@Hank
I do recall a WoJ or something about the LoOns doing that. Although that being said, I wonder what actually constitutes a false god in the DV. I imagine a god as a being with the ability to create new life - so the Red King was a god in a way since he created the whole Red Court. I would not consider the LoOns to be gods (despite their desire to be worshipped as such) - they were created by the Red King & hence less powerful than him.

Agreed, they’re both barriers - one is metaphysical & the other is both physical & metaphysical

You're wrong on both counts.

1.) All the denarians use magic, though some are certainly more proficient than others. Nicodemus' shadow leaping off the wall to strangle people is definitely a use of magic to kill. The same goes for Quintus Cassius, who was one of Nic's liutenants and explicitly a magic user with his snake-intensive spells.

2.) In Cold Days, Harry tries to get Murphy to bring a Sword, who refuses, saying explicitly "This isn't their fight". Also, if you think the use of Swords against the Ramps has anything to do with the outsiders, I encourage you to re-read Changes. It's explicitly stated that they're being punished for being "false gods".

3.) I'll add another point. Outsiders cooperate, they do not fight. The direct quote is "Outsiders; they work together, all of them". This means that, in your black magic=outsider influence model, all properly corrupted black magic users should be working together. Cowl, who is clearly aligned with the outsiders, was competing against and fighting Grevane and Corpsetaker, who are very obviously fully corrupted by black magic. It's obvious that they are not working with outsiders, or they would be cooperating 100% with Cowl.

Hmmm.... you seem to be misunderstanding my premise here - I’m not saying that all black magic users are automatically aligned with the Outsiders & their plan. My take on the black magic is connected to Outsiders theory is simply that the taint on a person’ soul from repeated uses of black magic creates a link of sorts to the Outside - whether or not this link is explored by either party is a different thing entirely. My point in this thread is just that the average mortal practitioner cannot likely summon Outsiders, you need to have a black magic taint on your soul in order to be able to do so.

Outsiders can only likely interact with black magic users who seek knowledge from beyond the Outer Gates, so it is not surprising that all black magic users don’t work together or have any desire to. Some of them may even be against Outsiders - but we have seen no mortal wizard of any significant power who is a regular black magic user actively oppose the Outsiders in the series so far. I believe this is because they have all sought knowledge from beyond the Gates in order to become more powerful.
Just because Grevane & Corpsetaker wanted to attain the Darkhallow doesn’t mean they knew that the Outsiders are allied with Cowl, or indeed that Outsiders are involved in DB at all - they seem to think that the only real contenders for necro-godhood are the other 2 necromancers since it was a prize ‘discovered’ by their mutual mentor, Kemmler. Suppose Corpsetaker or Grevane ‘won’ in DB, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Black Council would just make a deal with either since they have common foes (like the White Council) - we even see Capiocorpus allying with the Fomor in GS, & they are likely to have links to the Outside.

Regarding your point about the Swords. The quote you bring up in Changes actually explicitly states that the reason they are there is because of the Ramps’ “crimes against the Mayans & people’s of the world”. False gods is a descriptor - by this logic, Odin is also a ‘false god’ but the Swords don’t seem to have an issue with him or Hades.
In CD, Murphy is right - Fidelaccius would have been vulnerable if it would have been brought to Demonreach for the fight. Maeve had hoodwinked Lily, Fix & the Summer retinue into believing her Nfected version of events - if Murphy had used the Sword on any of them, I believe it would’ve made Fidelaccius vulnerable to destruction since it would’ve been a morally murky decision (given that the Summer party is doing what they believe is their job) - & we see in SG that Murphy can be manipulated into making a bad decision. Additionally, there was no need for the Swords since Starborn/ Warden of the island Harry (whose purpose it is to protect Demonreach) had Odin & the Erlking (Mab’s peer) along with the Wild Hunt with him. In Changes, there were no morally murky decisions to be made - it was war, not a surgical strike, hence 2 temp KotC along with Sanya were present.

