SK - Her shutting down Aurora's plans doesn't actually go against the grain exactly. Kumori and Cowl were clearly not of one mind, she even uses her necromancy to "save" a life. One wonders how a fine thrall would behave. They couldn't be too tightly controlled as they wouldn't be useful, but it would have to be enough that they were not as independent as a mere servant...because that leaves the possibility too open of flat out betrayal. Perhaps Elaine hepling Harry against Aurora was her own small act of rebellion, within her limits.

Or perhaps Elaine isn't enthralled but just has a different set of principles, despite being on Cowl's team. Maybe she even doesn't agree with a lot of his ideas, but agrees with enough of them to work with him sometimes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she was allied with him because she knows about the greater threat coming, that Harry is clearly ignorant of, and has had to ally with dark and dangerous people in order to save people. Much like Harry. From the outside, Harry would look quite dark side if we only saw flashes of his life. Especially recently.

I don't know about the suppressed personality thing but who knows.

Also, I agree with your assessment of Lara and have revised my take. Although I think she could still end up playing for that team, she could well be recruited. They already have tried to recruit Dresden several times, perhaps they will keep trying or perhaps not. In any case I think there are a lot of disenfranchised people who see the White Council for what it is.

BA - Michael betraying Harry is almost the least likely thing that could happen. Maybe THE least likely. I kept being unable to find more unlikely prospects! So yeah, Nicodemus being redeemed (especially if its "he was good all along") is almost completely ridiculous.

True, those Grey Council guys are traitors, but we have been led to believe they are noble. Interesting point, why hasn't Harry questioned why Eb hasn't gone full warlock yet? If he is doing all that black magic, he should inevitably go warlock (at least from Harry's limited perspective). But also  after Harry learns about Eb being his grandfather, he asks Eb whether all the secrets are out on the table between them and Eb says "No". He is definitely trying to set Harry up to expect further bombshells.

Yeah, I think you're right about Rashid. Not Black Council or whatever, but quite probably will betray the White Council in order to make it what it "should" be. And maybe betray Harry too...although I have no idea how.

Don't know that we have zero evidence for Elaine being Kumori, more that it is circumstantial. Nothing concrete at any rate, I will concede. More like I think when Harry does found out all her bad past/being a bad guy - I think the reasons won't be easy to argue with and THAT will shock Harry. Hell, he might even end up joining her!

Great descriptions of both the Merlin and Vadderung in my opinion, by the way.

In Turn Coat, Murphy says to Dresden that one of the reasons treachery is so reviled is that it often comes from someone you never would suspect.

Jim recently has also said that there are some characters who appear to be good and are not necessarily, and some who appear to be bad who are not necessarily.

With that in mind lets examine a few.


1. Listens-to-Wind.
Because he seems to be a good guy, he makes a perfect candidate for a twist. He also happens to have fought an almost pure evil being in the presence of Harry. Makes his motives seem ultimately good. And he is a good friend of Ebenezar, who is a long-time Dresden ally.

But let us look a little deeper. In Turn Coat he says to Harry in Edinburgh:

“Once, I watched the tribe I was expected to guide and protect be destroyed, Harry Dresden. I did so because my principles held that it was wrong for the Council or its members to involve itself in manipulating the politics of mortals. I watched and restrained myself, until it was too late for me to make a difference. When I did that, I chose who would live and who would die. My people died for my principles.” He shook his head. “I will not make that mistake again.”

He is overtly saying that he won't allow his principles (that an innocent man shouldn't be hung out to dry) to potentially cause the end of the White Council. However he could also be saying that he believes, (interestingly like Simon Pietrovich did/does) that the White Council SHOULD be involved in mortal politics and direct the course of history.

