1. I think Mavra has been holding off for years. Sometimes as author's add new scope to a series and new rules, they can find clever plot threads to explain holes. Such as when McCoy puts a magic lock on Mavra. Quite the trick, yet rarely attempted. And not just because McCoy is Senior Council level wizard. I suspect Mavra (in that book) was not written as powerful as she became later. Numerous characters experienced power-slide over the series and she was one. She may well have had other motives to be there, indeed Cowl does state many things of importance happened there and I am sure we haven't found out anywhere near all of them.
2. As we only see things from Harry's perspective, there is no way to know whether they (Cowl and Mavra) were working together or otherwise. I also believe that there is potential to use Time Travel to explain inconsistencies - I think there is even a WOJ on it from a while back. I also think Cowl and Kumori, like Mavra, prefer to be power behind the throne/scene people. Allows them greater influence and freedom. Cowl clearly doesn't like to draw too much attention to himself, same with Mavra. Neither are Ferrovax level - who just gives zero F's.
3. I think that was explained that they were looking for an excuse for war, and a hot-headed inexperience member of the White Council was a prime target. It was not the value of Susan to the White Council, but rather her value to Harry that made her a tool. I don't believe they thought for one minute Harry would leave Susan. But even so, I think it was also Bianca flexing her muscle (under Ortega's attention). It was a test - could they act perhaps more openly without fear of consequence. And also just in general - revenge for Bianca's dead servant and humilation for the Wizard who so publicly embarrassed her. Remember in the Supernatural world, there is a big thing of respect and honour. Bianca had to restore her standing after losing it so early just after being promoted.

JB constantly says he is a lazy writer. And it strikes me if he is going to the effort to name something, he has a good reason behind it.

Now Hecate is a MINOR goddess of the Greco-Roman Pantheon. And that is interesting because considering how powerful the Faerie queens are (which are hinted to be/or highly connected to Hecate) that gives us a few options. Option A is it is because Hecate got a lot more powerful over time, or was assisted by multiple other beings (gods). This seems most likely considering a few WOJs about why the Fae became what they are. Option B is that she was also much more than simply Hecate. And then there are a few other options I suppose based on the few theories about what gods are.

But if Nemesis (the Outsider contagion) is actually also the goddess Nemesis (and whatever else that might be) from Greco-Roman tradition that makes things interesting. Nemesis funnily enough is a goddess of balance, specifically Vengeance/Revenge. Eye for and eye may have first come from her.

Jim likes to use parallels a lot - and a nice counter to the Hecate (as the Queens) might be Nemesis. But then - wouldn't it make sense if Nemesis was not one being, but several? And who fits that description better than the Walkers. But even if they are not - Nemesis as an angry greek goddess getting revenge make some sense. Certainly one female vs another female is quite.. poetic (for want of a better word). It has a certain symmetry.

But then if that were true - where are the other gods? Jim has said some have died or faded, and some are asleep. And perhaps that is true. Hades exists but then his power apparently has not the effect it used to to have.

Something bugs me a lot about Hecate being so powerful to split into the queens (originally 3). Hecate in the myths is a powerful yet minor goddess of magic. But she isn't anywhere near on the level of Zeus or Hades etc. So if they are dead or less powerful these days - how did she come to outrank them so massively. 

So I have a theory. It is based on several WOJs - particularly the ones about how the beings don't change, just our understanding of them.

I think the Almighty is the Almighty. But to different cultures he is/was Zeus/Brahma/Ahura Mazda/Odin/Ra etc.

And there must always be a Creator/Almighty.

The Devil then, is the Devil. Angra Mainyu/Ahriman/Surt/Ymir/Apep/Apophis/Lucifer/Set etc.

Then there are the major deities Archangels/Mothers/Thor/Hades/Poseiden/Uriel/Michael/Osiris/Shiva etc. There to help govern reality.

Then there are the minor gods. Angels/Hecate/Bast/Baldr/Agni/Queens. They carry out the orders of governance and maintain smaller parts of reality.

Dragons depending on the Dragon, can be Archangel level or minor god level.

And on and on the tree goes. But I think as powerful as any being is - mortal belief in concert is very very powerful. So it changes them, based on how we mostly perceive them. And they fear that, because it changes how they interact with us. Almighty is always the Almighty, but he can't be Zeus when interacting with us. So what is left of that belief goes on being Zeus (either fading or dying) like a discarded limb it falls off the Tree that is the Creator and becomes it's own tree or it dies. Perhaps someone even picks it up and wears it, trying to gain power or influence. That is what I think Odin is - he isn't AND is the original Odin - now that Odin is not seen as the Creator he cannot be the Almighty but he can still be that mask that interacted with the world. So he can still be Odin, just not Odin (the Almighty) unless belief allows him to be again.

