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Messages - Yuillegan

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1156
DF Spoilers / Re: He Who Walks Before
« on: September 23, 2019, 04:19:56 AM »
True Bob has been wrong before - so I agree he might not be 100% right about conjunctions. And yeah my take is because they are Beyond, they don't have the same rules apply. Which makes the banefire make more sense (it couldn't kill any outsiders that may have been below Demonreach, but it could keep them down a while).

I think Mortal wounds are what they appear to be generally in the series - but it isn't gospel.

1157
DF Spoilers / Re: Baba Yaga and Baba Vasilisa
« on: September 23, 2019, 04:16:43 AM »
SK - Yes it is from the Paranet Papers. This was my conclusion too. A gap in Simon's knowledge.

Also interesting that Vadderung made his entire office unsuitable to the Fae...


1158
DF Spoilers / The Queen of Air and Darkness
« on: September 23, 2019, 04:15:04 AM »
Morgawse, Morgause...whatever you like. She is referred to by this name in the poem of the same name by A.E. Housman. She is the Witch-Queen of Orkeney who in is the daughter of Gorlois and Igraine (King Arthur's mother), Uther Pendragon takes Igraine as his wife making her Arthur's half sister. In some versions she is also Morgana Le Fey's sister too. And she is mother to Gawain, Agravaine, Garheris, Gareth and Mordred (who slays Arthur, and is his son...)

Highly convenient name considering Merlin's involvement in the Dresden Files.

So is Mab then Margause? A witch in a line of witches descended from Medea and Hecate? How do both Athame's fit in?

Mab did say she was once mortal...

1159
DF Spoilers / Baba Yaga and Baba Vasilisa
« on: September 23, 2019, 12:45:16 AM »
Are Mother Winter and Mother Summer, respectively.

Except Simon met with Baba Yaga several times, and she offered him power and knowledge and he refused, and did not choose to be her servitor. He also was certain she was NOT fae. We have a WOJ saying that Mother Winter is, for all intents and purposes, Baba Yaga. So we have a contradiction.

My belief is that Baba Yaga and Mother Winter, and Baba Vasilisa and Mother Summer, are mantles. What is underneath and wearing them is harder to say.

1160
DF Spoilers / He Who Walks Before
« on: September 22, 2019, 11:18:22 PM »
Why isn't he dead?

If everything that stands upon the Earth on Halloween is mortal, from the Ladies to the Archangels, why isn't he dead? Harry blew his head off! Yet the dark cloud rushing away yowling implies that he survived?

So are Outsiders more than immortal? Was Bob wrong about conjunctions and Halloween? Are there exceptions?

1161
DF Spoilers / Re: Mab's Limits
« on: September 21, 2019, 01:20:22 PM »
Avernite - I think you are essentially correct. I believe a coalition of gods from many pantheons got together and used the Stone Table to transfer a LOT of power into the Sidhe. But not so sure it was murder, rather I think it was sacrifice. I think it was done not to detriment the gods, but to help them. WOJ is that the Sidhe were given power by agents who thought their influence in the mortal world was waning.

Bad Alias - I think the Gaia theory is more likely here. I think that because of all the different gods and goddesses pouring in their power, that is how they became what they are. But I think they were always important in the various pantheons (Moirae in Greek, Norns in Norse, Devi/Kali/Parvati etc) and then gained additional significance and power.


1162
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Kemmler start the Black Council?
« on: September 21, 2019, 01:11:12 PM »
I spent some time looking for it - I believe it is this
Quote
And the vampire's crumpet. Luscious little thing arn't you? And so close to Lady Raith. You and I are going to have a long talk after this, darling. I just know you're going to start seeing things my way
Cold Days, Ch 51, p445

Too Deep - Thank you!! Someone gets it. Rashid, who is almost certainly NOT nfected, also confirmed that Harry's first few cases were all linked to the adversary directly. Lily wasn't wrong. People can be nfected.