Eb also goes on to say how he has had to deal with terrible anger against the invading British pre-Americans and the massacre of his people. However, what if Eb is wrong? What if Listens-to-Wind is actually still very deeply angry over it? He and Eb also have an interesting argument on Demonreach:

Listen-to-Wind’s voice became hard and rough, holding a deep and burning anger that I had never heard from the old man before. “There is the world that should be,” he growled, “and the world that is. We live in one.”
“And must create the other,” Ebenezar retorted, “if it is ever to be.”
Listens-to-Wind looked down and shook his head. He looked very old and very tired. “There are no good paths to choose, old friend,” he said quietly. “All we can do is choose if many die, or a few.”

That to me speaks of someone who might just be a bit more cynical than Eb (which is saying a lot) and might not be so at ease with the way things are, or the way they are going.

I am not saying necessarily that he has betrayed the Council at this point (although...Naagloshii first shows up here, and despite their differences in cultures, what if the fight between them wasn't as real as Harry assumes it was?) But he might end up betraying it. If he was offered a better Council, a better world he just might take it. And it would make for a real blow to Eb.

2. Rashid - the Gatekeeper
Rashid makes a compelling candidate because he also appears to be on Harry's side, although up until the end of this book more than a little suspicious of him. He also seems rather central to the fight against the Outsiders...and so if he betrays everyone that would be pretty bad. He does seem to believe that not only will Harry challenge the White Council, but that he actually SHOULD challenge them and win. That is very New World Order type thinking, whatever his reasons. He would make for a challenging foe as he his magic is strange and unusual, and he has incredible foreknowledge. Even the Merlin respects him, more than perhaps any of the other wizards. He also is quite possibly the oldest wizard, maybe the oldest human alive (although we must acknowledge that at the very least time-shift shenanigans have probably aided that, perhaps even outright Time Travel). Who knows he may have even crossed into other Universes. In any case, he might not be the good guy we are led to believe.

3. Ebenezar
This is the hard one, and in my opinion would hurt the most. He has the license to break the Laws and is THE combat wizard. He also is a top-level good guy, so it would be a real sucker punch. Worst of all, he is Harry's mentor and grandfather. I cannot imagine a more painful betrayal, except maybe Harry's own parents. BUT. He also created the Gray Council...to hunt himself then. Why fill it with top-tier warriors? And why would he fight at Chichen Itza? Even to save his own life, it wouldn't be enough. And he is strongly allied with Vadderung, and I don't see him pulling the wool over his eye. Still though, it would suck. And he almost certainly was being recruited to this new force/Circle/Black Council by Margaret LaFey...maybe he did actually join.

4. Elaine Mallory
Almost certainly some sort of villain, but maybe not in the new force. We expect a betrayal, but it what form who knows. My money is still on her being Kumori, but even if she isn't she might still be in the Circle/new force. She also has betrayed Harry twice, and Dresden has a habit of falling for the same trick (especially when it comes to women, even more so when they are women he has/had feelings for). My money is she is a finely controlled thrall and when things really start getting revealed we will see who she is and what she has been up to. And we know Harry will hate it.

5. Leansidhe
This is tricky, because it depends how you see her. She was certainly more of an antagonist in the early series than now. She quite likely knows what Maggie was up to, and may well have been involved. However she does seem to protect Harry, and most of her interests seem to be self-motivated more than simply bringing down the house. But she does seem very weirdly connected to a lot of the bad guys, and one wonders just how much she is keeping from Harry.

6. Lara Raith
Not a good guy. But also a sometimes ally. Definitely looking out for number one, she will do whatever it takes to remain powerful and survive the coming disasters (including killing busybody wizards with attitude problems). Don't think she is on the Circle, but might end up there. However she definitely has been fighting against them at a few points, so maybe not. She is a growing threat that probably will be much more of a worry if left alone...yet like Mab might be a necessary evil. But wouldn't surprise me to see her betray Harry and the White Council for more power. She goes on a very interesting speech in Turn Coat:

Contrary to your own perceptions, the world is a great deal larger than the White Council of Wizardry. You aren’t a vital body in today’s world. You’re a sad little collection of self-deluded has-beens whose self-righteous prattle has always taken second place to its hypocritical practice.”
...
“You think you can simply walk into my home and issue commands and threats as it pleases you? The world is changing, Wardens. The Council isn’t changing with it. It’s only a matter of time before it collapses under its own obsolescent weight. This kind of high-handed arrogance will only-

Curiously, Cowl said much the same about the Council during Dead Beat. He believed the Council hadn't adapted to the times and would soon collapse. I don't believe she was merely referring to the speed of mortal invention increasing, she was referring to the changing of the supernatural world.

