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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: blgarver on July 08, 2008, 07:33:15 PM
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I'm almost finished with my first piece that I'm considering a novel. It's riddled with plot holes and character inconsistencies, but the first draft is almost complete. Meanwhile, I can feel my spirit growing tired and bored because I've worked myself into this rut: I have nothing going out to agents. Nothing submitted to magazines or anything. All my writing time is devoted to the WIP. I feel like I'm in limbo while I wrestle this mangled tome to completion. I want to work on something with more immediate potential, as the novel will require multiple rewrites that may take me another year or two. I will go insane waiting that long to get something circulating.
So after I finish the first draft, I want to work on something different. Something with the goal of selling so I can get out of the 9 to 5 crap and just be a writer. I need a break from my usual description-laden character-starved fantasy/horror writing. I want to write something character driven, something in the real world, with real people in real stories. No sword and sorcery. No ghosts and goblins. Just intriguing characters and interesting situations. I'm thinking of writing a TV series. I have an idea in mind, and it kind of goes against everything I have read, but I can't ignore my instinct. I may elaborate on that later, but for now I want to set the concept of the series aside. I would just like to glean some general info before I really decide to pursue this project.
Anyone here ever try to tackle the writing of a pilot? I have many questions for anyone with some knowledge of writing for TV.
Initial questions:
-How far do you plot the story for a serial? Do you only concentrate on the pilot, or go ahead and write more episodes?
-Where does most of the work lie? In the preparation for the writing (character development and plot weaving), or the actual writing of episodes. My initial impression is that the most work lies in creating vibrant characters that can carry and evolve the plot on their own, with very little manipulation from the writer.
-After the pilot is written and (hopefully) picked up, does the original writer stay on or does the network hand the story over to their own writers? Or do they put the original writer on the payroll?
That's all for now. Any input and enlightenment is very much appreciated.
Thank you in advance!
BLG
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Sup man, I'm a little green to the game but let me share some info I've learned while on these boards.
1) Writing as a profession isn't as easy as it sounds--Jim Butcher, the man who has brought us all together here, is one of the lucky few who can actually make a living on the books he writes. His nickname during these times (and currently, depending where you ask) was Longshot. Also keep in mind that instead of just writing what you want, you now have to keep in mind what your audience may want/expect. If you piss off your audience, they won't buy your books, if they don't buy your books, you are out on your ears.
2) you mention getting into Television...I have a friend who is trying to get into writing for TV series. It's difficult as hell, especially in Hollywood where everyone and their grandmothers are trying to get their scripts sold.
I'm not saying these things to deter you, I'm only trying to prepare you for an uphill climb.
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Oh I realize I have a better chance of getting hit by lightning. But I've wanted to be an author/screenwriter my entire life. I don't remember a time when I wanted to do anything else. And the passion is in my veins. The odds are stacked so high against me that I should just turn and walk away, but I can't. Even if I never am successful at writing professionally, I will always write. So I may as well turn it into something I can do for a living. I am having a hard time pursuing it right now because I'm balls deep in my novel, which I'm aware outright sucks right now. Several revisions are required before that thing sees the light of day, but I believe it has potential.
I need to try something different. So instead of writing fantasy novels I want to try and write a show that's set in our world. I think it will be a nice refresher to my normal stuff. Maybe flex some writing muscle that I never use. In any case, it won't hurt anything. Even if I fail, I will have the experience that I never had, and I will be a better writer for it.
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Go to mediabistro.com. They have an ad running for one of their online video courses on television writing, parts I and II. Short, sweet, some good ideas I suspect and inexpensive. Watch at your leisure. It will cost a little bit more if you aren't a member but it would be a great introduction to their classes. If you want to see similar classes and don't live in a population hub like NYC or Chicago or LA there are many online classes.
Let me know what you think after you look it over. I printed notes for my own purposes as I thought the suggestions appropriate to novel writing as well, but it would be faster to just take the class. :-)
As to bread and butter....
I took two classes with some pros in the mix and was amazed how they all made their money on non-fiction books. Apparently much easier to get published and they'll look at book proposals in a much easier light than fiction. Just an idea you might want to think about. In addition, those who were published with novels usually had first published and gotten agent representation first through non-fiction.
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Hmmm...nonfiction, eh? I never really thought about that. And I wouldn't have the faintest idea as to where to start. My mind doesn't work that way. But I may have to look into it.
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That nonfiction suggestion nudged me in another direction. Thanks!
I am leaning toward doing a series of short stories and novellas based on and inspired by my life. Yeah I know...who am I and why would people want to read about me. Well, I'm just using situations from my life to fuel the stories. It will be set in a small local TV station and will deal with the lives of a small group of characters that work there, and maybe a few outside the station. It will be about the lowly production staff, though, not about the news anchors.