1163
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Kemmler start the Black Council?
« on: September 20, 2019, 11:35:12 AM »
Strengths
*  Fairly low powered god.  The combination of Lady, Queen and Mother is collectively equal to a strong god like Hades in power.  The Mother has the lion's share of that power, so Mab by herself has to be fairly weak in the god power scale.  I would argue that the very weakness of her god power is a strength as she suffers much less restrictions on the use of her power as compared to the more powerful gods.  The universe as described clearly has rules that severely limit the more powerful beings.  The Mother must be far more constrained than the Queen and the Lady should be less constrained than the Queen. 
She can hear things spoken at night, especially if her name is spoken.  Great source of intelligence
*  She commands the winter fey.  Mother may be stronger, but the queen rules day to day operations

Weaknesses
*  Mab cannot harm a mortal directly, but must wait for them to make themselves vulnerable (via a deal) or use the Winter Knight. 
*   There are MANY other powers comparable to Mab out there in the universe.   Her attention must be split to counter many of them and/or make sure their agenda does not hurt Mab's agenda.  For example, the entity behind the "worshipers" in the molly short story has nothing to do with the Outsiders, but was still a threat to Winter's interests.   Even though the Outsiders are clearly making a move, Mab cannot afford to ignore the other threats just in case they are acting while Mab is distracted. 


Lots of theories in there - I am curious about where you get your ideas from though. So let's unpack.

Mab is a low powered god - where do you have reference to this? She is clearly stronger than retired gods like Odin and the Lords of the Outer Night. In terms of your scale and the god you have compared her to (Hades), are you saying he is as strong as the Mothers (and by extension, an Archangel)? Because I have yet to hear of any evidence to support that. Archangels, and beings of their level (the Mothers, the Walkers etc) are beyond mere gods like Hades. But I am open to a discussion of an alternate point of view.

I don't believe that her power works like Anduriel's, in that she can hear all things of the night. Her title as Queen of Air and Darkness, is more to do with the human elements (reason and savagery) than the physical phenomena. Which isn't to say she has no influence (she rescued Harry from the cold dark waters of Lake Michigan) but I think this ability has never even been hinted at in the series. Her ability to hear her name is more to do with being supernatural, even Toot-toot has that.

Mother Winter serves more like the Chair of the Board, the ultimate ruler. She doesn't do day-to-day operations as she has duties and concerns that are much higher and more complex. She is more akin to a force of nature, than merely a steward of a role. As Jim says, you just obey gravity - duh.

Mab may not directly be able to harm a mortal - but she doesn't need to. She has all those other Winter Fae for that. Plus a Knight.

And the worshippers were worshipping a "sleeper" something that the Outsiders wanted released...

SK - We don't know that humans CANNOT be infected either. We only know of a few infected being anyway.

forumghost - I thought similarly for a while, that Maggie is behind a lot of this and was on the original team of rulebreakers. But. I also wondered if she merely, in her activism, came across more extreme types.

1164
DF Spoilers / Re: Did Kemmler start the Black Council?
« on: September 19, 2019, 11:02:05 AM »
You know, I found that story quite illuminating. Lots of clues.

I suspect you are right, or at least, he is responsible for what led to the creation of the Black Court. I still think he is probably active and behind everything, but that is a quite crazy WAG with very little evidence :D

I don't think the Circle has only thirteen members, because in White Night I believe Vitto wished to be elevated to the Circle. I think it more like a magic cult myself.

Well, I think it relates because Cowl is a Heir of Kemmler, likes Corpsetaker. Beyond that connection, not so sure. As for the Fomor, I simply think they are another hungry Power that has been biding its time that has been energised by the real players. The ones stiring everything up. The Circle.

That's my take anyway.

Also - there is a clear link between the Denarians and the Thule Society. In Small Favor, the Denarians use a ritual to contain the Archive (Harry speculates that it was powered by Lucifer himself...). The symbol on each axis point of the five pointed star, is an bastardised symbol of magic like Harry's pentagram with the exception that the points of the star are NOT contained with in the circle. Harry compares it to the Anarchist symbol. He muses that it means Power without Limit or Restraint. Interestingly Thorned Namshiel, Tessa and the Red Horned demoness (I forget her name) are the sorcerers, and the ones Harry suspect of being involved with the Black Council (as opposed to Nicodemus).

In A Fistful of Warlocks the same symbol appears on the top of the building Kemmler is in. Food for thought.

1165
DF Spoilers / Re: Name someone you want to appear in Peace Talks
« on: September 19, 2019, 07:10:56 AM »
I think there is an old WOJ about the Jade Court very actively not being involved, and might only appear in the BAT. But who knows, Jim does change things up.

