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Messages - potestas

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121
DFRPG / Re: Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« on: August 15, 2014, 10:55:09 PM »
I've actually been toying with the idea of using aspects in D&D.

Most modifiers give a +2/-2. 

Myself and other people who've DM'd have used various Role playing points/Luck Points etc.. to let players save up to buy extra feats or buy skill points.

I think adding the aspect system would enrich the game.

I think of myself as a number-cruncher.  But at certain points in a game you think, "this is taking forever" or "it might be more interesting if..."  If the table is in then why not.

You used my example from the other thread out of context.  I gave you 2 (extreme)ways of using sponsored debt and you used the 'hand-wavey' one as your example in this thread.

And I take exception to this because it's not what I was saying.  All I'm saying is in a given situation it might not matter.  So why bother rolling?  Instead of taking stress, take debt.  It'll be more interesting later.

It's up to the group to decide.  Judging how any given aspect is going to affect a combat or scene is left completely to the creativity of players/gm.

Is that "slippery with oil" going to add a +2 tag or is it going to end up with the whole building on fire?

Are you going to put the aspect "on fire" on a scene or are you going to have everyone resist environmental damage every turn.  Usually that's up to the vision of the GM and how he wants to run the challenge.

If the GM thinks the Ward isn't going to do the trick, then maybe he runs it as another type of conflict.  "you have 3 rounds before they break through.  You have to get 10 zones away in order to escape"  that set up a new conflict and sets up tension.

Or you could run it round-by-round, having them hammering away at the ward, calculating how much damage they take and do to the ward while the PC's try to escape.

That's what I like about FATE.  So many ways to do the same thing.  You can make it as free-form or as crunchy as you like.

i am sorry if you thought it was out of context, but its what made it all click for me, which is what lead to the question. It was a giant ah moment so i wanted to run with it but not in context of the other post sorry for the offense but it did enlighten me a bit. From my perspective it was an awsome revelation

122
DFRPG / Do you like or dislike the fate system and why?
« on: August 15, 2014, 09:54:03 PM »
I am begining to think that the game is well liked by those that prefer an open ended affair. Where the GM will say if you spend a fate point the ward will hold and you guys can escape. How strong the ward is or how many shifts you need is pointless since its going to hold, and nothing the enemy or you can do to bring it down because its part of the story. Those who prefere to know how and why something works and how to get around it via rules or power probably do not like the rules, well thats my guess. So whats your opinion. I am not saying its good or bad I am just trying to understand if I've grasped why Fate system is popular here.

123
DFRPG / Re: HOW DOES EVOTHAUM WORK
« on: August 15, 2014, 09:46:16 PM »
What do you mean if your GM doesn't care?

Let's say I did a 14 shift ward and only wanted to take 4 mental stress and no back-lash and no mental consequences.

Assuming an average discipline roll of 6 (let's say discipline 5 +1 foci)

That's 6 points of sponsored debt.  For 1 spell.

That's not nothing. That's a hell of a lot of compels.  Eventually, the character won't have FP's to pay them off.  Remember that you don't earn a FP for accepting compels based on debt.  But you still have to spend a FP to pay them off...and that FP spent doesn't pay off the debt - the debt still stands.

I'm not sure I'd do a ward that way, though.  What's the story?

If it's to hold off some baddies while you escape, I'd just say "sure, you put up a ward.  DOn't worry about the strength, they won't get through until you get away.  It costs  you 1 point of sponsored debt."

ah i see

124
DFRPG / Re: HOW DOES EVOTHAUM WORK
« on: August 15, 2014, 09:19:14 PM »
thats why i dont like self sponsored magic, you can get a lot of shifts for nothing if your GM doesnt care

125
DFRPG / Re: HOW DOES EVOTHAUM WORK
« on: August 15, 2014, 08:56:10 PM »
so if i wanted to make a ward  i would use my conviction and whatever other bonus i had and from that roll i woul determine its strength and length of time it lasted. what if i wanted one greater then my conviction say twice it could i do it and have my sponser absorb the back lash

126
DFRPG / HOW DOES EVOTHAUM WORK
« on: August 13, 2014, 12:31:02 AM »
what do you use to work the spell?

127
DFRPG / Re: Speedster?
« on: August 11, 2014, 01:02:23 PM »
everyone worries about the laws of magic. That only applies to members of the white council or those humans with abilites that warrent inclusion in that body. If you where not a member or a member of another group you could do whatever you wanted at least in regards to the laws of magic. They only apply to humans who are or could be members. In game terms if you broke the laws you would be a monster. But if you had super speed and because time moved more slowly around you I don't see how you would be in violation of any law. If you had ties to the fey or another power there isn't anything the white council could do you wouldn't fall under their political umbrella.

128
DFRPG / Re: what can you do with earth magic
« on: August 07, 2014, 11:57:24 PM »
Between gravitational and magnetic force, you can do a lot with projectiles.  It's not quite as flexible as pure force effects, but it's close.
what makes it better is how it can bypass immunities. Magic immune no problem  40 foot hole from no where . Need some iron to take down tiny no problem every nail in the are pulled from area and hurled into his large ass I thinkni like it best

129
Though at some point, it helps to raise power as well, since you can increase the power without risk. I feel that having power trail 2 shifts behind control is a good bet, because the chance for fallout/backlash is minimal, while the spell will still be pretty powerful.
It's all fun and games, until you remember you look ridiculous without eyebrows. :P
also blocks and effects are determined by power so you still need power close just in you want to create aspecs for tagging

130
DFRPG / Re: what can you do with earth magic
« on: August 05, 2014, 04:22:30 PM »
i was thinking holding people in the air, kind of makes super strnegth worthless, summoning hunks of iron from the earth and into things that dont like iron. Inside i suppose you could cause chuncks of metal(nails beams ) so suddenly lash out and into said creatures that dont like Iron. Mostly i was thinking earth magic would be the one thing that could pretty much get things that are immune to lots of stuff. A giant hole is still a hole and you could be stuck a while even if you dont need to breath.