Yes, I work in a local TV station. I make local commercials. And there is a load of material that could be polished into a dramedy that goes on in this place. All kinds of crap. But a good portion of the stories come out of the things the characters (in RL, my colleagues and I) do outside of work. There are plenty of inner-station situations that are just classic as well. And I will probably work in some stories from my past, what i like to call "My Jerry Springer Moments" and other times.
I think this could work. I'm excited to work in another genre. Any thoughts? Anyone have some input about using one's own life as an ispiration for fiction writing?
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Writing well is difficult. It takes years to master and even harder to be recognized. I'd recommend start with short stories rather than a long book. Pick subjects you have knowledge of and are interested in. Stories based partially on things that happened to you and people you know is a good start.
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Sweet, that's what I was hoping to hear. I'm confident in my writing ability. I'm no King or Crichton or Butcher obviously, but I don't suck. But I'm a no name, so I realize I have to start someplace. I have that novel on the burner that needs some work, and might have a chance at seeing the light of day at some point. But that definately won't be until I'm already known at least somewhat. It's a fantasy novel, naturally, so I'm automatically up against many many many many new writers trying to break in. But if I could find a niche for a series of shorts/novellas set in the TV station, maybe I would be on the right path.
I'm 26. It's definately time for me to hunker down and start actively working toward this goal. Maybe in my 30s I will see some sort of success.
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I'm no King or Crichton or Butcher obviously, but I don't suck.
Good, don't be them, be yourself, those guys are already taken.
One bit of advice, and this is something that helped me survive a two semester long writing workshop at college (that and happy hour) : Do Not Compare Your Work To Others. Writers are too far involved in their stories and are highly biased one way or the other. You can look at other writers and works, see how they did or might of done something, and then take that with you, do not judge your story based on the criteria of others, it never ends well.
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Yeah, that's good advice. I don't compare my work with other writers, it's more my writing habits that I compare. Like, I kick myself in the ass when I make some lame excuse for quitting my session for the day, when after his accident, King would sit at his desk until he was in tears from the pain in his back and physically couldn't do it any longer. Pretty hard core.
btw, I started the first of the stories. One page in...Woo! So far I like where it's going.
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This kind of struck a chord with me, at least the part about nothing going out. I have one full short story written, one in progress, a bunch of ideas laying around on note cards, and a novel I've finally started working on. I've always had a problem with (as one person put it) "the bear". I feel down on myself until I just don't want to try, so I don't actually do the writing. Ok, sorry, so that was about me... this comes back to the topic below, I swear! ;)
Fortunately my complete short story had already been critiqued, edited, reviewed, etc. So I sent it out. We'll see what happens, but just doing that seemed to free me up. It's in limbo. Maybe I'll never get a response, and it doesn't matter. For the last 2 weeks, I've finally felt free to write the novel that's been brewing, because I'm trying to get out there, instead of just thinking about it a lot, and I've been able to get much more work done than in the previous several YEARS!
I also don't think that there is anything wrong with switching tracks now and then. Basically what I'm saying is that it probably is a good idea to finish your draft first, then let it lie a few months (that's common advice). That's the time to work on some short stories. Get your ideas out into a more fleshed-out format, and see if any of them start to take you somewhere farther. These are just some thoughts, but the more samples you have, the more likely someone will pick up your screenwriting too. Whatever your format is, though, "shorts" are good for exercise and experimentation. Shorts are also a lot easier to get published, and you can try a lot of different things with them.
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Yeah, that's good advice. I don't compare my work with other writers, it's more my writing habits that I compare. Like, I kick myself in the ass when I make some lame excuse for quitting my session for the day, when after his accident, King would sit at his desk until he was in tears from the pain in his back and physically couldn't do it any longer. Pretty hard core.
Well, yes, but...
Reading On Writing, one thing that was very clear to me is how much of King's working approach is shaped by how bad his memory is. It seemed strongly implied to me that he needs to be sitting down and working every day in order to be able to remember enough of what he is doing.
The published genre novelist whose working patterns I know best, in that we are married - seven novels published, nominee for several major awards over the years and winner of a couple, not a bestseller but a respectable midlist success, and one of the main reasons why my real name is not out - works in spurts, and frequently has months on end of not being able to get any writing done. What matters is not words set down at the end of the day. It's words set down at the end of the year whether you do a couple of hundred daily, or a couple of thousand weekly, or, like Iain Banks a novel in six weeks and spend the rest of the year lazing about.
(I am not married to Iain Banks.)