Thoughts?

I suspect that Hellfire is a property of Lucifer, a corruption of soulfire, and that if you use it, you get it as a boon from him.  By invitation only.I will go one step further and suggest that Namshiel couldn't use  all the power actually available to the Fallen, if the Fallen were released from the coin.  The power of the fallen resembles the mantles, in that the more you use it the deeper into it you go.  The Fallen are most powerful in their alternate forms as the host gives up more of their identity.  This plays into how Jim Butcher treats the Winter Mantle.  In the battle on Demonreach Harry is fighting  the tendency to draw too much power from the mantle at the expense of his control of it.  Butters is only half right about the mantle.

Possibly at any rate, I am sure Lucifer was the first to use Hellfire at any rate. Whether another angel could have done that/could access it without Lucifer remains to be seen - I think it is more of a how you see the world type thing.
I think you are essentially right, from both a logical and doylist perspective. It makes the most sense for Butters to be only partially right. But I don't fully trust Jim any more. I think he has changed his view (in his writing) about how powerful his devices are - so I am not totally on board sadly. Bit of a cynic, me.

To be honest, I just took these to be delusion. Hellfire made Harry's magic hit harder, and the Winter Mantle really DOES make Harry stronger.
Butters just doesn't really believe it, and his denigration of the Winter Mantle helps Harry feel more like a dummy being abused by Mab and his own bad choices, which is all but a hobby of his. So Harry tries to believe it too, and as a result thinks Hannah is also duped.

I mean, Harry ran on super-slippery ice, and jumped, and whatnot. He did things that are normally physically impossible... and all without digging very deep into his Mantle, after about 1 year of practice. Imagine a Knight none too worried about his soul pushing the Mantle to its limits for a decade.

Look, I would like that. Certainly, the exposition by Butters and Harry doesn't cover everything that mantles/sources of power have been able to achieve. So I do wonder about that. Although it just as easily could be Jim didn't feel the need/forgot to tie up every loose thread with his new explanation. I am very sure if someone were to ask Jim did Harry's spells hit harder because of Hellfire, he could explain it in such a way that is was clear that it was more about making Harry more angry than anything else. You have to remember Harry has achieved incredible stuff magically when his emotions are heightened, and there does not seem to be much of a qualitative difference (apart from which emotion he is tapping into) between when he draws from Hellfire or Winter than when he just draws from his fear and anger (like the scene where he killed all those Red Court vampires). Especially when Soulfire spells are clearly very different to any magic he can simply do under pressure - they make his spells more "pure".

But yes totally agree it doesn't cover everything. Butter's hasn't seen much of the crazy strength stuff - but then again, he would hardly need to. The explanation for Harry lifting 800lbs is mostly that having a crap load of adrenaline in his system and without the natural limits of pain, exhaustion and fear the human body is quite capable of pushing past it's normal limits. The running better on ice could be less physical and more mental than it appears (for instance, if it made his decision making and logic predicting parts of his brain run faster, more efficiently with less error he could naturally achieve that - half the reason we fall and run into things is our brains predictive functions are not accurate or quick enough).

Fcrate - that was the idea originally. Unfortunately we have seen very little evidence of that. I disliked the explanation too - but I think Jim went to the effort of writing that scene, so he was trying to get a point across to us. He could return to his original idea any time but we will just have to wait and see.

Snark Knight - Interesting thoughts. I think so too, it plays into the whole selfish vibe that the villains of the series have. My theory is the Fallen are unable to use Soulfire per se, as they are no longer connected to Heaven, and also perhaps because they have no desire to create anything original. Only destoy.                                                                           

The frustrating thing with the later books is Jim took the soft approach - the dumbo's feather approach - on a lot of his power ups. In Skin Games Harry talks about how Lasciel isn't making Hannah Ascher any more powerful really, she just stirs up her passion (which Fire magic comes from) which makes Hannah think she is more powerful.

Same with the pretty weak explanation from Butters about how the Winter Mantle doesn't make Harry any stronger really, it just dulls his pain and gives him more access to his more primal self and makes it more easy to use Ice magic.

