Well I am only going off the five that Jim gives us. If there were more I think he would have mentioned it.

Michael might be the chief now, but originally Lucifer was the highest of all. Assuming we are going with traditional dogma here. So Lucifer is more likely Spirit from that angle... although Spirit might not necessarily be the strongest element in a direct sense.

Also we know Lucifer likes to use Hellfire as we saw in SmF so another reason fire is likely... although I am sure they can use any and all elements should they choose.

The others are fair enough but just as likely as mine.

Gabriel as Earth is fascinating, great find!

Main takeaways:

1. Donald Morgan and Maggie Le Fay knew each other - and had an association strong enough that Morgan would protect Harry.

2. Morgan was actually protecting and testing Harry for most of his life! Margaret made him promise, which means towards the end, whatever their previous relationship he trusted her enough to make that promise. And all his bullying of Harry was to ensure he wasn't the monster that clearly some thought he had the potential to be. More on that below.

3. Malcolm's death: this is the second or third hint that it was unnatural. My money is on DuMorne as he obviously had been building a plan for some time to get his enforcers, and I am sure he would have been well prepared to kill Malcolm to get Harry. And it wouldn't surprise me if he used mundane methods like Ricin poisoning in order to simulate natural causes. Although the possibility remains he did it with magic and covered it up...I can't remember where but I am reasonably certain Justin was an able mind-mage.

Also - the fact that Harry disappeared from everyone whilst under DuMorne is further evidence of a conspiracy. Magically, physically and bureaucratically covered up is just too clean, and I am sure Justin had help. Perhaps from Peabody, perhaps also from others (both in the Council and otherwise).

4. Morgan thought DuMorne was a bastard. Probably for what he did to Harry, but perhaps in the same vein as Cristos. They would have been colleagues as Wardens so one imagines DuMorne was pretty nasty, if Morgan (who could be quite the bastard also) thought he was. That says something right there.

5. I will break down this sentence as there is a bit to unpack.

From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.

Morgan knows about Nemesis. This isn't totally surprising as he was a top-level warden, and with power comes knowledge and Morgan was pretty powerful.

He doesn't actually theorize Harry to be infected - I suspect he wouldn't have even gone to him if he did, which says something else to me.

I think he IS implying Justin was infected. That would make sense with why Justin became what he was - however it is just a theory. Justin could ALSO have been merely working for some other Nemesis-infected person.

The "we". He almost is certainly NOT referring to the White Council as a whole, and probably not even the Wardens. My guess is that he is referring to a certain group within the White Council, somewhat like the Grey Council, but perhaps a taskforce led by or commissioned by the Senior Council (likely the Merlin but quite possibly the Gatekeeper). I am sure Anastasia was part of this group too. Think secret police.

5. Confirmation of the fact Justin might not be dead - Morgan suspects that it could have been simulated. Now we know Harry believes he murdered Justin, but if it was a ruse, he might have been fooled and perhaps even agents on the Council might have helped cover it up.

6. Morgan seems equally disturbed by the fact Harry might have killed Justin outright at sixteen - probably because as I have speculated before, Justin was no slouch. If Harry beat him then Harry might just as easily be the monster they suspect. Think monster in the sense of Bonnie, a being "born of the spirit of a fallen freaking angel and the mind of one of the most potent wizards on the White Council. She's going to born with knowledge, and with power, and be absolutely innocent of what to do with them. a lot of people would call that monstrous" - Skin Game, ch23, p170. Harry might have freakish, monstrous power potential. Curiously also in that book, Grey tells Harry that he didn't choose the legacy she left him with her blood and she was a (according to Grey) a piece of work. One wonders exactly what blood magic is performed in making a starborn, and what was in her blood that made it possible. He might have been referring to simply being her child, and/or being related to Eb as well but I think it is more to do with the Starborn stuff.

