I was under the impression that those are not Fomor, they are just goons modified by the Fomor. More like Renfields than anything else. Keeping the true villains off-screen can amp up the paranoia pretty effectively.

I think your right. Then i wonder what they are. What about the lords are they modified humans too, have we not seen the real deal yet

That the fomor suck as bad guys. I mean how sexy are people with gills and turtle necks. I mean they're just really kind of meh

But that's all your own conjecture and assumptions, as you've said yourself. Most of the killing done with magic is done by non-humans, done using non-mortal magic, done to non-mortals, or it's stressed that killing with magic goes against the laws of nature and inherently changes someone.

As for Harry's enemies and bad people using magic in bad ways... Has it occurred to you that the misuse of magic could have contributed to these enemies being such horrible people?

Quite late in the series Harry and Luccio even have a pretty heavy conversation about why the Wardens police the misuse of magic - it allows them to prevent wizards becoming a threat to the world in ways mundane mortals can't handle, without getting stuck in mortal politics.

Like it or not, the Word of Jim is that breaking the Laws of Magic has an inherent corrupting effect on a person. It doesn't take away your free will or make you any less responsible for your actions, but it does change you as a person, and make you more prone to doing so again.

yes but my theory actually takes into account all we have learned over the last few books. Killing people over and over with a rock would change you. Become easier with time as you perfected your technique and got better at not caring. Evil acts change people whether its magic or a rock. That is my point, magic alone doesent change you, you willing to do an evil act is what changes you. WOJ aside he probably said that prior to what he has written recently and if you recall he said himself that he isnt to be trusted as he tells lies for a living(something to that effect in one of his interviews) .

WOP is killing with magic for a the right reason doesn't do a thing to you. no taint and certainly no power up. Do it for the wrong reasons and your power up wont be enough to help you against the still living morgan and his earth crunching spells of stomp you into the ground.

When is using magic to kill mortals (in self-defense) okay and goes unpunished in the later books?  And your games aren't the books, so they aren't exactly a canon source.  Also keep in mind that the game only goes up to Small Favor. 

There are two parts of the Laws.  The first part is the White Council's written law, allegedly scribed by the original Merlin.  The second part is the metaphysical effect of breaking the Laws, the part that makes you a crazy monster, which happens regardless of the White Council's knowledge of you or vice-versa.  Your... Idea, I suppose, that Harry just blames his anger issues on killing someone is also completely untrue.  Harry Dresden has the First Lawbreaker power.  It's in the rules, and we know how and why he did it. 

Harry broke the First Law by killing Justin, and had to deal with the taint of black magic (and still has to, decades after he committed the act, in fact).  And keep in mind, his reasons to kill Justin?  Justin had the love of his life as a hostage, and was sending demons after Harry to hunt him down.  He acted to save himself and Elaine.  He was still a Lawbreaker, still tainted. 

While yes, Harry can be an unreliable narrator, I honestly doubt the entire White Council is wrong on the Laws they've been enforcing for centuries. 

And it's been explained how the Wardens take out warlocks.  They shoot, behead, bludgeon, or otherwise kill them with weapons, not magic. They do use magic to defend themselves, weaken the enemy, and if possible hold them down to make the rest of the job easier.   

You're also completely incorrect, Kemmler was not killed with magic.  He was killed with a variety of weapons, including a flamethrower. 

Finally, yes, mortal law is mutable.  The Laws are more than that.

I dont recall anywhere where it was said he was killed with what you just mentioned. He was taken out by wizards i assume magic. He had a horde of things serving him so i assume they brought all their resources to bear, but to make sure he was dead and stayed that way..a spell would be my guess.

many people have argued the laws are more then mortal. I just don't see any real evidence that they are. Harry thinks they are;  his enemies don't. Sometimes mortals are monsters too and they deserve the same treatment any monster gets.

I think Harry had problems before he killed Justin, I don't think it was the fact that he killed Justin. Harry is probably unstable from his upbrining and from what Justin did to him. Not the magic but the base betrayal it represented. Harry has never been in a good place. Fortunatly hes a good person. Its like Urial told him its his choice. he can choose to be a monster servant to mab or a human servant to mab. Humans are allowed almost universally the right of self defense in all ethical systems, it is considered moral to do so. Why would the laws of magic(if they are the wizards version of an ethical code) not be the same as all the other ethical systems out there. Essentillly you have a right to self defense unless your a wizard then you have to fight the mortals on their own ground with their best weapons. I dont think so. Buttttttt.

The real reason(my conjecture here) the laws are the way they are is when you violate them you strengthen the outsiders. That is reason enough to not violate the laws of magic and it is different from the "given" reason for violating the rules of magic. Somewhere along the way Merlin wrote the laws down because it was he who figured out what happened when you do. I bet prior to Merlin writing down the laws and enforcing them( and he could because his power was or is equal to that of one of the queens)(wiki) i bet people broke them whenever it suited them and it didnt do anything to them, except break down the walls between reality.Most wizards don't even know about the war with the outsiders. Wizards are human they get choice and free agency and that includes choice to use good things for bad. Execpt when wizards do it there are bigger consequences. I bet if enough wizards misuse magic things just slip in, no one notices it. Even the wizard who kills in self defense weakens the barrior. His individual act, one that he may only have had to do once in his entire life (not all live dresdens life) but its  chink. Nothing happens to the wizard he was a good person doing a good act, but using the only tool he really has in a manner that does harm to boundries. He doesnt know it he will probably never know it.