7. Margaret LaFey
Almost certainly did some stuff Harry will find repellent, and allied with people he would find awful. I mean, she had a child with Lord Raith...that's pretty bad right there. Probably gave Harry a really traumatic legacy that is the main reason his life has been so hard and horrible. This one is inevitable, but what she did and why are mysteries.

Honorable Mentions - Kincaid and Marcone
Both of these dangerous pragmatists clearly have mysterious pasts and secrets, and are not enemies of Dresden mostly but not quite allies in the truest sense. They mostly work for themselves, and almost all of what they do seems to tie into looking out for number one. I think Kincaids origins and past will shock and disturb Harry, as will Marcone's. And I think a show down between Harry and Marcone seems inevitable, but I am not so certain Harry will win.

Characters who are have been suspected of treachery and probably are not traitors:

The Merlin - Arthur Langtry
An antagonist in the series, but probably not Black Council. He already leads one Council, he doesn't need another. He also is mostly responsible for establishing the current balance of power in the supernatural world. He doesn't want to threaten the status quo. A dick he may be, but he isn't a black-hearted monster almost certainly. And too obvious if he did betray Harry, no real emotional pay off. Listens-to-Wind believes that if he falls, so does the White Council. Which almost certainly is foreshadowing.

Molly
Already had her darkside moment, she is Winter Lady now. Unless she gets nemfected, probably not.

Ancient Mai
Like the Merlin, too obvious. Mostly she seems harsh, rigid and cold. She is 400 and has probably seen enough bad times to warrant harsh measures in good times.

Anyone else you guys can think of?

Well I am only going off the five that Jim gives us. If there were more I think he would have mentioned it.

Michael might be the chief now, but originally Lucifer was the highest of all. Assuming we are going with traditional dogma here. So Lucifer is more likely Spirit from that angle... although Spirit might not necessarily be the strongest element in a direct sense.

Also we know Lucifer likes to use Hellfire as we saw in SmF so another reason fire is likely... although I am sure they can use any and all elements should they choose.

The others are fair enough but just as likely as mine.

Gabriel as Earth is fascinating, great find!

Main takeaways:

1. Donald Morgan and Maggie Le Fay knew each other - and had an association strong enough that Morgan would protect Harry.

2. Morgan was actually protecting and testing Harry for most of his life! Margaret made him promise, which means towards the end, whatever their previous relationship he trusted her enough to make that promise. And all his bullying of Harry was to ensure he wasn't the monster that clearly some thought he had the potential to be. More on that below.

3. Malcolm's death: this is the second or third hint that it was unnatural. My money is on DuMorne as he obviously had been building a plan for some time to get his enforcers, and I am sure he would have been well prepared to kill Malcolm to get Harry. And it wouldn't surprise me if he used mundane methods like Ricin poisoning in order to simulate natural causes. Although the possibility remains he did it with magic and covered it up...I can't remember where but I am reasonably certain Justin was an able mind-mage.

Also - the fact that Harry disappeared from everyone whilst under DuMorne is further evidence of a conspiracy. Magically, physically and bureaucratically covered up is just too clean, and I am sure Justin had help. Perhaps from Peabody, perhaps also from others (both in the Council and otherwise).

4. Morgan thought DuMorne was a bastard. Probably for what he did to Harry, but perhaps in the same vein as Cristos. They would have been colleagues as Wardens so one imagines DuMorne was pretty nasty, if Morgan (who could be quite the bastard also) thought he was. That says something right there.

5. I will break down this sentence as there is a bit to unpack.

From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.

Morgan knows about Nemesis. This isn't totally surprising as he was a top-level warden, and with power comes knowledge and Morgan was pretty powerful.

