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Messages - cold_breaker

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121
DFRPG / Re: Confused About Concessions
« on: April 16, 2013, 04:04:16 PM »
I would suggest that Severe and Extreme consequences be reserved for those with a significant personal stake in the conflict, or for those who have been brainwashed/etc. to believe that they do. (and, obviously, Extreme consequences should typically be reserved for those with an extreme personal stake in the conflict)

The inititiation of a Concession is unilateral.
The nature of that Concession is negotiated.
Any 'take' deviating from this is a substantial houserule affecting the very foundations of the collective naration system.

Sorry, maybe my wording makes it sound like I'm saying something I'm not.

I've always made it a point that ultimately, GM has Veto rights - not something I want to use, but some times you need to. I wont get into the intricacies of GM fiat since it's such a sticky subject, but suffice it to say that yes, it is a negotiation. I will allow concessions based on certain guidelines though, e.g.

1) The concession fits - people who take minor consequences before conceding will probably get an easy concession, like running away safely. Bigger consequences taken -> harsher concession -> Conceder gets less say. Aspects on the scene could also theoretically affect this as well.
2) The concession benefits the conceder -> Which means essentially you can't have a concession be that the NPC dies any ways if they don't want to die. If conceding is just as bad as not conceding, you wouldn't concede, now would you?

EDIT: oh, to get back to my original thought: the point isn't that there isn't a negotiation per say, but for minor concessions they should be as quick as the GM saying "OK, the NPC takes a hit and runs off. Next?" - This isn't non-negotiable, but it doesn't make sense to have 20 minutes of diliberation every time you punch someone in the face. Go with what makes sense as a default, and let the players argue if they want something different to happen.

122
DFRPG / Re: Confused About Concessions
« on: April 16, 2013, 02:07:10 PM »
Yeah, I was a bit fuzzy on this but that's my take on it as well: any time before the dice are rolled.

I've been trying to figure out how to do this for NPCs, since NPCs by default will never fight to the death (except under extreme circumstances) which is why they tend to be squishier. For combat circumstances I take it as thus:

A non-trained npc will concede after a minor
A combat hardened unit (a soldier, guard or brawler) will typically concede after a moderate
Dumb combat hardened unit (like an attack dog, or fae creature) might take a major
Only extreme cases will take extreme or above.

My take on it is GM still gets final say in NPC concessions - not that I wouldn't listen to player arguments if they don't like the concession. Generally, I consider running away to be fair concessions for most situations though, depending on the level of consequences.

123
DFRPG / Re: Custom Power for Wereform Komodo Dragon
« on: April 15, 2013, 07:09:24 PM »
Gotta agree. I'd say any time someone takes a consequence from you're attack, ALSO add a sticky aspect - septic wound. This sticky aspect persists until X roll at a +4 can be completed, prevents the consequence it's tied to from healing until it's removed (possibly multiple), and provides a +1 bonus to tracking the creature by scent.

The meneauver wording comes off a bit weak to me, since you can do that without a power. This way, it has the restriction of having to inflict an actual consequence, but once it's applied it keeps the wound from healing and provides a tracking bonus. I left it at a +1 because it seems a little too powerful for a +1 power after that. As it is, it might be worth making it a +2 power.

124
DFRPG / Re: GM resources?
« on: April 08, 2013, 03:12:01 PM »
Oh and about Player Maps.
If you ask someone to draw a school room, and the throw in a weapons locker and a nuclear reactor, thats where you as the GM step in and go "come on". But a school room is a school room, a banks a bank. If you have something really awesome, draw a map of that, but I think it helps players invest in the game. Also if they have a hang out like a bar or something, let them draw that, put scene aspects ect because it cuts down on the "burn it down' factor. Hey OTHER PC dont burn down the bar we spent 45 minutes on!

My suggestion, next game, do it the way I said, then the next game do it the way you are saying, compare/contrast. Whats the worst that can happen?

My way
Zero prep before game time
Show up for the game, maybe ask the players some questions about their childhood, background, inter party relationships, how they feel about events going on in game "how does you character react to McCoy stealing the Mantle of Power from the Jade Court?" and just roll with it.

This is how I see it.
When I was a kid my friend and me played Duke Nukem 3d alllll the time, I loved that game, it was 3d, it was cursing, it was amazing.
So when he got this "Duke Nukem 3d level editor" book from Half Price books, my mind was blown.
Sadly, It was like finding out Santa wasn't real. Why? Because I realized stuff like enemys were spawned when you enter certain rooms, it didn't matter where you hit them, just as long as you hit them ect.
So when I hear people talking about drawing up maps of the dungeon/school/whatever they are going to fight in, I just think of Duke Nukem, and how it didn't matter if I snuck into that room/or how monsters were going to Spawn into it, regardless.
With a video game, no matter how good, only so many things can happen, in an RPG ANYTHING can happen. I just see planning like this as limiting your ability to do anything.

