ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: KurtinStGeorge on August 24, 2024, 04:31:28 AM
-
I assume Harry isn’t picking the locations for his dates with Lara. It appears that Molly will negotiate with the White Court; meaning with Lara, on where these dates will take place. I also assume these talks will include discussions about what Harry will wear in order to make the right impression. Harry probably won’t like that and my guess is he will probably hate it.
This might be a question best answered by someone who lives, has lived in or has visited Chicago frequently. If not, perhaps you have heard of some place in Chicago that you think would make a good dating location for Harry and Lara.
Aside from places mentioned in the Dresden Files; like the Shedd Aquarium and the Field Museum, the only place I know about in Chicago is Wrigley Field, but somehow I can’t see Harry taking Lara to a Cubs game. Peanuts, beer and hotdogs don’t seem to be Lara’s style, though I suppose I could be surprised. I believe the Chicago Bears still play at Soldier Field, but again, I don’t see Lara going in for a tailgate party.
It is also possible that Harry and Lara will have to make an appearance at some kind of party thrown by Winter, Summer or another player in the supernatural crowd, just as Eldest Gruff had to make an appearance at Harry’s birthday party at Arctis Tor. That could be a location for a date, but it isn’t as much fun speculating on something like that happening.
Does anyone wish to speculate on where one or more of these dates might take place?
-
While I anticipate that most of these dates will be to political and social soirees, a Cubs game should definitely be on the docket if Harry gets to choose any date sites. And there will definitely be one or two events involving Marcone as host or guest.
-
I assume that Mab will want Harry and Lara to present the alliance in many locations, and not just in Chicago. Traveling in the Nevernever won't an an issue, and Harry also has his mother's map of the Ways.
-
I think Lara may have some demands of her own, like before the first date she may want to visit her brother in prison. I think there are going to be a lot more external political complications for any alliance or even for them to date.
-
I assume Harry isn’t picking the locations for his dates with Lara. It appears that Molly will negotiate with the White Court; meaning with Lara, on where these dates will take place. I also assume these talks will include discussions about what Harry will wear in order to make the right impression. Harry probably won’t like that and my guess is he will probably hate it.
This might be a question best answered by someone who lives, has lived in or has visited Chicago frequently. If not, perhaps you have heard of some place in Chicago that you think would make a good dating location for Harry and Lara.
Aside from places mentioned in the Dresden Files; like the Shedd Aquarium and the Field Museum, the only place I know about in Chicago is Wrigley Field, but somehow I can’t see Harry taking Lara to a Cubs game. Peanuts, beer and hotdogs don’t seem to be Lara’s style, though I suppose I could be surprised. I believe the Chicago Bears still play at Soldier Field, but again, I don’t see Lara going in for a tailgate party.
It is also possible that Harry and Lara will have to make an appearance at some kind of party thrown by Winter, Summer or another player in the supernatural crowd, just as Eldest Gruff had to make an appearance at Harry’s birthday party at Arctis Tor. That could be a location for a date, but it isn’t as much fun speculating on something like that happening.
Does anyone wish to speculate on where one or more of these dates might take place?
Contemplating that, it suddenly struck me that Harry and Lara might have a genuine bonding moment by a spur-of-the-moment evasion of a planned event. They're supposed to be doing such-and-such at Boring Public Venue Whatever, and they're both bored and on some impulse duck out and go do something else...like maybe a Cubs game? Or pizza and a movie or something. Something ordinary and human.
I can imagine Harry's sudden horror as they return home and he realizes he just enjoyed an evening with Lara...and maybe a realization that he enjoyed an evening out with Anna Ashe's murderess...
Plus I suspect the Winter Lady would give them her best Death Glare...
-
Have to go back and reread the whole passage from Battle Ground, but just who was Mab negotiating with when she came up with this idea of a marriage between Lara and Harry? Did she negotiate with Lord Raith? Isn't Lara head of her part of the White Court anyway, and she seemed just as surprised and unthrilled with the idea as Harry. For some reason I just cannot remember who in power in the White Court agreed with Mab that Lara and Harry should marry to cement an alliance. Was a contract or treaty written up?