7. Harry's potential for destruction is clear - Morgan thinks he should have been killed as the risk was too high. The fact he refers to him a Destroyer seems pretty clear, but I will get into that later.

8. Interesting that Morgan knew of the family connection between Harry, Margaret and Ebenezar. Well in the circle of confidence.

9. Morgan says he is testing him to draw out any controls that may have been emplaced. I believe he is referring to two things:  Ancient Mai's argument for not keeping Harry a wizard in Summer Knight, that the Gatekeeper explained. Ancient Mai believed that DuMorne's teachings might have shaped in ways that he can not see. I believe that was a bit of layered double-speak. They were clearly about the lessons both direct and otherwise that Harry learned from his time with Justin. But I also believe she was worried about Nemesis, either infecting or manipulating him through others. And general black magic taint - which Morgan also refers to in the same paragraph of his journal entry.

The second thing he might have been referring to is enthrallment, very fine enthrallment. I would say the fact despite everything Morgan threw at him Harry didn't turn out to be a sleeper agent is probably a good indication he isn't enthralled, however it isn't concrete. Perhaps Justin was just that good that it is buried so deep that it will only show up right at the end.

10. Morgan implies that black magic taint can be concealed.

11. Morgan, despite everything, still goes to Harry despite not knowing if Harry is a terrible monster time-bomb. Which both shows how desperate he is but also how seriously people are worried about Harry - more than a mere warlock.

12. The enemy has invaded the Senior Council by Turn Coat, according to Morgan. This is before Cristos is appointed. He could be saying that Nemesis has infected one of the Senior Council...my guess would be Mai or Merlin but anyone could be. But Morgan could also be saying that the machinations of Nemesis have managed to get between the Senior Council.

13. Quite interestingly, he talks about the web of conflicts between either the Senior Council and the Enemy, or the Senior Council itself. I think much of this will be revealed in Peace Talks.

14. I think this whole passage released before Peace Talks is to set us up for it. I think Nemesis and maybe even Harry's birthright will become more prominent in the next book.

15. Morgan had his doubts and by the end realised he was wrong about Harry. Harry might be Hellboy, but if he's on the side of the good guys I think things will work out. Seems like he is the kind of weapon that can work out really well, but also blow up in your face.

16. Is Elaine a Destroyer too? If so, the fact that she is flying under the radar is pretty worrying.

17. Pretty sure the reason Morgan was sure there was no "Black Council" is because of Nemesis. He understood that was a simplistic view of a far bigger problem. Which isn't to say the Circle isn't an organization, but they are probably more than just dark wizards with an axe to grind and probably have many other supernatural entities on their roster. And maybe they are nemfected, or just some, or maybe not. But almost certainly they are linked to the Outsiders...

18. What the hell is a Destroyer? Last we knew Harry was merely referred to as Starborn or Child born of the Stars. The only thing we knew about them is that they were born with the potential to wield great power of the Outsiders. Doesn't smack of destruction directly. But what if Harry is more than merely a potential leader of Outsiders, or gate opener etc. What if he actually can cause mass magical destruction on his own? Would be very Dresden. And could explain why so many people want him on their team, or dead.

Their entire M.O. is degrading all the status quo power nations to create a vacuum.

SK - But that doesn't answer why the need to do it slowly. Why not do it quickly and efficiently? Just because they wish to destabilize the current world order does not mean they want to do it slowly. Where is the link? If you want to create a power vacuum remove a power suddenly with no easy replacement overnight and watch the fireworks. E.g. Harry's annihilation of the Red Court and the after effects in South America.

Kindler - the minutes to midnight schedule has been hinted at a lot. I understand that the Red Court wanted more time to build there forces, but the fact remains that they needed to wipe out the White Council in order to further their grand strategy - they could have waited 100 years if they wanted to, or done it some time in the past when the Council was weaker. Why now? What happens in the next few years that meant they felt compelled to attack the White Council (even if they were being manipulated by other forces)?

