I agree with the OP, but getting some of the others to agree with will not work. Most of the long time players think the fate rules are good rules.

They do not reflect with any accuracy, what wizards can do in the dresden world, not even close. If you look you can find me posting similar arguments that you have posted. Most of the responses i get are of the kind that will force your characters refresh so high that he becomes unplayable. It is always yes you can do it but add some refresh. Before you know you have a a 15-20 refresh character just so he can do some of the stuff in game that dresden(who i think is a lousy wizard) can do. dont even try to do what the merlin can do.(if you recall he tossed up a ward on the fly that held off the entire red court, i think that included the King but cant remember. In any case it was truely impressive.)

Examples include the alphas, non magical people learning to do one spell that harry dresden cant do and you could never do with thaumaturgy or evocation in game in any meaningful way without spending at least 8 refresh to get something good out of it. And yet in all the games i've played in all the books i read in all the movies I watch wizards can almost always shapechange. No with Fate rules.

In my game I allow any castingst that are 1/2 or less of your conviction and refinement and focus levels  cost no stress. its part of the evocation package no additional cost. That means if you have conviction of 4 you can can as many fireballs or fire whatever as you want if you only use half your strength. Its not until you really try to pull off something big that you need to worry about stress.

With this rule you can do some of the stuff carlos did in white knight and still take things down, still have enough umph to keep going when your wounded or out of stress. He  nailed crap loads of uber ghouls he finished them off killed them outright in some cases wounded and tired. One uber ghoul would give an in game wizard crap loads of trouble.

Mecanically there is no difference between  5 conviction spell and a 1 conviction spell if your conviction is 5, this is stupid. Both cost 1 stress. So other then control issues you never have a reason to cast weaker spells, they both tire you the same.

Over all I think the magic mechanics need a complete rewrite for the game. Fate rules are a mistake for the dresden world. Way to limiting, not in what you can do but how often you can do it.

Basically your a level 3 d&d wizard for the entire length of the game.

In the end as the OP has noticed if you dont like the rules you will be told to play  a different game, which in the end I did. Its sad really one of the best urban settings ever created is saddled with the worst rule set I have ever encountered.. We can only hope when the license runs out another group will get a shot at recreating the world and rules.

For sponsor debt? The GM. He is the voice of the sponsor so he is the one that tells you what the offer is.

if its self sponsored who does it then

Overall, I'd say your last claim is true.  But on this particular issue, the rules do NOT do a good job of representing the novel's version of Dresden's world - not up to the point of Small Favor, and definitely not after that point.  There are other points where the rules also break down - such as Spirit evocation being so much more option-heavy and thus more powerful than the other elemental evocations.

in all the novels hd has to understand how to do something before he can do it storm front good example

If I were to let a player get away with one point of sponsor debt like that I'd make sure that when it comes to paying it back that they're going to suffer for it regret it begin to rethink their decision to give up some free will for power. The way I've always looked at Sponsor Debt is that the more you take out, the more you have to pay at the end (from a narrative point of view), so if a newly minted Winter Knight were to level a skyscraper with one spell I'd have Mab then show up and order him to do something that is both interesting and very, very dangerous. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch, especially when you're a Faerie Queen's bitch Knight.m

that only applies to sponsored magic not the self sponsored kind no such limitation with self sposored magic

That's one of the things that set the Mage games apart, though. The fact that your magic is literally rewriting the way reality works - to the point that reality itself hits you with backlash. It's also better from a verisimilitude point of view, since it explains why most still don't believe in magic. Plus it gives the whole Masquerade, hiding from mortals an ironic twist - unlike most supernatural beings who deliberately try to hide themselves, like vampires, the mages (the good ones, at least), desperately want to reveal themselves - but can't, becuase the universe literally will not allows it.

Oh, and for Ascension, the creators themselves outright stated that they weren't going to try for a modern version for Ars Magica, and never inteded to, though IIRC this came after they sold off the Ars Magica copyright. This brings up the old joke: When Mage: the Ascension came out, everyone was pissed because they were expecting a game about modern-day hermetic mages and instead got a game about consensual reality. When Mage: the Awakening came out, everyone was pissed because they were expecting a game about consensual reality and instead got a game about modern-day hermetic mages.

I ttosses out paradox it was stupid and inconsistant across the e tire world of darkness setting especially with the revamp of the series. The idea of paradox and the realm of reason  just doesnt work if the reality already contains magic. The best option has always been just hiding it like dfg dont create artificial rules that only one group of magic users havebto abide by.

Yeah, as Cadd says.

But you can also just cast a spell that's, for example, 4 shifts over your discipline and conviction, which would mean that you'd have to take high amounts of casting stress and backlash to get the spell off the ground, but instead, you ask your sponsor to take that instead. The general rate is 2 shifts of stress for 1 point of debt, just like invoking fate points, though you could just as well bargain that your sponsor takes the entirety of the spell for 1 point of debt. That's up to how your table likes to deal with this.

this where it gets a bit op imo.

Erm... modulo that we're talking "medieval (through renaissance) view of wizard-who-studies-in-towers" version of wizards, I'd have to agree.  There are other versions of wizards, that ArM doesn't do so well.

such as
 i mean it has decent rules for the creation of magic items spells self enhancement. it covers the time needed to do these things. Its rules allow for fast casting and normal casting by combing spheres you can use it anywhere for anything. Id love a way to make use of it in a modern version of ars magica. I know the world of darkenss mage game tried it but they screwed it up and world of darkness always ruins things with there goth/emo crap. Yes you can call dwn lightning but reality itself will attack you. (except everything else could use their magic without reality biting them in the ass.) Mage the awakening did a better job with more focus on rotes but still reality bites mages in the ass(but not the other criters)

your probably right but ill keep trying. I just love the books. I just wish he would have used a different game system. I don't like the game system at all.