-
Have to go back and reread the whole passage from Battle Ground, but just who was Mab negotiating with when she came up with this idea of a marriage between Lara and Harry? Did she negotiate with Lord Raith? Isn't Lara head of her part of the White Court anyway, and she seemed just as surprised and unthrilled with the idea as Harry. For some reason I just cannot remember who in power in the White Court agreed with Mab that Lara and Harry should marry to cement an alliance. Was a contract or treaty written up?
Nope. That was Mab pulling the Faerie bargain trick.
One of the favors Lara asked Mab for was an alliance with Winter. Another was permission to court her Knight. Mab saw the tiny spark that went between them when they shook hands and granted both favors with the arranged marriage. Basically, she got Lara with the faerie deal trick and Harry has to go along because it's a lawful order from Queen to Knight.
-
Nope. That was Mab pulling the Faerie bargain trick.
One of the favors Lara asked Mab for was an alliance with Winter. Another was permission to court her Knight. Mab saw the tiny spark that went between them when they shook hands and granted both favors with the arranged marriage. Basically, she got Lara with the faerie deal trick and Harry has to go along because it's a lawful order from Queen to Knight.
Thanks now I remember, however I don't think it will work until the issues with Thomas are solved. If you will remember Lara was very unhappy when Harry put Thomas in that cell.
-
Maybe I misunderstand vincentric's reply, I don't believe Lara asked to court the WK. I read BG as Lara requesting an alliance between Winter and the WC, and Mab saying 'yes, and it will be done by marrying Lara to the WK.' Given Lara's reaction, I don't think she expressly or implicitly asked to court/marry Harry, or even thought that's how an alliance would be consummated. (Double meaning intended.)
-
Lara’s eyes became grim, and she gave me a small, firm nod and offered me her hand. “Shake on it, wizard?” I nodded and traded grips with her. “Agreed.” And a flickering something went between us. It wasn’t White Court mojo, I didn’t think. Just . . . a shivering note of energy. A harmony. It was a promise both of us had put a measure of will behind. It was a promise both of us meant to keep. We both had the same feelings about family. “Excellent,” said Mab from behind us. “Lady Lara, upon due consideration, your third favor is granted. You have my permission to court my Knight. The wedding will commence at sundown.” “Uh,” I said, “what?” Lara arched an eyebrow. “What?” “WHAT!!??” sputtered Molly.
Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files Book 17) (p. 388). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
I mean, Mab states the favor outright here.
-
Lara’s eyes became grim, and she gave me a small, firm nod and offered me her hand. “Shake on it, wizard?” I nodded and traded grips with her. “Agreed.” And a flickering something went between us. It wasn’t White Court mojo, I didn’t think. Just . . . a shivering note of energy. A harmony. It was a promise both of us had put a measure of will behind. It was a promise both of us meant to keep. We both had the same feelings about family. “Excellent,” said Mab from behind us. “Lady Lara, upon due consideration, your third favor is granted. You have my permission to court my Knight. The wedding will commence at sundown.” “Uh,” I said, “what?” Lara arched an eyebrow. “What?” “WHAT!!??” sputtered Molly.
Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files Book 17) (p. 388). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
I mean, Mab states the favor outright here.
The question becomes what did Lara promise to Mab? And why does Lara want to court Harry? Me thinks this is going to get very complicated... Someone, not clear at this point whether it is Mab or Lara may have outsmarted herself...
-
The question becomes what did Lara promise to Mab? And why does Lara want to court Harry? Me thinks this is going to get very complicated... Someone, not clear at this point whether it is Mab or Lara may have outsmarted herself...
It's a long-term plan with Harry as an integral part. Chaos is assured.
Ooh! What if one of these dates is a dinner at Michael's.