Well, that much is just style preferences I think. Everyone enjoys a different aspect of gaming a little more than the rest, whether that aspect is the storytelling, the strategy, playing a niche role, or simply smashing things. I prefer the storytelling, so for enjoyment purposes coming up with the scene is an investment for me, even if it might be more work. Basicly, I'm a writer at heart and while I like having players who have free will, I also like controlling the story and watching players have 'ah ha!' moments.

125
DFRPG / Re: Magic Map (my players keep out...)
« on: April 08, 2013, 02:40:42 PM »
I was thinking that the map will direct the group to things it wants them to take on, but within reason. It won't ask them to go to Alaska if they're in Florida. The zoom feature might be based on the group's actual location.

Could also be a way of manipulating the group as well. It zooms out and shows them the road when it wants them to travel. You could have a plot point at some point about how it directed them to go to some place, then as soon as the group gets there it's trying to get them to leave... perhaps to go to some new place, or simply the objective here is already lost.

126
DFRPG / Re: Question about Luck Magic
« on: April 08, 2013, 02:26:19 PM »
Another way to look at this is to look at the background. There are different flavours of luck - astrology? Something with a more Irish bent perhaps? Chaos theory? Probability?

I have a player who's using luck magic that he doesn't really understand, so I basically get a free call on where it comes from and such. It's kinda cool because he's tied the source into one of the main threats of the game, and then the group has given me artistic licence on what the threat is (mostly), so his magic will actually give me an opportunity to gradually provide hints until I'm ready for the big reveal. At the same time, DF has set rules of how it works mechanically, so he can't be screwed over mechanically by my artistic license. Win/win in my mind.

Anyways, the point is, this "luck magic" has to have a source (or charactor aspect) - work from that!

127
DFRPG / Re: GM resources?
« on: April 05, 2013, 04:35:42 PM »
I find that I improvise better when I have something planned. Even if my plan gets completely derailed, the time spent thinking about it helps me respond to what my players do.

This is what I'm trying to get at.

Plus, if you flesh out the plans for stuff you don't expect to happen, like the details of X NPC that technically exists but isn't involved with the story, you have more to work with when they're surprisingly pulled into the story.

128
DFRPG / Re: Can the Fae Queens kill?
« on: April 05, 2013, 04:33:18 PM »
Also note: This isn't an actual inability. It's an agreement the queens made. Like any agreement a fae makes though, they have to keep to it strictly. It becomes part of their nature.

As a second note: this is why the mantle of knight was created: it's their one loophole, since they technically only have limited control over the mortals who bear the mantles. But yes, they can kill the knights, since they're being a mortal is a grey area thanks to the power of the mantle.

129
DFRPG / Re: GM resources?
« on: April 04, 2013, 08:44:05 PM »
I don't think we're disagreeing on this, although perhaps you're worried about my proposed method. But let me answer point by point:

Quote
What does a classroom look like? Like a classroom? Is their a fire extinguisher in there? Roll me notice or give me a fate point

I don't like the idea of giving too much control of the scene to the players. After all, what's the fun in running the game if you can't describe the scenery? Giving players a declaration for something that'd have a good chance of being there is one thing, but letting them describe what the room looks like is another. Also, it leads to some metagaming abuses as well - the GM didn't describe anything, so there's obviously nothing important here. There are more extreme abuses that could be pulled off, but I'm not particularly worried about that.

Or Fists, or Weapons, Or whatever makes sense

Agreed. Even so, I should have expected/planned my NPCs method of attack better. I think this was just inexperience either way though.

Whatever you want them to do. Or if the players can convince them to help.

It'd have been nice if I had actually written up some default NPC stats is what I was getting at, and having them on hand at a moments notice.

I print out a list of my players Aspects so I can look at them

Every game I've played, I've had a list handy. However, to a newb GM, it'd be better to spend a little time brainstorming some compels to use as part of your story. It makes it easier to predict the characters actions and plan around how the players might actually react. For instance, in the going off the rails example you gave, your GM could have used the loose cannon aspect of your charactor and compelled you to do exactly what you did, and then planned out a result.

You couldn't have thought of all that before hand, and if you TRY to think of everything you tend to get tunnel vision on what you "expect" to happen *Quick story at the end*

I'm not trying to think of everything. I am trying to provide myself with a guideline of the minimum amount of preperation for each scene. I can't predict how players will overcome a challange, but I can brainstorm up what tools they have available to them, as well as what those challenging them have as tools as well.