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Yeah I get that...and if I was already published and professional, on whatever level, I wouldn't feel bad about going weeks without writing. Well, AS bad anyway. Right now I feel like I should be working toward my goal every chance I have.
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King's word on that is to write at least 2k words a day. I have so many post-its in my copy of "On Writing" it's not funny.
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2k a day is pretty steep for me, after working 8 hours, but it's what I try to hit. In fact, I'm off to work on today's quota.
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I've read 4 pages a day.
I've also read (in the same book, as it happens) that the important thing is to set a goal for YOUR life and YOUR commitments and then stick to it. If it's 3 pages, fine. If it's 8, fine.
By the 250 words/page formula, 2000 words would be 8 pages. Four pages is 1000 words.
Now if I could only stick with that... we'll see. :)
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I've read 4 pages a day.
I've also read (in the same book, as it happens) that the important thing is to set a goal for YOUR life and YOUR commitments and then stick to it. If it's 3 pages, fine. If it's 8, fine.
By the 250 words/page formula, 2000 words would be 8 pages. Four pages is 1000 words.
Now if I could only stick with that... we'll see. :)
If you call one novel a year 100,000 words, that's 2,000 words a week plus revision time, and two weeks off for good behaviour. Putting in a good solid session most Friday nights - unless there is a reason to do it Saturday instead, as there happens to be this coming weekend - works a lot better for me to get to that than trying to get into the right mindset for writing every single evening. Forcing a story that's not ready can kill it
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If you call one novel a year 100,000 words, that's 2,000 words a week plus revision time, and two weeks off for good behaviour. Putting in a good solid session most Friday nights - unless there is a reason to do it Saturday instead, as there happens to be this coming weekend - works a lot better for me to get to that than trying to get into the right mindset for writing every single evening. Forcing a story that's not ready can kill it
Wow, I like that angle. I REALLy like that angle. 2000 a week is cake. Don't know why I've never thought about it that way before. I may just try to do that. Though I might shoot for 500 words a day, to add up to 3500 each week. I like to write SOMETHING every day, it keeps me in a good mood.
Thanks for that perspective, neurovore. Yesterday I did 980 words in about an hour and a half. I only stopped because the ex showed up at my writing spot and I had to make a speedy exit.
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Wow, I like that angle. I REALLy like that angle. 2000 a week is cake. Don't know why I've never thought about it that way before. I may just try to do that.
It doesn't work if you are Jim Butcher or Charlie Stross and trying to deliver two or three books a year, but then by the point in your career where you're Jim Butcher or Charlie Stross you generally don't have a day job to worry about.
Though I might shoot for 500 words a day, to add up to 3500 each week. I like to write SOMETHING every day, it keeps me in a good mood.
If that works for you, sure; I'm not pushing the method that works for me, specifically; just concerned that anyone looking at writing advice, even good writing advice, is reasonably aware of people's working styles varying and that being a legitimate thing.
Yesterday I did 980 words in about an hour and a half. I only stopped because the ex showed up at my writing spot and I had to make a speedy exit.
I don't think I have any exes that would prompt that reaction, which is probably for the best. (Last time I worked it out, I was still on close and friendly terms with almost exactly three-quarters of the people I have ever been involved with; getting those numbers to come out absolutely even would be a damned stupid reason to seek out one more new sweetie, I think.)
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Well I usually end up with passionate/unstable women for some reason, so I've only had one relationship end gracefully. Just the most recent ex being there threw me off and I couldn't concentrate any more. Crappy deal is that I live in a small town, so unless I want to lock myself in my apartment I will inevitabley run into her.
The ex in question is also a member of these boards. Awesome, right?
But anyway, I can usually get 500 words in after work with little difficulty before Real Life swoops in and clouds my thinking.
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Just the most recent ex being there threw me off and I couldn't concentrate any more. Crappy deal is that I live in a small town, so unless I want to lock myself in my apartment I will inevitabley run into her.
My sympathies, and I hope that did not come across as pushy.
But anyway, I can usually get 500 words in after work with little difficulty before Real Life swoops in and clouds my thinking.
Part of why that does not really fit with my schedule is that I'm a two-large-meals-a-day person, and by the time I get home from work on a working day, it's been long enough since breakfast that I am hungry. And then I eat a lot, and then I get torpid.
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Lol, yeah food will knock me out. But my main writing spot is at the Perkins in town. So I always get something to eat. Occassionally I eat before I go in, then just have coffee and water, but I don't think they like when I am there for five hours and only have drinks.
My main conflict is my video game vice; I have to make time for them AND writing in the small space of free time after work. Sometimes, if it's been a crap day at work, the video games win alltogether and I just veg out.