy, though, and it's still a character-tormenting element, so I don't rule something in this arena out of the picture.
4/ Kringle hinted to Harry (in Cold Days) that "masks" (by which we can reasonably infer "mantles") can be put on & taken off.  I think we'll see a LOT of that in "Fight Night" which apparently has a bunch of godlings & former-gods feeding their adulation-fixation as pro wrestlers... the whole "masks" thing is HUGE in pro wrestling
5/ There are so many deep & unresolved Winter connections to explore, and the WK-mantle keeps Harry locked into them (among other things, I'm hoping/expecting Mother Winter (at some point, not in 12M) to order her Winter Knight to "Fetch me my walking-stick, boy!" (I do not believe Harry yet realizes this is the Blackstaff artifact).

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