Bit of a cop out, especially considering the opposite side seem to get an actual power up (e.g. Fix gets fire magic, where previously he couldn't use fire magic. Also when Harry uses Soulfire in more complex ways it really boosts the efficiency of his spells and achieves much more exceptional results). Seems like Jim did a retcon of his previous ideas for one reason or another...

Exartiem - I don't think that is true exactly. Dark magic in the Dresden Files seems to have an inherently "evil" quality beyond the intention or mindset of the user. If that were not the case, as you say, then anyone with a complex moral compass could avoid the adverse affects the dark magic has on users. Bear in mind most people do not think of themselves or their actions as "evil" even if the majority thinks they are. In the Dresden Universe there does seem to be an absolute moral authority defining "good" and "evil" regardless on how one might think about the moral quality of an action.

Mildly incoherent this morning, but in the interest of random gibbering. 

Quite fine! I do it all the time! Helps get the ideas out.

Jim has given us some hints of the structure.  Model the Never Never like fluid in a pipe.  The water doesn't move at the surface of the pipe.  The Never Never is the water touching the pipe. The boundary between Creation and everything outside it.  The further away from the pipe wall the more stable reality.(evidenced by time being variable in the Never Never)

Really curious about this - do you have know where the quotes are on Nevernever structure? If I understand you correctly (the Water is the NN, the Pipe is Outside? And what is the Reality/Universe in that example?

Given that the Sidhe don't have free will they aren't part of the multiverse.  Humans only thank you.  Human reality is like a tree with many branches.  Each new branch representing a choice, but not all choices.  Only important ones.(Vadderung in Cold Days referencing his model of temporal inertia)  The Mothers can see the tree grow and branch.(Cold Days referencing Harry learning of the Adversary)

I think I understand your view, as explained in your follow up post, that most Fae (being quite mortal) could exist in several realities but the really powerful Fae (like the Mothers) are so powerful that is unlikely there is more than one (which is why they can "see" all the branches of Creation). Though I have a theory that Immortals might only have just one of themselves - but we will see.

Why do the Outsiders want in?  Who knows.  But it could be more about opposition to the Creator rather than any property of Creation.  Jealousy maybe?  Or maybe they are a property of the void, anti Creation.  Model this as entropy with the Outsiders representing the Heat Death of the Universe.(Empty night.  If Jim loves physics, then as the universe expands there comes a point where there would be no stars to be seen in the night sky) 

Sorry for going on

No no, going on is good. Gave us lots to discuss! Quite so - it could be about opposition to the Creator, in fact I think in all cases that is highly likely. The question is why. I believe it because Creation itself makes them uncomfortable, or in outright pain. Jim has hinted at this - see the WOJ on Reality being noisy and loud. They (for want of a better word) ARE natural. They are not synthetic. They may represent Chaos/Disorder/Anti-life but that is what they ARE. Their sole reason for existing. Like a swarm of locust or a plague - but sentient. And as the current thinking is starting to go towards that EVERYTHING has a form of "consciousness" (on a massive spectrum of complexity - humans are highly complex, an atom is very low complexity etc) that would actually make a lot of sense.

The Heat Death theory as Empty Night is interesting. I always interpreted Empty Night as dissolution of reality; non-existence (no stars, no matter, no energy, no time, no anything at all). Which again I think has been hinted at in the books. Mother Summer says that should the Outsiders get in everything stops, and Vadderung says something similar about the Sleepers being released. Also the fact that when the Mothers are discussing the new branches appearing, the idea that even the Destroyer (MW) would prefer bright futures to Empty Night suggests that even Death and Destruction would be irrelevant. In such an event - as Time would be rendered meaningless - it would be as though nothing had ever existed or would ever exist. Creation ending would be a pretty crazy event - scientifically speaking, let alone magically/spiritually.

Bad Alias is pretty right, not all possible realities yet exist, depending on how many choices are currently available to mortals. Even though Fae can't do such a thing perhaps (as their will is not entirely Free, like Angels - which Jim have said have a measure of Free Will, enough to rebel anyway) I wonder whether the River People and Big Foots/Yetis etc choices affect Creation in the same way as humans.

It's too confusing to explain in a direct fashion so, consider seven branches where the Red Cap exists.  He's needed to fight at the Gates.  How many Redcaps answer the call and show up at the Gate?  All seven?  If there is only one gate, that is the question you're left to answer. 

Jim has hinted at something like this with Toot Toot.  When he needs to know Russian, he knows Russian.