It's a skill, you have to realize you are playing the game they are playing, and then playing another game above the one they are playing.

Yup. And to play both games, a little organization will go a long way. ;p

I get what you're trying to say, but I think you're being a little over zelous assuming that planning = overplanning. I think it's more an exercise of what you plan vs. How much you plan. What I mean is if you plan out what a place will look like and some default clues, you're fine. It only becomes an issue when you're planning how the players will find those clues and what they have to do with them that it becomes an issue. It a thin line to walk... with is why I'm coming up with guidelines to help walk it :p

Again though, I think we're on the same page, you're just misinterpreting my intentions. I'm basicly just trying to set up guidelines to do exactly what you suggest - have default stats I can fall back on, sometimes to improvise, sometimes because I was hoping the story would turn out this way. I'm just saying I want to do it on a story by story basis, but otherwise I'm planning exactly what you're saying.

This'll be soo much easier once I've completed my first story with the group and can describe the plot - how much I've planned out and how I deal with curveballs my players throw. lol

130
DFRPG / Re: Magic Map (my players keep out...)
« on: April 04, 2013, 04:39:58 PM »
I'd personally say the zoom has something to do with folding it: You can unfold it to look at the whole thing, or fold it down to show a particular place of interest, which makes that place appear an ideal size, even though it's not that size when folded.

The other thing I'd say is avoid letting your players use google Maps for this. Say the map is detailed differently then a traditional road map and you can have it only show the details you find relevent. After all, the inteligence from the map would likely navigate the world differently 200+ years ago: new roads have been paved, new landmarks, etc. This gives you oppertunities to add challenges that wouldn't be there otherwise.

E.g. "We're supposed to turn left at the 50' rock!" - "Wait, what? There's no rocks here!"

131
DFRPG / Re: Magic Map (my players keep out...)
« on: April 04, 2013, 03:01:21 PM »
Holy crap. I love it. lol.

The other cool consideration is that as the map gets more powerful, avoiding the wardens gets easier, and so the focus of the campaign shifts slowly from just avoiding the Wardens to actually fighting back and proving their innocence.

Prop wise, I'm actually kinda curious to see if you couldn't have something custom made out of light brown leather and print an old worldy version of America on it, and have symbols reform on it as the map (and the soul bound to it) is slowly restored through adventures.

EDIT: You've inspired me to try and come up with some props for my game. Gotta think now! lol

132
DFRPG / Re: GM resources?
« on: April 04, 2013, 02:44:37 PM »
We do. I'm not going to post it all (it's a lot to type up) but the gist of it is that the area we picked (southern Ontario) is on a system of lay lines that are "Fractured" by the influence of the great lakes, resulting in the 'fractured cities' - essentially this spiderweb of small lay lines that are actually counter-productive to magic in the traditional sense. This leads to major effects on several groups: Mortal practitioners who are not acclimitized to the effect find themself seriously handicapped, but the locals have learned to deal (kinda like people in mountinous areas acclimitize themselves to thinner climates) - the effects of the fairy courts are diluted, so many wild fae choose to live here, resulting in a large population of fairy scions and some changelings (I've decided that the fracture also tends to make scions more likely then normal.) Finally, there's a large population of Were's (werewolves, wererabits, werecayotes, and anything else that  exists here geographically)

Conversely, we also have a threat of old vs. new. The basic idea of this is that we have a major tech center here along with multiple universities creating a new generation of highly technical, intelligent and informed kids that are butting heads with the extremely powerful, secretive and influential Mennonite population. Basically, the Mennonites have secretly been controlling politics in the region since it has settled and their particular brand of influence is the reason we've never had a problem with major crime... and thanks to the new generation, for better or for worse this status quo is in jeopardy. Although the mennonites are pure mortal, they have a paramilitary wing - the Jagers. They're the theoretically defunct german hunting groups that are secretly still going strong: hunting paranormal threats that get out of hand, mostly the local Were's that get out of hand...

Theme: Breeding ground for mediocrity
Threat: The Fracture
Threat: Old school vs. New school

I'll leave it at that. We do of course have Faces defined for each of these groups, although only a high aspect for each is defined at the moment, as well as basic locations. I'm also summarizing quite a bit: there's a lot of political intricacies that my players will discover over time: some of which will be freely given, others will be shown during adventure gradually.

