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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Wolfhowls on January 10, 2008, 12:38:22 AM
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Ok I have gaming for about 16 years now and I still have no clue what the difference between diceless and LARP. Could someone please explain this to me?
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Happily:
Diceless can be done via the net, over the phone, just chatting with one another, where a story teller type person makes decisions to say when things work or don't, in such a way to create a fun and imaginative role playing adventure. A LARP is literally Live Action. This means costumes, and equipment and people playing good and bad guys interacting on an individual basis. So, if you are a real klutz, or get tongue tied, you can't make a blanket statement to save yourself.
Diceless: I make a really cool jump over the heads of my opponents and attack from behind.
LARP: Uhm, *wishes he could actually do a really cool jump* hi guys... Nothing going on here. *whistles*
Likewise--
Diceless: The baddies see you an attack, even though you snuck as quietly as you could.
LARP: The bad guys totally don't notice you as you steal all their supplies. Even though any idiot could see you doing it.
See? More reality.
Diceless: Player: I speak that obscure language. ST: Okay, you can speak Fulani-Hauser.
LARP: Player: WTF is he saying? Player2: Sounds like Oooga booga booga splurm to me.
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Yeah,
LARP mean live Action, so that means the players are physically acting out the what is happening.
Diceless just means you play the story out through story telling without using numbers and dice to determine the outcome.
Most LARPs are probably diceless, but it would be possible to have one in which dice were rolled to determine damage done by hits or something.
It's also possible to sit around a table with characters printed on paper, and tell stories without acting them out, and never use dice.
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Ok I get it now.
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I knew, for example, a Masquerade LARP that resolved everything with a rock-paper-scissor system.
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I knew, for example, a Masquerade LARP that resolved everything with a rock-paper-scissor system.
That's ...hmmm...kind of....retarded.
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That's ...hmmm...kind of....retarded.
There were stats and modifiers and everything else that would constitute a system, but for the random element they use r-p-s. In a park at midnight its kinda hard to role dice.
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Yeah, while R-P-S seems sort of absurd, it is actually used in quite a few LARP games because of the lack-of-dice factor.
Imagine battlin' with someone and having to stop to roll dice. At least with R-R-S you do the wrist-shake thing and then keep on playing.
Having said that, I've only read LARP rules but have never really played. I had thought about importing a LARP system into my diceless game just to force players to stand up and do something occasionally, but it never materialized. ::)
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It looks silly as hell, but since Rock Paper Scissors is basically rolling a d3 it would actually make a nice FATE conversion... win means +1, tie means 0, lose means -1. I am thoroughly opposed to larps in general, but they'd be at least a BIT better if they didn't use those fucked up Mind's Eye Theater rules.
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I'd be most in favor of more LARPs taking a look at Polaris.
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That's ...hmmm...kind of....retarded.
QFT
Always hated the fact that conflict resolution in what was supposed to be a horror genre game is most often mastered before 2nd grade.
As a point of interest, some LARPs DO use some dice rolling to determine randomness, but its rarely involved in anything "fast-paced".
Another point is there are two main "styles" of LARP:
1. "Boffer LARPs" - I hit you with a padded weapon (generally in the woods) and we're dressed and living as our characters for the duration of the game. Almost everyone is "in play" though everywhere may not be.
2. "Salon-Style LARPs" - I tell you what I'm doing in a manner similar to what tabletop RPGers would see as standard role-playing. There are GMs who spend time OOP moderating or doing GMish things, but most interaction is between PCs. Conflict resolution is generally done via some sort of randomizing element (R/S/P, dice, coin-toss, etc) or occassionally on a point-system basis.
"Salon-style" LARPs have been, in my experience, less time consuming, require a less "active" player base, less about costuming and more PvP heavy. Where as "Boffer" LARPs tend to be involve a longer time commitment (usually a full day at least, more often a whole weekend), generally involve more makeup/costuming/ props, more PVE centric and require a more active player base.
~KF
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I'd be most in favor of more LARPs taking a look at Polaris.
Polaris the Con? or Polaris something else?
With all this talk about Diceless and LARP, I am really looking forward to learning the rules for Diceless. And looking into doing some LARPing.
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Polaris the Con? or Polaris something else?