He doesn't actually theorize Harry to be infected - I suspect he wouldn't have even gone to him if he did, which says something else to me.

I think he IS implying Justin was infected. That would make sense with why Justin became what he was - however it is just a theory. Justin could ALSO have been merely working for some other Nemesis-infected person.

The "we". He almost is certainly NOT referring to the White Council as a whole, and probably not even the Wardens. My guess is that he is referring to a certain group within the White Council, somewhat like the Grey Council, but perhaps a taskforce led by or commissioned by the Senior Council (likely the Merlin but quite possibly the Gatekeeper). I am sure Anastasia was part of this group too. Think secret police.

5. Confirmation of the fact Justin might not be dead - Morgan suspects that it could have been simulated. Now we know Harry believes he murdered Justin, but if it was a ruse, he might have been fooled and perhaps even agents on the Council might have helped cover it up.

6. Morgan seems equally disturbed by the fact Harry might have killed Justin outright at sixteen - probably because as I have speculated before, Justin was no slouch. If Harry beat him then Harry might just as easily be the monster they suspect. Think monster in the sense of Bonnie, a being "born of the spirit of a fallen freaking angel and the mind of one of the most potent wizards on the White Council. She's going to born with knowledge, and with power, and be absolutely innocent of what to do with them. a lot of people would call that monstrous" - Skin Game, ch23, p170. Harry might have freakish, monstrous power potential. Curiously also in that book, Grey tells Harry that he didn't choose the legacy she left him with her blood and she was a (according to Grey) a piece of work. One wonders exactly what blood magic is performed in making a starborn, and what was in her blood that made it possible. He might have been referring to simply being her child, and/or being related to Eb as well but I think it is more to do with the Starborn stuff.

7. Harry's potential for destruction is clear - Morgan thinks he should have been killed as the risk was too high. The fact he refers to him a Destroyer seems pretty clear, but I will get into that later.

8. Interesting that Morgan knew of the family connection between Harry, Margaret and Ebenezar. Well in the circle of confidence.

9. Morgan says he is testing him to draw out any controls that may have been emplaced. I believe he is referring to two things:  Ancient Mai's argument for not keeping Harry a wizard in Summer Knight, that the Gatekeeper explained. Ancient Mai believed that DuMorne's teachings might have shaped in ways that he can not see. I believe that was a bit of layered double-speak. They were clearly about the lessons both direct and otherwise that Harry learned from his time with Justin. But I also believe she was worried about Nemesis, either infecting or manipulating him through others. And general black magic taint - which Morgan also refers to in the same paragraph of his journal entry.

The second thing he might have been referring to is enthrallment, very fine enthrallment. I would say the fact despite everything Morgan threw at him Harry didn't turn out to be a sleeper agent is probably a good indication he isn't enthralled, however it isn't concrete. Perhaps Justin was just that good that it is buried so deep that it will only show up right at the end.

10. Morgan implies that black magic taint can be concealed.

11. Morgan, despite everything, still goes to Harry despite not knowing if Harry is a terrible monster time-bomb. Which both shows how desperate he is but also how seriously people are worried about Harry - more than a mere warlock.

12. The enemy has invaded the Senior Council by Turn Coat, according to Morgan. This is before Cristos is appointed. He could be saying that Nemesis has infected one of the Senior Council...my guess would be Mai or Merlin but anyone could be. But Morgan could also be saying that the machinations of Nemesis have managed to get between the Senior Council.

13. Quite interestingly, he talks about the web of conflicts between either the Senior Council and the Enemy, or the Senior Council itself. I think much of this will be revealed in Peace Talks.

14. I think this whole passage released before Peace Talks is to set us up for it. I think Nemesis and maybe even Harry's birthright will become more prominent in the next book.

15. Morgan had his doubts and by the end realised he was wrong about Harry. Harry might be Hellboy, but if he's on the side of the good guys I think things will work out. Seems like he is the kind of weapon that can work out really well, but also blow up in your face.