But yeah, definitely the Senior Council and most of the White Council. The Fomor, the Fae, the White Court, Marcone are all pretty much guaranteed. Possibly Mavra and whatever remains of the Black Court. I highly, highly doubt the Denarians considering the last book. And they tend mostly to show up every 5 books so probably not until the very last Case File. Ferrovax is a distinct possibility, considering his presence at Bianca's ascension. Incredibly powerful being shows up at some schmuck Vampire thing? Probably doesn't bode well - and is highly significant. Maybe the other dragon perhaps? I also hope Drakul finally makes his big entrance, but we'll see. I suspect some Monoc Securities presence, plus svartalves etc. Would be fantastic to see any other interesting signatories, such as the semi-divine immortal shapeshifting guru from the Ukraine.

And of course, even if they are not announced as being there - the Black Council/the Circle. They will definitely have a presence there. And will stir things right up. I wonder if we might even see Cowl and Kumori - we are actually due to see them. Whether they will attend the actual talks openly is another matter.

1166
DF Spoilers / Re: DragonCon
« on: September 19, 2019, 07:00:59 AM »
Don't misunderstand me, I thoroughly enjoyed that panel - being an aspiring writer myself. Personally, whilst I understand the arguments by those who take issue with the title of said panel, I am not particularly bothered by it. But that's just me. I think we all need to not sweat the small stuff as much, myself.

But it wasn't a dig at you in particular magnuskn - I more meant for everyone just to move on. This isn't the right area for such a discussion as there are other areas of the boards for this - and it is just good form to stick to the main discussion in the thread, in general. Which is not me trying to silence good debate either. Just there is a place for it and it isn't here. That's all I will say on the matter. But let's not get this locked.

1167
DF Spoilers / Re: Mab's Limits
« on: September 19, 2019, 06:55:43 AM »
The whole Faerie Queens = Hecate thing is just a theory. An interesting one, but by no means the only one. And it has never been confirmed.

What everyone always seems to forget is the sheer Power of things like Uriel. He is so strong he doesn't do contested violence, he has terminated galaxies and even whole universes (WOJ). Mother Summer and Winter are at the same level, and so apparently are the Walkers (HWWBh and HWWBf). But they are all limited because of their extreme might, and so can only use that incredible power in very specific ways at very specific times. This is all WOJ. And lastly, Uriel is considered a Senior Vice President of Creation. Assuming TWG is the President and Chairmen, I really highly doubt Hades and Hecate are at the same level. There are SO MANY gods. Thousands, possibly more depending on the limits Jim has set. There are only two Mothers, three Walkers and five Archangels. That tells you something right there.

And one more thing, there is a WOJ about how the Fae are agents of those whose influence was waning in the world, and so poured a whole lot of power into them in order to maintain that influence by proxy. This hints pretty strongly that many of the old gods put their power into the Fae in order to make them much more than what they were. This goes a long way to explaining their many links to the various religions and mythologies. There was a very interesting WAG that it was Hecate who all the power was poured into, but she was split in two (Summer and Winter) and the Queens are just different aspects of the original being, and the main bit that is left is Mother Winter (on account of the fact she has never changed). But that too is just a theory.

What is clear enough, is that Hades is not at the same level as the Mothers, and therefore cannot be as great in power as all SIX Queens combined. That would be insane. He would then be stronger than two Archangels combined plus extra. It isn't impossible I suppose, but considering everything we know about Power in the series and the various beings, it just doesn't add up.

Also Hades hasn't faded, he isn't like Vadderung. He simply is less involved - by Choice partially but also because of the balance of powers. See the WOJ about sleeping deities.

Morriswalters - Mab, and I suspect many other beings have some form of Farsight or Scrying etc. This is not the same thing as being able to hear and observe every thing that happens in the dark. Not in the same way Anduriel can. Don't you think that would have been revealed by now? No. It is more likely that when she chooses, she can try and observe various events as they happen (and perhaps see into the past and various possible futures, to some degree). Vadderung, Leah, Uriel and others have all shown the ability too, and I suspect they are far from the only ones. Hell, even Harry can view events happening from beyond himself either by scrying (using Little Chicago) or even through premonition.