-
Contemplating that, it suddenly struck me that Harry and Lara might have a genuine bonding moment by a spur-of-the-moment evasion of a planned event. They're supposed to be doing such-and-such at Boring Public Venue Whatever, and they're both bored and on some impulse duck out and go do something else...like maybe a Cubs game? Or pizza and a movie or something. Something ordinary and human.
I can imagine Harry's sudden horror as they return home and he realizes he just enjoyed an evening with Lara...and maybe a realization that he enjoyed an evening out with Anna Ashe's murderess...
Plus I suspect the Winter Lady would give them her best Death Glare...
I like the idea of Harry and Lara enjoying some time together. I actually think Lara would be surprised and interested by the Field Museum. They could also visit some historical museum so Lara can relive a few of the days of old. It would be so novel for her, because I do not think any other man wanted to do with her. Of course, dinner and wine will still be required.
Again, I do not think Harry could ever love her, she is too much of a monster. And she is probably still angry about Thomas.
Last, Lara killed Hannah? I did not remember that (I remember she was infected by Lasciel and that she died, but not precisely how). I may need to reread SG.
-
I like the idea of Harry and Lara enjoying some time together. I actually think Lara would be surprised and interested by the Field Museum. They could also visit some historical museum so Lara can relive a few of the days of old. It would be so novel for her, because I do not think any other man wanted to do with her. Of course, dinner and wine will still be required.
Again, I do not think Harry could ever love her, she is too much of a monster. And she is probably still angry about Thomas.
Last, Lara killed Hannah? I did not remember that (I remember she was infected by Lasciel and that she died, but not precisely how). I may need to reread SG.
If I remember correctly Harry killed Hannah, he brought a couple of tons of molten rock ceiling down on her head.
-
I think there is some confusion here between Anna Ashe; who was killed by the Skavis (Pricilla) in White Night, and Hannah Asher who we remember as the super skilled fire wielder and also a Denarian from Skin Game; who we thought died under a couple tons of molten rock, but apparently not.
It was Lara who manipulated the campaign to kill minor magical talents into being; to pit House Skavis and House Malvora against one another, even though it was the head of House Skavis who actually ordered it and sent his heir apparent to carry out. This makes Lara ultimately responsible for the deaths of Anna and the other women killed by Skavis and Malvora.
It is a bit confusing because we don't really know the details, we know that Lara only weakly contested Harry's accusations that she was responsible by pointing out that Lord Skavis had promoted a similar plan a century earlier. She never said, "I didn't do it."
I think Harry would be disturbed that he truly enjoyed Lara's company, but not because of any one or several deaths she has caused. Harry knows that Lara must be responsible for hundreds of deaths in her lifetime. Harry has often pretended that the only reason he is attracted to Lara is because of her White Court mojo, but being forced to recognize his attraction is deeper than that; and I'm not talking about true love, the fact that Harry genuinely likes Lara and likes spending time with her would be disturbing to Harry.
Harry has always been hard on himself. Harry would question if enjoying spending time with a monster; a beautiful, intelligent, charming, fun loving and polite monster, but a monster none the less, would mean that he is losing his battle to remain himself and not give in to the pressure of the Winter Knight's mantel or give in to Mab's schemes to mold him. I think Harry would worry that he is taking another step into becoming a monster himself.
-
I think there is some confusion here between Anna Ashe; who was killed by the Skavis (Pricilla) in White Night, and Hannah Asher who we remember as the super skilled fire wielder and also a Denarian from Skin Game; who we thought died under a couple tons of molten rock, but apparently not.
It was Lara who manipulated the campaign to kill minor magical talents into being; to pit House Skavis and House Malvora against one another, even though it was the head of House Skavis who actually ordered it and sent his heir apparent to carry out. This makes Lara ultimately responsible for the deaths of Anna and the other women killed by Skavis and Malvora.
It is a bit confusing because we don't really know the details, we know that Lara only weakly contested Harry's accusations that she was responsible by pointing out that Lord Skavis had promoted a similar plan a century earlier. She never said, "I didn't do it."