Are we going to see more of Nicodemus or Mavra?
Nicodemus will show up on schedule, which you can figure out if you stop to look at things, I think. Mavra’s not done yet either, but she eventually probably will be, and I’ll leave it at that.

stilleto929: There have been 3 times that Nicodemus has told Dresden that time is running out. In Death Masks, after capturing Harry, Nicodemus says, “Your history indicates that you are too dangerous to leave alive, I’m afraid – and I am on a schedule.” Then in Small Favor, in the aquarium, Nicodemus says, “…tempus fugit. For all of us.” Then again in Small Favor, in the boat, Nicodemus says, “Dresden, I truly regret this necessity, but time is growing short. I must act…” WHY would an effectively-immortal person be so worried about time?!? The first instance can be explained by having a plane to catch, but the others seem…unusual. Is Nicodemus’s concern about time significant? I.e. showing to the reader that he believes something BIG will happen soon, and he has to be ready? Or is this just a conversational ploy to move the plot along? Would appreciate any info you could give us about this issue. Thanks in advance! – Stiletto (Celia)

Jim: The clock is ticking, and the clued people know it. /Especially/ to someone a couple of thousand years old, it really feels like we’ve already hit the two minute warning.

I think there is another one about Mab as well. Basically even though Dresden doesn't know, something long in the making is about to kick off and I think it is quite plausible that many of the supernatural powers such as the Red Court and the Denarians have ideas about what they want to do about that moment when it comes.

I agree that Ortega was scary to many supernaturals in the same way the Hellhound is or Marcone - ruthless, committed and efficient individuals who just do what needs to be done without ego. But if Ortega didn't know Raith was weakened (which I doubt he or most others did) then he surely would have been at least wary and perhaps even afraid of Raith - surely he too would have known the stories Thomas had heard. Otherwise the fear of Ortega must also come from somewhere else, either Arianna or whoever she represented.

Yes I do wonder if Maggie + Co where the founding members of the Black Council...perhaps even current leaders of it (excluding Maggie). And perhaps Lea too...although she is a wild card.

I get what you're saying about Nemesis, but I do think the connection in words is at least somewhat interesting. Hmm. Nemesis may likely be limited, but I do wonder about its origins in the game.

So yes, the Black Court in that scene where Harry takes on Mavra with Murphy and Kincaid is somewhat what I am talking about. But that is more their effect on the environment, not so much about what makes BCV stronger. There is a WOJ about how BCV level up by farming XP during wars and plagues. This seems very similar to how Denarians are stronger in dark times, even if the methods and type of strength is different.

Interesting you mention the Spanish Flu...I think there was a relatively recent WOJ answering a question about whether the Spanish Flu was either a cover story or a side-effect of the Necromancy used by Kemmler, to which he didn't exactly answer but he did think the questioner was very clever and liked them but was tight lipped about it beyond that.

I think there is some link between the Spanish Flu and Kemmler, and considering he was both involved with both the Vampires and Demons and quite possibly Fallen, I would guess the main link is between him and the Vampires myself. Whether it was intended as a power boost or was a side-effect or something else entirely (like a cover up in the history books) remains to be seen.

It's strange but I am not so sure that Hell and the Outsiders are completely at odds, they almost seem to work in different spheres. But it is more than likely some Denarians are working with Outsiders (possibly directly) and some might be aiding them indirectly.


Morris - are you saying that the series has only occurred over 12 years (in-universe) and that it won't get to 20 years by the end of the case files? You could well be correct, although you haven't factored in any Time-shift shenanigans at the very least from Mirror-Mirror I think. Still though, something quite likely will happen at the end of the case files that catapults everything into the Capstone Trilogy surely. Maybe that's when the first apocalypse happens. Jim has mentioned there will be a few at least.