That said, it's not the setting itself I have issues with. It's more being able to generate the adventure. I already have ideas and places to start as you can hopefully tell, it's filling in the details these forms will help with. For example, playing my first scene in our first adventure, I intended to do an intro to combat that involved my players hanging out at the local Universities when they're ambushed by a group of local Jagers trying to catch a girl who has come to them for help. I quickly learned to improvise quite a bit to get through this scene in ways I do not like (layout of the classroom for instance? Athletics rolls by the mooks to break through the windows? What the innocent bystanders do/are capable of doing to help? Possible suggestions for compels I could use if I'm out of ideas during play?) All of these things seem like things I could have better thought up before play. As well, I found myself feeling extremely disorganized - which notepad did I write out stats for Mook B on again? Where did I write out my players aspects so I can think up compels? Crap.

That said, I have a basic first draft of these PDFs set up. I'm going to crean it up a bit and post my first version here for people to look over, and possibly for other new GMs to try. I will hopefully have something to show after this weekend.

133
DFRPG / Re: Magic Map (my players keep out...)
« on: April 03, 2013, 02:56:00 PM »
Might want to add mechanics to keep your players from messing with it. Give it a massive power level perhaps?

I wouldn't map out gateways to the nevernever, it wouldn't make sense. You can make a portal anywhere. I'd stick more to safe houses and shortcuts - places where a path to get from one place to the next starts, or else avoid the fuzz for a little bit of time. Theoretically, you could have it mark out interesting spots (McGuffins) as you go, but I could see a lot of stories coming up with this sort of tool without it mapping out anything too crazy - Other supernatural drifters trying to steal it, races to the next port of safe harbour, etc.

Interesting idea though, I really like it!

134
DFRPG / Re: GM resources?
« on: April 03, 2013, 01:52:39 PM »
Have you done city building with your group?  If you did this, many of your NPC's and Locations would be done, at least as an outline.

Not sure if you're referring to me, but yep as well. This little project of mine is to help expand on that, and transition from the city creation to the story creation. I'm doing this because I feel what I have so far isn't quite robust enough to feel real - The laws of reality are in place, but the details are still a little too flexible yet to feel like an actual game. Instead it feels like I'm making up a story as I go along, and while my players might not notice, it bothers me and takes away from my fun.

At the same time, I don't want to go too far and put the whole game on rails either, which is a real concern for me as well. So, I'm trying to come up with a way to better define the players in my story - a system where I can firmly say 'this is what I'm in control of and this is what I'm not'. The point is to create a challenge for not only my players (which I could do just by improvising) but for myself.

Sounds like I'm inventing a ruleset to make story creation a minigame for myself I guess. Not sure if I've worded this quite right, but hopefully other GMs get what I'm saying. lol

135
DFRPG / Re: GM resources?
« on: April 02, 2013, 08:53:03 PM »
Hehe, slightly derailed, but I like the line of thought.

My hope (I'm a newb at DMing) is that by making these forms, I can make a very unconstrained story, free of railroading. When I have tried to write them before, I end up righting paragraphs of what's happening and end up with all sorts of preconceived ideas of how it'll all play out. Instead, I'm hoping it'll be something like this:

I have X number of NPCs mapped out - Some are people who's plans are integral to the story, some are just mildly statted out mooks that I can throw at the party for fights, and the rest are talking heads - NPCs who provide clues, red hairings or simply depth to a scene. I can't control my players actions, but I can control everyone else. The bad guy has an agenda and a plan: it's his job to figure out how best to keep it on track, and my job to figure out how he'll do so.

Next up is the locations: these are essentially there to provide a setting for your plot. My hope is that by having a form, it'll force me to consider some best practices to provide locations that are a little more fleshed out and feel like the world is a little more real. This might provide clues as well (such as a crime scene) but even if it's mr. and mrs. Mook's house, I'd still like there to be something to describe, both from a descriptive perspective and from a tactical one (like a chandelier, or a secret passage, or even a steep hill that could provide a barrier in a chase scene)

Finally, the event form. This will be for major plotline events that I expect to occur - my reasoning for these is generally that although it's possible for the PCs to unravel them, they probably wont due to either having no idea that they're going to happen, or that one or more of the NPCs is actively working to make this event happen. These will likely be things like 'the kidnapping of important NPC A' or 'the sudden but inevitable reveal of the traitor' or even events the PCs have told you they're actively working towards - like 'standoff with X big baddy.' These forms are meant to help flesh out the actual story, but are meant to be flexible - suggesting possible locations to occur and alternate ways they might unfold.

My hope is that I can translate all the important plot points into these three forms: in this way I get away from describing how the players get from points A to point B and be ready to improvise that part, while still having a fleshed out world to do so in (as opposed to locations that get a brief description and are never taken into consideration again, or NPCs who'se personalities change more and more as they get less important.

I imagine using these by printing them out and sorting them into 2 binders - one for long term use (like NPCs and locations created in setting creation, or else added after the fact because of events) and one for the immediate story. Each will sort by type, with all the npcs lumped together, then locations and events at the back.

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