Exactly. Whenever I catch myself thinking of Lara as a 'good girl', even loosely, I remind myself that we can always ask Anna Ashe for a character reference-wait, no, we actually can't, can we? And there would have been a lot more dead minor practitioners except that Thomas ran interference.
From Lara's POV it was a triple-win: it set Malvora and Skavis against each other, it reinforced her own control over the Court, and it possibly weakened the White Council in the future, at least potentially, by removing the women who might potentially give birth to possible Wizards.
-
I think there is some confusion here between Anna Ashe; who was killed by the Skavis (Pricilla) in White Night, and Hannah Asher who we remember as the super skilled fire wielder and also a Denarian from Skin Game; who we thought died under a couple tons of molten rock, but apparently not.
It was Lara who manipulated the campaign to kill minor magical talents into being; to pit House Skavis and House Malvora against one another, even though it was the head of House Skavis who actually ordered it and sent his heir apparent to carry out. This makes Lara ultimately responsible for the deaths of Anna and the other women killed by Skavis and Malvora.
It is a bit confusing because we don't really know the details, we know that Lara only weakly contested Harry's accusations that she was responsible by pointing out that Lord Skavis had promoted a similar plan a century earlier. She never said, "I didn't do it."
I think Harry would be disturbed that he truly enjoyed Lara's company, but not because of any one or several deaths she has caused. Harry knows that Lara must be responsible for hundreds of deaths in her lifetime. Harry has often pretended that the only reason he is attracted to Lara is because of her White Court mojo, but being forced to recognize his attraction is deeper than that; and I'm not talking about true love, the fact that Harry genuinely likes Lara and likes spending time with her would be disturbing to Harry.
Harry has always been hard on himself. Harry would question if enjoying spending time with a monster; a beautiful, intelligent, charming, fun loving and polite monster, but a monster none the less, would mean that he is losing his battle to remain himself and not give in to the pressure of the Winter Knight's mantel or give in to Mab's schemes to mold him. I think Harry would worry that he is taking another step into becoming a monster himself.
True, I was mistaken. I wish they were not so many similar names. We also have other Anna (Valmont) and Ana (Anastasia) Luccio.
And I agree with the rest of what you said.
-
Harry has always been hard on himself. Harry would question if enjoying spending time with a monster; a beautiful, intelligent, charming, fun loving and polite monster, but a monster none the less, would mean that he is losing his battle to remain himself and not give in to the pressure of the Winter Knight's mantel or give in to Mab's schemes to mold him. I think Harry would worry that he is taking another step into becoming a monster himself.
Yes, unless of course he is successful in manipulating that monster, which he has some success at. He did manipulate Laciel's Shadow, renaming her Lash ultimately sacrificing herself for him. Now he did pay a price for that with the original. I think having Lara as a girlfriend eventually a wife is like keeping a domesticated tiger in your house. It might be cuddly, beautiful, even fun, but at the end of the day, it is still a tiger. A fact of life is, tigers can and do eat people if hungry enough and given a chance, it is their nature. Because of her Hunger demon, Lara sees all humanity as kine, the fact that Harry is a wizard, Winter Knight, and her half brother's half-brother, doesn't change that.. Oh creepy thought, though not related by blood, but as half brother to her half brother, is Harry also her brother? ??? :o
-
Yes, unless of course he is successful in manipulating that monster, which he has some success at. He did manipulate Laciel's Shadow, renaming her Lash ultimately sacrificing herself for him. Now he did pay a price for that with the original. I think having Lara as a girlfriend eventually a wife is like keeping a domesticated tiger in your house. It might be cuddly, beautiful, even fun, but at the end of the day, it is still a tiger. A fact of life is, tigers can and do eat people if hungry enough and given a chance, it is their nature. Because of her Hunger demon, Lara sees all humanity as kine, the fact that Harry is a wizard, Winter Knight, and her half brother's brother, doesn't change that.. Oh creepy thought, though not related by blood, but as half brother to her half brother, is Harry also her brother? ??? :o
No, he is not her brother but I do remember they talking about rescuing "our brother" and then the idea of them together became creepier. Still, there is really no reason. They are not blood related and they did not grow together, so they are not siblings in any way. It is just that the "our brother" sounds bad.