About your last point regarding all Outsiders working together - this is just what Harry currently thinks - he may be wrong (I don’t think he is, just pointing it out).

@Bad Alias
If it were Nic/Anduriel acting, I’d imagine there would some element of Mab & Uriel working together to obfuscate Harry’s location.

@Con
If the WoJ is true, then @morriswalters version may be the right one (although I’m not convinced of the sequence post Maggie’s death).

While I don’t like SG Butters at all, I understand the overall point JB is trying to make with his character arc in the novel.

The way to look at SG Butters is to contrast him with his foil in the novel - Michael. By the time of SG, Michael is in more or less the same/ worse shape than Butters on paper - he is also powerless (has given up the Sword & is crippled from his SmF injuries) & likely has some inkling of what the Fomor are upto in Chicago. The difference between Michael & Butters is that Michael has faith - in both TWG & Harry.

I think that Butters’ arc in SG is supposed to say more about how TWG works in the DV than Butters’ lack of faith (since it is glossed over & not really referred to after the event, despite it leading to Murphy getting crippled & losing the Sword/ perhaps more). Butters at the point of TWG is fighting the good fight, but he is aware that he is losing - the Fomor, Lara & Marcone are all growing in power while the BFS isn’t faring so well. Naturally a sensitive, bookish introvert, the violence & loss have hardened him & made him much more cynical in his worldview. That he is viewed as a low-level information gatherer & not a warrior, he is likely left out of the loop by Molly, Murphy & Thomas on all important things (like stuff concerning Harry). As a result, Butters has lost faith in both TWG & Harry. The point of his being made a KotC is to restore that faith.

JB has noted in the series that a defining characteristic of a hero is being willing to risk your life against overwhelming evil because you believe it is right. In SG, Butters is doing that (albeit avoidably) when he gets caught.
One can argue that given what Butters believes (that Harry is living out a Pet Cemetary scenario - our issue in this thread is whether Butters should think this way) what he does is rather brave.

It is said that the difference between a brave act & a stupid one is results - this one didn’t pan out for Butters since Nic & his cabal are a much more formidable bunch than the Fomor yahoos running around Chicago post-Changes.

@nadia
Fair enough, perhaps instead of the word ‘judge’, I should’ve said understood. Because of his Christian morality, Michael is inherently distrustful of anything that isn’t faith magic (no doubt his experiences in fighting non-Denarian evil like rescuing Charity have made an impact). While his protestations against Harry’s use of magic declines over the series, I always got the feeling that Michael trusts Harry’s integrity to not get corrupted by the forces he is wielding rather than believing that magic is generally ok.
I also completely agree that Butters’ reasoning for his mistrust was childish in its lack of complexity & nuance, which is odd because Butters is quite intelligent. I do hope that he ends up paying for his stupidity in SG at some point. While his actions put Murphy on a path to realize she wasn’t right for the Swords, the way it was done was downright silly - especially the fact that Harry takes the blame for it.

@Mira
Completely agree - the way things went down with Nic in SG will weigh on Murphy in the next few books for sure. It will likely add some depth to her character since I foresee her role in the series going forward changing. Perhaps this will be the pivot used. Perhaps it will make her less annoying as well :-)

@huangjimmy
While I get your point that Michael is still a fallible human being, I think @nadia is right in pointing out that Michael is basically as close to a saintly person as we are going to get in the DV. I also agree with your point that given the info they had, Murphy, Butters & Michael we’re right to be suspicious of Harry in CD, SG & SmF respectively.
I can’t really think of any serious mistakes made by Michael in the series either, which is odd because almost every other character makes some big ones (& generally pays for it).

@nadia
I guess it’s possible if the Fae in question is able to reconcile the goals of the Grey council with that of its Court & then wishes of the Queen. Given that we don’t really know what the full agenda of the Gray Council is, it’s hard to tell if someone like Eldest Gruff could be on it without violating one of Titania’s many rules (such as helping Harry - could a Summer Fae have shown up at Chichen Itza in Changes without violating Titania’s rule about Harry?)