16. Is Elaine a Destroyer too? If so, the fact that she is flying under the radar is pretty worrying.

17. Pretty sure the reason Morgan was sure there was no "Black Council" is because of Nemesis. He understood that was a simplistic view of a far bigger problem. Which isn't to say the Circle isn't an organization, but they are probably more than just dark wizards with an axe to grind and probably have many other supernatural entities on their roster. And maybe they are nemfected, or just some, or maybe not. But almost certainly they are linked to the Outsiders...

18. What the hell is a Destroyer? Last we knew Harry was merely referred to as Starborn or Child born of the Stars. The only thing we knew about them is that they were born with the potential to wield great power of the Outsiders. Doesn't smack of destruction directly. But what if Harry is more than merely a potential leader of Outsiders, or gate opener etc. What if he actually can cause mass magical destruction on his own? Would be very Dresden. And could explain why so many people want him on their team, or dead.

Their entire M.O. is degrading all the status quo power nations to create a vacuum.

SK - But that doesn't answer why the need to do it slowly. Why not do it quickly and efficiently? Just because they wish to destabilize the current world order does not mean they want to do it slowly. Where is the link? If you want to create a power vacuum remove a power suddenly with no easy replacement overnight and watch the fireworks. E.g. Harry's annihilation of the Red Court and the after effects in South America.

Kindler - the minutes to midnight schedule has been hinted at a lot. I understand that the Red Court wanted more time to build there forces, but the fact remains that they needed to wipe out the White Council in order to further their grand strategy - they could have waited 100 years if they wanted to, or done it some time in the past when the Council was weaker. Why now? What happens in the next few years that meant they felt compelled to attack the White Council (even if they were being manipulated by other forces)?

Are we going to see more of Nicodemus or Mavra?
Nicodemus will show up on schedule, which you can figure out if you stop to look at things, I think. Mavra’s not done yet either, but she eventually probably will be, and I’ll leave it at that.

stilleto929: There have been 3 times that Nicodemus has told Dresden that time is running out. In Death Masks, after capturing Harry, Nicodemus says, “Your history indicates that you are too dangerous to leave alive, I’m afraid – and I am on a schedule.” Then in Small Favor, in the aquarium, Nicodemus says, “…tempus fugit. For all of us.” Then again in Small Favor, in the boat, Nicodemus says, “Dresden, I truly regret this necessity, but time is growing short. I must act…” WHY would an effectively-immortal person be so worried about time?!? The first instance can be explained by having a plane to catch, but the others seem…unusual. Is Nicodemus’s concern about time significant? I.e. showing to the reader that he believes something BIG will happen soon, and he has to be ready? Or is this just a conversational ploy to move the plot along? Would appreciate any info you could give us about this issue. Thanks in advance! – Stiletto (Celia)

Jim: The clock is ticking, and the clued people know it. /Especially/ to someone a couple of thousand years old, it really feels like we’ve already hit the two minute warning.

I think there is another one about Mab as well. Basically even though Dresden doesn't know, something long in the making is about to kick off and I think it is quite plausible that many of the supernatural powers such as the Red Court and the Denarians have ideas about what they want to do about that moment when it comes.

I agree that Ortega was scary to many supernaturals in the same way the Hellhound is or Marcone - ruthless, committed and efficient individuals who just do what needs to be done without ego. But if Ortega didn't know Raith was weakened (which I doubt he or most others did) then he surely would have been at least wary and perhaps even afraid of Raith - surely he too would have known the stories Thomas had heard. Otherwise the fear of Ortega must also come from somewhere else, either Arianna or whoever she represented.

Yes I do wonder if Maggie + Co where the founding members of the Black Council...perhaps even current leaders of it (excluding Maggie). And perhaps Lea too...although she is a wild card.

I get what you're saying about Nemesis, but I do think the connection in words is at least somewhat interesting. Hmm. Nemesis may likely be limited, but I do wonder about its origins in the game.