-
No, he is not her brother but I do remember they talking about rescuing "our brother" and then the idea of them together became creepier. Still, there is really no reason. They are not blood related and they did not grow together, so they are not siblings in any way. It is just that the "our brother" sounds bad.
Yeah, I understand that they aren't related by blood, but it is still a little creepy and feels a wee bit like incest. However that is a digression from my original point, no matter how great they get along, Lara will always see Harry as a food source. Unless Harry found a way to kill her Hunger demon, which I am not sure she'd go along with, there is no getting around that fact. It could be that Mab isn't looking for an alliance with the White Court but rather just another leash to keep her Knight in line.. Harry gets out of line? Mab orders Lara to go a little heavier on her munchies.
-
I hope the fact that Lara and Harry share a brother, but aren't technically related, is a source of joking or tension in 12 Months. Lara grew up when the Hapsburg chin was still a good thing and she's had way more incestuous sex than with her half-brother's half-brother (thanks Papa Raith). She almost certainly won't be bothered by this relationship to Harry but he probably will.
-
If you think Harry will have trouble adjusting, just imagine how much mileage Jim can get from Thomas's reactions if he is ever freed. Thomas and Michael would be 1a and 1b for best man or would you make Thomas the ring bearer?
-
One of my first reactions after reading Mab saying they have to marry was..."oh, Eb won't be happy". I honestly think he may try to kill Lara. Perhaps he even succeeds, making more drama for Harry (and Thomas when he is freed). But really, it is really cruel to make Harry (Eb's grandson) the son in law of his mother's killer. Seems excessive, even for Mab.
-
One of my first reactions after reading Mab saying they have to marry was..."oh, Eb won't be happy". I honestly think he may try to kill Lara. Perhaps he even succeeds, making more drama for Harry (and Thomas when he is freed). But really, it is really cruel to make Harry (Eb's grandson) the son in law of his mother's killer. Seems excessive, even for Mab.
Got to disagree here. The hero marrying the daughter of the villain that killed his parent(s) is fairly common in fantasy. It's jarring here, because Lara is not a damsel to be rescued but a mature power in her own right that had an equal role in taking down said villain. The key being, we don't know if she'll reform to the hero's morals. She'd have to do quite a bit to earn redemption, but if she really did seek it, she could have 300+ years as Harry's wife if they both survive.
-
Well, we agree to disagree then. I think it is cruel but perhaps Mab or Lea are planning for Harry to get even more of a revenge of Raith for killing Maggie.
-
If you think Harry will have trouble adjusting, just imagine how much mileage Jim can get from Thomas's reactions if he is ever freed. Thomas and Michael would be 1a and 1b for best man or would you make Thomas the ring bearer?
I don't think Thomas will be back so soon. He probably won't see the wedding. But Michael has to be best man! I am so looking forward to Michael talking to Lara.
One of my first reactions after reading Mab saying they have to marry was..."oh, Eb won't be happy". I honestly think he may try to kill Lara. Perhaps he even succeeds, making more drama for Harry (and Thomas when he is freed). But really, it is really cruel to make Harry (Eb's grandson) the son in law of his mother's killer. Seems excessive, even for Mab.
O yes. Eb trying to kill Lara came to my mind, too.
And I agree, it is cruel. But I think, Mab didn't mean to be cruel. For her this has purely practical reasons and in her opinion, Harry should get over his useless human feelings and do what is needed.
I think she puts him in a position inside the white court on purpose for several reasons. Some of them being access to the knowledge in the Raith library, being close to the court which was targeted by Nemesis to find out Outsider influences and what exactly Nemesid did there and why, and many more.