Polaris, the RPG:
http://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16160&cat=0&bestseller
It's a 95% diceless game (there is a die rolled occasionally, but it's rare) that uses structured, ritual language for negotiating conflicts, and has my vote for "pen and paper RPG that LARPs could learn the most from".
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Carp ANOTHER role playing book I need/want to buy now. Lets see I'm buying Dresden Diceless and now Polaris ...I wonder what else will come out that I will have to get. Because sooner or later, I'm going to be without a kidney and eating ramen noodles all the damn time.
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It looks silly as hell, but since Rock Paper Scissors is basically rolling a d3 it would actually make a nice FATE conversion... win means +1, tie means 0, lose means -1. I am thoroughly opposed to larps in general, but they'd be at least a BIT better if they didn't use those fucked up Mind's Eye Theater rules.
It doesnt have to be silly...
It can be done descriptively call them Direct, Guided and Deceptive or Simple, Aimed and Fake if you wil, then add in some Risk choices to control how much oomph you are throwing in to it... and you have something with flavor. (my risk plus your risk equals the bonus to the intensity of the result for both of us)
Note while larping you could use cards with the words on them to ease simultaneous revealment.
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Diceless just means you play the story out through story telling without using numbers and dice to determine the outcome.
That's not quite true.
Taken most literally, diceless just means that it doesn't involve dice. Diceless games may or may not involve other randomizers, and they generally involve some sort of numbers. Everway, for example, involves no dice, but it does use a tarot-like deck, and characters have numeric traits.
Sometimes people say diceless when they mean randomless. Randomless games involve no chance, but they often involve numbers and resource management. Nobilis has four numerical traits and each has a pool of miracle points. You don't succeed or fail based on chance, but on how willing you are to spend your resources, and how clever you are in bringing any conflict into an area in which you dominate.
What you've described above I would call freeform. The closest I can get from my game experience is Puppetland. Characters are defined by what they are (tall, strong, etc), what they can do (run very fast, climb moderately well, etc), and what they cannot do (fit through small spaces, shout loudly, etc). Players state their intention, and the GM tells them what happens.
A note on freeform RPGs: They often involve sharing narrative authority around the table to a degree not seen in "traditional" RPGs. I cannot recall the name of the game, but in one if your character is, for example, a knowledgeable biologist, you get the narrative authority to resolve any situation related to biological science information.
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I've always been interested in LARPing, just because, hey, I've been swinging swords at invisible S*$! since I was 2. Never got around to it.
However...I would consider a Dresden LARP...hmm...
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The new Mind's Eye Theater rules have gone from an R-P-S system to a card or d10 system. Have a set of cards, 1 thru 10, and when ever you have a skill check against someone, you draw a card from each others deck. 1's are epic fails, and 10's explode. We found it easier to just get a nice d10, put it in a little clear case and shake it to get your results. Made it a little more random, and harder for people to cheat (had some people bring marked cards).
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Nice. dig up a year old thread to tell me I'm an idiot. I'm sure you could have found something much more recent for that. :)
That's not quite true.
Taken most literally, diceless just means that it doesn't involve dice. Diceless games may or may not involve other randomizers, and they generally involve some sort of numbers. Everway, for example, involves no dice, but it does use a tarot-like deck, and characters have numeric traits.
Sometimes people say diceless when they mean randomless. Randomless games involve no chance, but they often involve numbers and resource management. Nobilis has four numerical traits and each has a pool of miracle points. You don't succeed or fail based on chance, but on how willing you are to spend your resources, and how clever you are in bringing any conflict into an area in which you dominate.
What you've described above I would call freeform. The closest I can get from my game experience is Puppetland. Characters are defined by what they are (tall, strong, etc), what they can do (run very fast, climb moderately well, etc), and what they cannot do (fit through small spaces, shout loudly, etc). Players state their intention, and the GM tells them what happens.
A note on freeform RPGs: They often involve sharing narrative authority around the table to a degree not seen in "traditional" RPGs. I cannot recall the name of the game, but in one if your character is, for example, a knowledgeable biologist, you get the narrative authority to resolve any situation related to biological science information.
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Nice. dig up a year old thread to tell me I'm an idiot. I'm sure you could have found something much more recent for that. :)
No need for the hostility, man. I just saw that there was a new post and that I hadn't read anything in the thread. Didn't even check the dates.