I think your premise might be false there...I think there is more than Outer Gate (bear in mind Harry just saw one Gate) and they are called the Outer Gates plural. So I think each parallel version of Winter/defenders of Gates exist in each reality separately. So if the Red Cap is to defend the Gate, he defends his Universes, not Spider Man's or an alternate Harry Dresden timeline. Think on the fact that Jim and several characters have reminded Harry that within the Contiuum of parallel Earth's/Universes that Spider-Man, Star Wars and Alternate Harry Dresden all exist within Jim's multiverse. Jim even once made a joke (with a wink) that who would write several novels in separate Universes and actually secretly have them all connected in the same Multiverse (btw this is not uncommon, many writers have done this, and this story smacks of when he talks of how he created the Dresden Files when he didn't realise how crazy it was to write a massive 20-something book series).

Where did you get that hint on Toot? Very interesting info there if true. I think we can safely assume the Adversary did not get every Aurora as there would be still an nemfected mantle in play. Aurora's human self (assuming she was a scion or mortal who received the mantle, and not like Toot or Leah and comes from the original stock) is not multiverse spanning. That is impossible by the nature of Free Will - you cannot create choice if you exist in all possible choices all at once. I agree that mostly your choices are made well before you choose them (the same discussion around consciousness also discussed how it is likely that most of our "thinking" is actually done like computers do - in back of house systems that are far faster and more efficient than our consciousness, and so our choices are made long before we realise even in the moment, let alone in advance. It is our illusion of being self aware that creates the problem here) which is our advantage over the humble atom or even a mouse - we can be aware of what we are thinking and doing and change. That in itself is very significant - and how you might "cross the road" as you put it.

And yes your post did make sense - I found it very intriguing.

It unlikely, the way I see it (unless Jim is severely rewriting mythology, or just got it very wrong) that anyone but Mother Winter could be either Skuld or Atropos. Which I understand the issue, because the youngest of the triple goddess should be Skuld (i.e one of the Ladies) but clearly the mantle fits better in Mother Winter's Death Aspect.

Here is my interpretation. We see the Queens as separate - because we view the world through Harry's limited human perception. However the "truth" could be that ALL of the Winter Queens are Winter (of which Mother Winter is the least human) and ALL Queens of Faerie total up to something greater...there is every chance that Mother Summer's use of "our" included ALL Queens of Faerie. The Name of such a being might well be Fate, Gaia, God or something else that Jim has dug up/created. I think this is why Harry is partly wrong/stupid because he only see's the Mother's linked, not all the Queens adding up to something greater than the some of their parts.

Their are many, many versions of the Triumverate in many religions and mythologies. Triple Goddess of Wicca, Brahmic Trinity, Devi Trinity, Catholic Trinity, Greek Fates, Norse Norns, Egyptian Ra and many others. I have long wondered if sum of the Queens represents all of that.

There are many links the the Arthurian myths in the Dresden Files, and not merely the traditional myths but the many retellings and adaptations.  I am just throwing thoughts out of my head to work them out here - and will clean this up soon.

There are several archetypes/roles in the Arthurian Legend:

The Rightful King - Arthur. In Dresdenverse, this would be a likely someone like Michael, though Arthur is probably more fallible. Interestingly, as the story became more Christianized the idea that Arthur became "Rightful" rather like God/Jesus being the true King. This is important. Marcone is also a candidate - though that would be quite dark.
The Wizard/Druid - Merlin. Clearly this is Harry, he is not meant to rule but to be a part of events. Now obviously there is/was an "original" Merlin who began the White Council and changed the world, and excluding Time Travel and working with the fact that he is dead, Harry Dresden is clearly being lined up for this role.
The Enemy - Morgan(a) Le Fay. Again, clearly already exists/ed in DV but assuming she is dead the current candidates are not so easy. A few candidates stand out: Elaine (assuming she is evil), Kemmler (bear with me - the evil Wizard behind everything), an unknown threat.
The Weapon - Mordred. His whole purpose is to be the weapon that kills the rightful king. Nothing like the power of patricide. Harry could fit this role, as he has often been described as a weapon and used as such. Also possibly Marcone, though he feels a bit old for the role.  However, more likely this will be something out of left field - maybe like a future apprentice of Harry's/child (for a guy who doesn't get much, he sure seems to keep having kids!)
The Knights of the Round Table - Clearly the Knights of the Cross fulfill this role.