I like the idea of Harry and Lara enjoying some time together. I actually think Lara would be surprised and interested by the Field Museum. They could also visit some historical museum so Lara can relive a few of the days of old. It would be so novel for her, because I do not think any other man wanted to do with her. Of course, dinner and wine will still be required.
Again, I do not think Harry could ever love her, she is too much of a monster. And she is probably still angry about Thomas.
The Field Museum also came to my mind. And yes, there won't be love, but I can imagine it could become a partnership of convenience for common goals. Lara being involved in the Oblivion War and working with Harry against Outsiders. Also working with Harry to find Justine and safe the child (if it even exists, but if it does, I can imagine Lara taking care of her nephew or niece) and safe Thomas.
-
There still is the issue of "true love" to get around. Was what Harry and Murphy had true love? And if is was, is Harry still protected? I also don't think undoing that will be all that simple, though it sounds simple. I don't see it working out between Harry and Lara, yeah, there is attraction and they share a lot of points of view.. However there are some opposing view points between them that I think will just be a bridge too far for both of them. I really think this will be one of those rare times when Mab's chess moves might actually backfire on her because of the push back she will get not just from Harry but Lara as well.
-
There still is the issue of "true love" to get around. Was what Harry and Murphy had true love? And if is was, is Harry still protected? I also don't think undoing that will be all that simple, though it sounds simple. I don't see it working out between Harry and Lara, yeah, there is attraction and they share a lot of points of view.. However there are some opposing view points between them that I think will just be a bridge too far for both of them. I really think this will be one of those rare times when Mab's chess moves might actually backfire on her because of the push back she will get not just from Harry but Lara as well.
I agree in part.
I don't think, this will backfire at Mab, because she will have planned for all consequences. And no matter what will happen, she will win something of it.
And for the true love part:
I imagine a conversation between Lara and Mab.
Lara: "Your Knight is protected by the true love curse. The marriage cannot be consumated without him losing it. Please order him to do so."
Mab: "I don't care about your minor problem. I have granted your favor. If you are not content, so do something about it yourself. Or are you not as capable as I thought?"
And I think Harry will be highly motivated to find a way to deal with the Hunger demon. If not for himself, so for his child. Maggie will be in grave danger being too close to White Court Vampires in the future. And he has to somehow free Thomas without his Hunger consuming him.
I believe Harry will either invent a spell or an amulet or a potion to make the Hunger sleep. Or an amulet AND a potion. The amulet or spell for protection against the Hunger. For himself and Maggie. And the potion for the Whampire themselve. To make the demon sleep, as Lea did with the Red Court demons in Susan and Martin in Changes. Somehow it must be possible to do so.
This could be useful for the future.
We don't know yet, if Harry will loose the true love protection or not. But we know how it can be done: have sex with someone. And the other method is still just theory: the marriage vows.
But it is a strong theory supported by the short story "Something Borrowed" (correct title?) when Jenny Greenteeth tries to marry Will Borden. So the marriage vows are supposed to be a powerful magical binding.
And I do think, the true love protection is hard to get, but easy to loose.
-
... And there would have been a lot more dead minor practitioners except that Thomas ran interference ...
There actually were quite a few more dead practitioners; we know from Elaine & the word-of-mouth via the proto-Paranet that the "cull the minor practitioners" plan had been enacted in multiple cities before they brought it to Chicago, where Thomas twigged quickly (then left clues for Harry). We don't really know how many cities, how many dead; I presume more than we're told, because the Paranet was very "proto".
-
Got to disagree here. The hero marrying the daughter of the villain that killed his parent(s) is fairly common in fantasy. It's jarring here, because Lara is not a damsel to be rescued but a mature power in her own right that had an equal role in taking down said villain. The key being, we don't know if she'll reform to the hero's morals. She'd have to do quite a bit to earn redemption, but if she really did seek it, she could have 300+ years as Harry's wife if they both survive.