1168
DF Spoilers / Re: Mab's Limits
« on: September 18, 2019, 11:39:46 AM »
Strengths
*  Fairly low powered god.  The combination of Lady, Queen and Mother is collectively equal to a strong god like Hades in power.  The Mother has the lion's share of that power, so Mab by herself has to be fairly weak in the god power scale.  I would argue that the very weakness of her god power is a strength as she suffers much less restrictions on the use of her power as compared to the more powerful gods.  The universe as described clearly has rules that severely limit the more powerful beings.  The Mother must be far more constrained than the Queen and the Lady should be less constrained than the Queen. 
She can hear things spoken at night, especially if her name is spoken.  Great source of intelligence
*  She commands the winter fey.  Mother may be stronger, but the queen rules day to day operations

Weaknesses
*  Mab cannot harm a mortal directly, but must wait for them to make themselves vulnerable (via a deal) or use the Winter Knight. 
*   There are MANY other powers comparable to Mab out there in the universe.   Her attention must be split to counter many of them and/or make sure their agenda does not hurt Mab's agenda.  For example, the entity behind the "worshipers" in the molly short story has nothing to do with the Outsiders, but was still a threat to Winter's interests.   Even though the Outsiders are clearly making a move, Mab cannot afford to ignore the other threats just in case they are acting while Mab is distracted. 


Lots of theories in there - I am curious about where you get your ideas from though. So let's unpack.

Mab is a low powered god - where do you have reference to this? She is clearly stronger than retired gods like Odin and the Lords of the Outer Night. In terms of your scale and the god you have compared her to (Hades), are you saying he is as strong as the Mothers (and by extension, an Archangel)? Because I have yet to hear of any evidence to support that. Archangels, and beings of their level (the Mothers, the Walkers etc) are beyond mere gods like Hades. But I am open to a discussion of an alternate point of view.

I don't believe that her power works like Anduriel's, in that she can hear all things of the night. Her title as Queen of Air and Darkness, is more to do with the human elements (reason and savagery) than the physical phenomena. Which isn't to say she has no influence (she rescued Harry from the cold dark waters of Lake Michigan) but I think this ability has never even been hinted at in the series. Her ability to hear her name is more to do with being supernatural, even Toot-toot has that.

Mother Winter serves more like the Chair of the Board, the ultimate ruler. She doesn't do day-to-day operations as she has duties and concerns that are much higher and more complex. She is more akin to a force of nature, than merely a steward of a role. As Jim says, you just obey gravity - duh.

Mab may not directly be able to harm a mortal - but she doesn't need to. She has all those other Winter Fae for that. Plus a Knight.

And the worshippers were worshipping a "sleeper" something that the Outsiders wanted released...

1169
DF Spoilers / Re: DragonCon
« on: September 18, 2019, 10:48:56 AM »
This, while somewhat relevant to the topic, feels like a diversion from the OP. And while I am sure it is important as a discussion, let's stay on topic if we can. This is starting to feel like it might approach an issue, which does no one any good.

1170
DF Spoilers / Re: What questions should Harry be asking?
« on: September 15, 2019, 03:53:38 AM »
APG absolutely agree, even if you assume that Harry is pretty busy and obstinate - a detective would surely notice that his mother is quite involved in a lot of things that affect him still...could you find that WOJ?

Kurtin - I agree. Surely there is some lore, or an expert who could help him work out Winter Law. Or Summer Law. Or both.

But really what I think Harry should ask:

1) What is a starborn? He knows he is one and has done zero research on it. Mab, Leah, any faerie, Vadderung, probably the White Council should be able to help put this puzzle together.

2) What is the purpose of the Warden and the history of the role? Whilst off screen, Harry has figured some of it out, we haven't had any exposition on this. And the way Ebenezar talks about it still makes me think there is still more to be revealed.

3). What is beyond the Outer Gates? Who previously defended them? maybe a big no-no for the White Council, but Harry is barely White Council any more. He is involved in bigger issues, as a tool of greater powers. He needs to start talking to Angels, Fae, anyone to get some more information on the Outsiders. Or hell, even summon one.

4) What is the link between the Redeemer and the Outsiders? Skin Game provides a big connection between Christ, the Fae, The Greco-Roman pantheon and the Outsiders. Harry needs to find the point of connection.

5) What is going on with the inbetween with Captain Murphy etc. and who are the bad guys? Carmichael only partially agreed with Harry's statement of Fallen, even though he led him to that answer by pointing out the angel guard. I would be trying to talk to them via ectomancy.

6) What are the origins of the Vamps? Why are they so different yet considered similar? Why are they working together and yet against each other? What is the Outsider connection?

Of course, this will all get answered as it becomes necessary to the plot. So we will have to wait. But if I were Harry, I would slow down on the cases and get to the big questions as a priority. But I am not Harry, and Jim needs to sell books, so wait and see I guess.

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