131
DFRPG / what can you do with earth magic
« on: August 05, 2014, 11:51:57 AM »
conjure metal, create gravity wells. Any ideas

132
True, but keep in mind that you can get mighty powerful really quickly. A superb starting wizard can take 2 refresh worth of refinement and start out with 8 control 8 power easily. That would mean he can throw around 8 shift attacks with a weapon:4 for free, which is magnitudes greater than any mortal will be able to do. One of those can easily be enough to take out an opponent. Make it a zone weapon:2 attack, it's still free, and you can blast up a whole group of enemies. Sure, that's cool, and I'll happily have you do it, but just like Harry tires when he does something like it, so should the player. Linking it to the mental stress track accomplishes that.

Not to mention that you can easily have enchanted items with additional spells, which you can narrate as casting a low powered spell with a focus item, instead of tapping into a stored spell. Yes, the mechanics handles it like that, but it doesn't have to be on the narrative side. I think the disconnect between those two levels is the core of this whole thread.
But this is Harry Dresden, not Potter. Though Fate would do a fine job with that as well, I've seen some great adaptations. The thing is, it's not D&D either, and playing Fate like D&D is going to leave you disliking Fate, I can absolutely understand that.

You don't really need 4 refresh to pull this off. 5 shift ritual to take yourself out, bam, you're a cat. Granted, you don't benefit from all that much from your catness, but that's where temporary powers come in. Skin a cat and use the free tag on the "skin of a cat" aspect to grant you "diminutive size" or "beast change: cat" for a scene. Or eat a cats eyes and use the tag to grant you "supernatural senses: nightvision". Or if you are short on aspects to create, spend a Fate point to achieve the same.

We don't really see any wizard, except LtW, shift into anything. Sure, there are novels and games where this happens, but it's not the Dresden Files. And even then, if you want to accomplish this, give your wizard "modular abilities", one set for the wizard, the other for an animal form, and you have your shapeshifting wizard. There's a lot of ways to accomplish what you want in this game, and yes, it's not as clear cut as some other games, but to me, that's a good thing, as it lets me do things the way I like them to be. House rules are part of the design philosophy of Fate. Make things work for you the way you like them. I was a bit perplexed by this in the beginning as well, but once I dug in, I really liked it.

i also think some of my problem with the game is my lack of understanding of the rules.

133
thats pretty much how i solved it, I just wish I had the dresden world already mapped out for me (using d20 rules)  as I dont have the time I use to create the whole world or mod it in any meaningful way.

134
You know, potestas, you could solve most of your problems just by playing in a 20-Refresh game and disallowing non-Wizard PCs.

Really?

Which movies/books/games do you watch/read/play? In my experience wizardly shapeshifting is actually pretty rare.

Hah! Go play Scion some time.

Believe me, it gets worse than this. Much much worse.

Invoke an Aspect. Invocations can do anything that seems reasonable.

Fate actually involves less outside-the-rules stuff than most other games, largely because Aspects are so flexible.

I am not going to argue.(well not really)
 I know you love the game you have done some wonderful things to make the game better. You have, with some of the other people who frequent this board, have taken a piss poor rule set and made it into something so much better. Its too bad you didn't write the rules and create the game  I am pretty sure you would have done better. I have seen your website. You guys are why i keep trying to like the game. But it is not a good rule set for Dresden magic.

I think D&D magic using spell points would actual do a better job representing what Dresden can do. Not the memorizing part but more like rote spell part. Once he learns a spell he ca n cast it at anytime if he has enough spell points. Its pretty much what he does in the books anyway. I think coupling the spell casting to the stress track is the mistake. Perhaps an ingame rule that brings in spell points based on convicition and refinement or somthing like that. With each level of spell costing a spell point. Example average strength spell ocsts 1 point fair cost 2 that sort of thing. I'd have to think about it more.

Harry Potter, 4th level D&D spell polymorph other/self I mean really a wizard should be able to shift his form into a cat at least or a bird :) but that would take about 4 refresh to pull off. Thats why its important to actually have spells in the game and not just descriptions of what can be a spell.

Like  I said I am not going to argue with you Sanctaphrax, i know you love the game and the books and you probably know more about the rules then most people on the forum,(including me) but when it comes to the magic aspect of the fate rules the rules need a lot of help. help you guys have provided with a crap load of in house rules and ideas Which as i have mentioned before is proof of the weakness of the rules at least as they apply to dresden style wizards from the book.

135
Slightly off topic, I was curious just how "Harry the PC" pulled that off. Did he let Lara place a maneuver on him with her powers and tag it, did she hit him with a consequence that he tagged himself? I could also see him placing a Lore Maneuver on himself with his exposition about emotions and magic. Oh well. Back to our regularly scheduled program.

thats the thing, tthere is nothing in the rules that would ever allow that or could. if you tap an outside force its good for maybe 2 shifts of power not near enugh to pull off what he pulled off on his last legs. remember Lara was running on empty too. Now if the GM and players want to invent outcomes then you really dont need rules, jus tsit down with a couple of beers and talk. But that isnt fun cause in the end just doesnt work.there is no limit to what you can invent.  Fate is too much 4 drunk guys making up a story and not enough guide lines that allow the fun to happen the way you imagine it should. I want to know how I can pull it off within the rules.

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