So yes, the Black Court in that scene where Harry takes on Mavra with Murphy and Kincaid is somewhat what I am talking about. But that is more their effect on the environment, not so much about what makes BCV stronger. There is a WOJ about how BCV level up by farming XP during wars and plagues. This seems very similar to how Denarians are stronger in dark times, even if the methods and type of strength is different.

Interesting you mention the Spanish Flu...I think there was a relatively recent WOJ answering a question about whether the Spanish Flu was either a cover story or a side-effect of the Necromancy used by Kemmler, to which he didn't exactly answer but he did think the questioner was very clever and liked them but was tight lipped about it beyond that.

I think there is some link between the Spanish Flu and Kemmler, and considering he was both involved with both the Vampires and Demons and quite possibly Fallen, I would guess the main link is between him and the Vampires myself. Whether it was intended as a power boost or was a side-effect or something else entirely (like a cover up in the history books) remains to be seen.

It's strange but I am not so sure that Hell and the Outsiders are completely at odds, they almost seem to work in different spheres. But it is more than likely some Denarians are working with Outsiders (possibly directly) and some might be aiding them indirectly.


Morris - are you saying that the series has only occurred over 12 years (in-universe) and that it won't get to 20 years by the end of the case files? You could well be correct, although you haven't factored in any Time-shift shenanigans at the very least from Mirror-Mirror I think. Still though, something quite likely will happen at the end of the case files that catapults everything into the Capstone Trilogy surely. Maybe that's when the first apocalypse happens. Jim has mentioned there will be a few at least.

Selling Starborn children? Are we sure they are so common? I think she knew how to create one, and it was her job perhaps to sire one, but she panicked at the last second for some reason. We know very little of her life, but one thing we do know is she was cunning and passionate and vengeful and planned ahead. She laid that curse on Raith as revenge, she laid that spell on Thomas and Harry just for when they met, and I don't doubt for a second that she planned very specifically that Harry would be a Starborn. Perhaps that was why Raith was so desperate to kill her. He certainly didn't use the most efficient method to murder her.

Also tip of the hat for clarifying the modern use of decimate. Seems hardly anyone uses it correctly to the point where it has come to mean something far harsher than the original word.

Yes, the Blackstaff doesn't protect Eb from his conscience. That has been explicitly stated by Jim. But in that same WOJ, he also says it DOES protect him from Black Magic corruption, which is a magical effect (think nuclear radiation). Every time you use black magic (that nebulous term), it warps and changes and transforms the caster into a monster, a warlock. However not Eb. Eb's staff protects him (although likely there is a terrible cost) from that magical effect. The effect on his conscience, that has nothing to do with magic and everything to do with vanilla mortal moral concerns, is unavoidable.

Eb might still become (or perhaps already is) a monster in the human sense, like a murderer or rapist. But not in the magical, supernatural sense like a vampire or liche or warlock.

As G33k says, those who employ the forces of magic are not like vanilla mortals and so the are affected by forces vanilla mortals have no contact with, i.e. magic. And there are special consequences for them beyond that which vanilla mortals have for morally repugnant actions.

I think it is clear that it might stain his soul, but not in the SAME way that black magic stains. Just in the normal horrible moral way the rest of us have to live with.

Kindler, great argument!

I quite like the sobering nature of Lovecraft, and would find it both amusing and interesting if Jim pulled a fast one on us and for example revealed that TWG is Azahoth or something. He almost certainly won't, but it would be quite funny.

Mostly I think beings like Azahoth are analogous to the Old Ones (dresdenverse - can we really say that if they exist outside his Creation...?) and TWG/Creator/Almighty seems above or at least more than equal to them. But it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I do find it interesting how much DnD is in there though, although almost certainly Jim has combined the Demons of the Abyss with that of the Far Realm to create the Outsiders.

To my mind, they gave us this scene (with this particular monster) for a reason. They want us to think about it. It wasn't just by accident - which says to me that this monster isn't going to be just a run of the mill, in this scene and never again type of problem. They could have given us any scene with many other types of villains. But they chose this.