Eh...
the Demon being what it is, I have my doubts Lara could be redeemed without booting the Hunger. In which case she might live a good few years, but she'd need some supernatural boost to be 300+.
Something like becoming the next Winter Queen after Mab? The Knight is to some extent consort of the Queens of Faerie, too, which a wedding would fit quite adequately.
-
Eh...
the Demon being what it is, I have my doubts Lara could be redeemed without booting the Hunger. In which case she might live a good few years, but she'd need some supernatural boost to be 300+.
Something like becoming the next Winter Queen after Mab? The Knight is to some extent consort of the Queens of Faerie, too, which a wedding would fit quite adequately.
I have my own doubts about Lara being redeemed. It would take either a change in the nature of her personal Demon, say to feeding off Love rather than Lust and thus weakening the urge to kill. Or Harry could get a further power-up to say the level of a Forest Person where a feeding wouldn't be fatal. I'm just speculating though. Most likely Jim will keep Lara and Harry to a once twice per book interaction even if the wedding goes through and is consummated.
-
... Something like becoming the next Winter Queen after Mab? The Knight is to some extent consort of the Queens of Faerie, too, which a wedding would fit quite adequately.
This is a very-interesting notion.
I don't think Jim's going to write it this way; but it's very interesting!
The pieces hang together well-enough for me to now think it's likely that "replace Lara's Hunger-Demon with a Wintermantle" may very-well be part of Mab's planning (if only 2nd or 3rd tier contingency).
I've intentionally not specified the Queen-Mantle... Lara of course hardly qualifies as "virginal" but maybe the magic can admit of a "from now on" definition. It'd be incredibly-ironic for "Queen of the Sex Vampires" to become mythically-virginal! :o And we know (from the disastrous Carlos/Molly event) that Jim's very willing to torment other characters than Harry, with this sort of thing. And it'd give Molly an "out" from the Ladymantle, if Harry could find a way to initiate the transfer without killing the current owner...
Or, just do the "normal" Queen dies + Lady-becomes-Queen + Ladymantle-needs-host sequence, with the Winterknight's fiance close to hand. Ratchet the Molly/Harry tension another notch, I'm sure Jim would like it for that if nothing else.
Or just some direct Lara-gets-Queenmantle path. That might eliminate the "marriage" elements, though, if there's any incompatibilities between the mythic Winterlaw ideal of "marriage" and the Queen/Knight relationship. I think Jim's more-likely to write the complex one that loops-in Molly, ratchets-up tension, and tweaks Lara's twerk.
So, lots of elements come together very nicely indeed! I like your theory a lot, @Avernite!
-
There still is the issue of "true love" to get around. Was what Harry and Murphy had true love? And if is was, is Harry still protected?
He accidentally burned Lara when they brushed into skin contact while busting Thomas out of the cell. It definitely was true love. (Also, despite a distractingly painful burn, Lara figures out right away it must have been Karrin and seems genuinely approving for them to have found a healthy relationship. First time through, it reads like irony that the monster understands and reacts much more positively than Harry's supposed friends. Second reading ... yeah, I feel a bit dumb for not seeing that for the foreshadowing it was).
Uncertain if that protection survived Karrin's death, but I tend to think it would for as long as he's heavily occupied by mourning.
-
This is a very-interesting notion.
I don't think Jim's going to write it this way; but it's very interesting!
The pieces hang together well-enough for me to now think it's likely that "replace Lara's Hunger-Demon with a Wintermantle" may very-well be part of Mab's planning (if only 2nd or 3rd tier contingency).
I've intentionally not specified the Queen-Mantle... Lara of course hardly qualifies as "virginal" but maybe the magic can admit of a "from now on" definition. It'd be incredibly-ironic for "Queen of the Sex Vampires" to become mythically-virginal! :o And we know (from the disastrous Carlos/Molly event) that Jim's very willing to torment other characters than Harry, with this sort of thing. And it'd give Molly an "out" from the Ladymantle, if Harry could find a way to initiate the transfer without killing the current owner...