Selling Starborn children? Are we sure they are so common? I think she knew how to create one, and it was her job perhaps to sire one, but she panicked at the last second for some reason. We know very little of her life, but one thing we do know is she was cunning and passionate and vengeful and planned ahead. She laid that curse on Raith as revenge, she laid that spell on Thomas and Harry just for when they met, and I don't doubt for a second that she planned very specifically that Harry would be a Starborn. Perhaps that was why Raith was so desperate to kill her. He certainly didn't use the most efficient method to murder her.

Also tip of the hat for clarifying the modern use of decimate. Seems hardly anyone uses it correctly to the point where it has come to mean something far harsher than the original word.

Yes, the Blackstaff doesn't protect Eb from his conscience. That has been explicitly stated by Jim. But in that same WOJ, he also says it DOES protect him from Black Magic corruption, which is a magical effect (think nuclear radiation). Every time you use black magic (that nebulous term), it warps and changes and transforms the caster into a monster, a warlock. However not Eb. Eb's staff protects him (although likely there is a terrible cost) from that magical effect. The effect on his conscience, that has nothing to do with magic and everything to do with vanilla mortal moral concerns, is unavoidable.

Eb might still become (or perhaps already is) a monster in the human sense, like a murderer or rapist. But not in the magical, supernatural sense like a vampire or liche or warlock.

As G33k says, those who employ the forces of magic are not like vanilla mortals and so the are affected by forces vanilla mortals have no contact with, i.e. magic. And there are special consequences for them beyond that which vanilla mortals have for morally repugnant actions.

I think it is clear that it might stain his soul, but not in the SAME way that black magic stains. Just in the normal horrible moral way the rest of us have to live with.

Kindler, great argument!

I quite like the sobering nature of Lovecraft, and would find it both amusing and interesting if Jim pulled a fast one on us and for example revealed that TWG is Azahoth or something. He almost certainly won't, but it would be quite funny.

Mostly I think beings like Azahoth are analogous to the Old Ones (dresdenverse - can we really say that if they exist outside his Creation...?) and TWG/Creator/Almighty seems above or at least more than equal to them. But it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I do find it interesting how much DnD is in there though, although almost certainly Jim has combined the Demons of the Abyss with that of the Far Realm to create the Outsiders.

To my mind, they gave us this scene (with this particular monster) for a reason. They want us to think about it. It wasn't just by accident - which says to me that this monster isn't going to be just a run of the mill, in this scene and never again type of problem. They could have given us any scene with many other types of villains. But they chose this.

As good a one as any - I wonder a ritual, even if he didn't specifically use magic himself will affect him (in terms of black magic taint and madness). I think he pays the price enough that he had to physically murder Susan. Can't get more personal than that. Although admittedly she had just become a vampire, even if he had used magic to kill her he would have been safe from violating the First Law.

Also - raising Chauncy.

I am not sure if this has been discussed in it's own thread, so I am going to create this one.

Harry has been accused of killing a mortal with magic from the very first book (his duel with Justin that ended with Justin's death).

Harry also may have killed mortals during his rage moment in Grave Peril ("Fuego, Pyrofuego") as collateral damage. It was never fully investigated therefore it was left alone, but Harry suspects he did kill at least some of the young people.

He uses necromancy to raise Sue, which while apparently is technically fine as it only applies to mortal humans for some odd reason, was still actually necromancy. The rule literally is Thou Shall Not Reach Beyond The Borders Of Life. Nothing about whether human or not. Perhaps there is a whole section interpreting this rule - the same way people manage to find exceptions in the 10 Commandments...

He also skirts the law of enthrallment when binding Toot-toot initially, as apparently it only applies to mortals. Yet still Morgan was prepared to execute him.

Finally, the only other incident I can think of is when he raises the Ghosts in Bianca's house to kill her. Now you might argue he merely attracted them and they were already around, but he actually pours magic into them to make them corporeal to a degree. Sounds like necromancy to me. Definitely only involved humans.

Can you think of any other instances where Harry uses dark magic or any other shady actions?