 I think merlin figured this out. I think its one of the reasons he built the prison wrote the laws, formed the council, its all a part of the war against the outsiders. And if he had to lie to make people follow it so what. The stakes are to high, at least he thought so.

You may say this is a quibble but its not, the given reason for breaking the laws of magic is it changes you into a monster more likely to get worse with each infraction. In story we have no real evidence of this. What we see is bad people using magic i n a way bad people would use it or any tool. In a self centered way theat benefits them.

I believe the main reason the laws taint you is because you're using your magic to take free will away from a mortal. Now two things could have happened when they killed a renfield. They knew that they were basically alive zombies, because there's no harm in killing a reanimated person, and knew they werent people anymore, or option two; If they thought the renfields were still people, the very belief they were killing a mortal would be enough to taint them. I forget where exactly I read that, but it makes sense.

this is why there really isnt a debate as to the OP question. The renfields just dont count as human. The real debate is about if any killing of humans can be allowed.

Incorrect.  Killing a mortal with magic, regardless of the reason, still breaks the First Law (note, I didn't say murder, I said kill).  If the situation warrants it, you can get a stay of execution/probation sentence under the Doom of Damocles (which requires a patron) for self-defense and the like, but you still broke the Law, and bear the taint.  The question here would be whether or not Renfields are mortal anymore; the OP stated his table's decision already, so it's a moot point. 

Think of it like this; Harry Dresden killed a man with magic in self-defense at the age of 16.  At the age of 25, he's still got a Warden on his ass trying to find an excuse to kill him, the murderous urges brought upon by his previous killing, is under the Doom of Damocles, etc.  Said Warden continues to harass and suspect him for over a decade, while his reputation with the White Council still has him painted as a potential warlock (which is exacerbated by his continued skirting of the Laws).  He also continues to struggle with darker urges, on top of the temptations that tend to roll his way. 

Yes, the Laws are harsh, and the White Council is quite unforgiving if they catch you.  It's a major part of the setting, at least from the perspective of a person who had previously broken a Law and has seen the process, as well having joined the organization that enforces it (although not working on that aspect of the job).

thats one interpretation. And may have been how JB wanted it when he started writing, but 15 books later and I think the interpretation has changed. Self defense seems ok in the later half of the series. And is fine in my games.

Because when every player character plays a Wizard, long-term games get boring. Because if Wizards are so awesome, you will always have people arguing over who gets to be 'the group Wizard' (and this does happen). Most of the other templates tend to balance out when we play, but I've found that as soon as you give a character either Evocation, Thaumaturgy, or both, they tend to really bulldoze through things compared to the other players, and that tends to disgruntle the people left in their dust.

A good way to balance magic would be to make it cost more than it does right now, honestly. Because as expensive as it is Refresh-wise, it's still incredibly powerful. That would leave magic just as powerful, but would make it appropriately expensive for that power. Another way to tone it down would be to remove the free specializations and focus item slots that come with those abilities and make people pay for them separately.

Then you wouldn't be playing dresden files, you would be playing something else. Magic is that powerful, as JB describes it " as the fundamental forces of creation". I've always thought that the game severly understates the power of a wizard in the dresden files. If you uread the majority of my posts I whine about this constantly.  When I picked up my copy of dresden it was to play a wizard like dresden, not his brother the vampire or a plain jane mortal like murphy. Plenty of games out there that already "balance" magic against other things, i've never been one to think that magic should ever be balanced otherwise its not magic its something else.

You could have your players play sorcerers or some one trick pony like Bender. Make sure your games stay at the low end. But expect them to get trounced should they go up against a white council wizard or "gasp" a warden. In the magical community and beyond the WC is supposed to be that bad ass. You really aren't meant to be able to fight against a preped wizard and that prep incudes the use of magic items; that is part and parcel of the wizard template. Magic items are what allow the wizard to be ready for anything, they allow him to focus on offense and leave the defence to a sheild ring or a coat with defensive ruins.

another thing you might do is have the wizard research new spells instead of make them up on the fly. I think this better reflects what Dresden wizards do anyway. Dresden only seems to know a few spells and he consistantly mentions not knowing how something is done but if he spends the time working on it he could do it. Rote spells is where id start each wizard can start with a defined spell per point in lore, but to learn a new spell tie it to a story or a exp cost say 2-3 points of refresh per spell.The power of the spell will always be tied to conviction and bonuses but at least he cant create the well of death with any element until he figures out how to do it first with each element. And you havent really done anything to the dresden motif, in the dresden world the older wizards have all the power and it explains why they spend most of their time researching and not doing what dresden does. You could do a lot with this storywise and control the power of you wizards. Instead of always increasing refinement to make stronger and stronger wizards they could increase their versitility with new spells. Dresden packs a mean punch but basically its a force missle a fire missile or now an ice missle. If you go through the books he really doesn't do a lot of different things just a few that hit really hard. I really don't think hes a very good wizard.

 None of what i think matters its your game, but it is the Dresden universe and if i play in it I expect to be that badass out the box. It is a game about wizards and magic so magic and wizards are going to be front and center. Hope the idea helps