Nimue, the Lady of the Lake is a central and important figure. She is Lancelot's fairy godmother. She is notable for giving Arthur Excalibur and giving Lancelot the Holy Grail. She refused to give Merlin all her love until he taught her all his secrets, and then she locked him away (originally either beneath a stone or in a hawthorn tree - pay attention, in DV Dresden gets stung with a hawthorn dart during Cold Days and there are several significant stones (Stone Table, Stone Statues etc). In other versions it is an invisible tower or a cave (Demonreach - and yes I know Jim says it isn't Merlin in the crystal, doesn't mean he isn't down in there). Here is where it get interesting! The goddess Diana (Artemis) is Nimue (also known as Vivenne)'s godmother and Nimue's father is...the god Dionysus (Bacchus)! Interestingly, the Lake she is associated with is sometimes considered the Lake of Diana in Sicily - where Queen Diana (who was worshiped as a goddess) was murdered. This is where Lancelot du Lac (of the Lake) was raised. In some versions - Morgan Le Fay is Nimue too residing in a town named Ninniane (one of the names of the Lady of the Lake). In the Hellboy comics, Nimue was locked away and arises to supplant Hecate as Queen of the Witches. She is the Queen of Blood and takes up the mantle of the Morrigan and leads an army of legendary and folkloric beings. In the 80s novel "The Mists of Avalon" the Lady of the Lake and Merlin are offices in the pagan heirachy, Merlin is a young druid and Lady of the Lake is the ruling priestess of Avalon. Multiple characters hold the mantle of Lady of the Lake including Morgan Le Fay, Vivienne, Niniane and Nimue.

In Dresdenverse who is the Lady of the Lake? - Leanansidhe seems a bit on the nose, so it leaves a few options to who the original was. Mab (when she was Lady) is possible, she would have been quite young as that would have predated Hasting by several hundred years. It is possible that Morgan Le Fay literally held the Mantle of the Lady of the Lake (whatever that mantle actually is) and either gave it up or died - and so have several other beings. Perhaps the mantle is one of the six queens, perhaps something else. Perhaps Nemesis the Greek Goddess is "Nemesis" and Hecate is the six Queens of Faerie and everything is just them having a shit fight...Nemesis is "Outsider Nemesis" is Nimue, uniting the formor and intends to supplant Hecate, who are the Queens of Faerie.

Other interesting connections

Elaine Mallory - Interestingly close to the Summer Court, shares a name with Thomas Malory (who wrote Le Morte d'Arthur - which the myth of King Arthur is based), candidate for being Kumori. Could she be the Morgan Le Fay archetype? Interestingly, as she was Arthur's half sister and also the mother of his bastard son and killer Mordred, considering my theory that Harry and Elaine are half sisters her candidacy gets stronger. Also is the name of the DAUGHTER of the Fisher King. The WOUNDED KING'S name is Pellehan (named Pellam of Listeneise) in Malory's Arthur, the Fisher King is Pelles. Pelles tricks Lancelot into sleeping with his daughter Elaine, in order to sire Galahad (the perfect Knight). WTF!!

John Marcone - Not much known, pretty powerful and successful person - made more headway in someways than Harry ever has (all the more significant because he is vanilla). Could have been an excellent Monarch in ages past.

Ramirez - Feels like a Gawain (always a brotherly role with Arthur)
Butters - Probably Sir Gareth the Lovely Hands - knight of the kitchen.
Thomas - Lancelot. Hands down. Definitely mister steal your girl.

Who is the Fisher King - the heart of Western Civilisation? This is so significant I am not sure what even to say...In some versions this King lives in a castle with his son (but they are both the Fisher King - very Father and the Son) relying on the Grail for sustenance. He bleeds from a wound in his thigh (this is very Jesus). In some versions, the wound was caused by the Spear of Longinus. In others, the Spear is used by Galahad to heal him. In Joseph of Arimathea (the man who caught the blood in the Cup making it the Holy Grail) the "Rich Fisher" is called Bron (Bran is sometimes an original spelling). Bran the Blessed in Celtic Mythology has a cauldron that can resurrect the dead. Very interesting considering the Saviour returns to life. King Arthur actually retrieves that Cauldron in one story.

Also what is the weird connections between Christianity, Greek Mythology, Irish Mythology and Arthurian legend? Strongly exists in the real world, and in DV seems even more connected. Obviously all part of Western Culture the past few millennia but still. Greek Gods connected to fae, connected to Wizards and Druids, connected the Grails and Christ, connected to Tuatha de Danaan. It just goes round like a pretzel!

Wow this really got away from me. I am gonna tidy this up.