Or, just do the "normal" Queen dies + Lady-becomes-Queen + Ladymantle-needs-host sequence, with the Winterknight's fiance close to hand. Ratchet the Molly/Harry tension another notch, I'm sure Jim would like it for that if nothing else.
Or just some direct Lara-gets-Queenmantle path. That might eliminate the "marriage" elements, though, if there's any incompatibilities between the mythic Winterlaw ideal of "marriage" and the Queen/Knight relationship. I think Jim's more-likely to write the complex one that loops-in Molly, ratchets-up tension, and tweaks Lara's twerk.
So, lots of elements come together very nicely indeed! I like your theory a lot, @Avernite!
Thank you :)
For further 'support', I find Lara and Mab mostly have fairly similar outlooks. Low sentimentality except some 'defend our own', ruthless to the core, winner in a court of violent backstabbers... And both surprisingly good at understanding Harry Dresden (even if it feels for Mab it's partly 'characterization marches on' - she seemed much more alien in the early books).
-
Thank you :)
For further 'support', I find Lara and Mab mostly have fairly similar outlooks. Low sentimentality except some 'defend our own', ruthless to the core, winner in a court of violent backstabbers... And both surprisingly good at understanding Harry Dresden (even if it feels for Mab it's partly 'characterization marches on' - she seemed much more alien in the early books).
Agree about Mab's characterization. She was also much more cruel in Summer Knight. I think Jim decided to change his alignment from legal evil to legal neutral.
About Lara, I see her more as a Knight material than a Queen. She will be formidable at that.
-
Agree about Mab's characterization. She was also much more cruel in Summer Knight. I think Jim decided to change his alignment from legal evil to legal neutral.
Nearly freezing Harry's eyeballs in SmF was pretty cruel too.
I'm not sure if her characterization change was organically done on the fly, or a planned shift based on how the narrator is also changing.
-
There still is the issue of "true love" to get around.
Someone else already pointed out that Lara got burned when Harry touched her during the Thomas rescue mission, so I can dispense with that. What you seem to have missed is an answer that you came up with in an earlier post.
The one where you pointed out that Harry was good at manipulating others. I will add, even when Harry is consciously trying to manipulate another, he doesn’t necessarily have an end game or specific goal in mind. Also, there are times when Harry influences others, without intending or realizing he is doing so.
In Blood Rites, Harry overtly manipulated Lara into taking out Lord Raith by telling her he could hand her control of House Raith and show her just how weak her father really was. Harry wasn’t lying, but he implied that he would overthrow Lord Raith himself, not that he would only weaken him so Lara could finish the job. Harry had a specific goal he wanted, and that needed, to attain with this manipulation.
When Harry told Lash that she had changed and might have a life outside of returning to Lashiel, it wasn’t part of a plan to make her turn against Lashiel at a critical moment. Harry was mostly trying to fight back against Lash manipulating him. He was trying to keep Lash off of her game and it only morphed into a plan when Harry was out of other options.
Mab believed that Harry manipulated Molly into becoming his loyal vassal, when Harry was completely unaware that Molly was a magic user. Harry influenced Molly without realizing the effect he was having on her.
So, influence and possibly some manipulation without an end game in mind. Where might that lead? True love. Harry can’t plan on that happening. It is simply too remote and crazy to have that as a goal; plus, you can’t will yourself to love someone else.
Speaking of will, it seems to me that Harry is almost always in a contest of wills with Lara. That does requires some degree of manipulation on Harry’s part; largely for survival, but if Harry might be afraid of being in Lara’s company; being influenced by her, losing himself, I wonder if Lara might have her own worries about Harry. Even some fears Lara might not admit to herself. Lara might be compared to a tiger, but Harry is the guy who makes tiger traps.
Let me put this in simpler terms. Harry and Lara will be in each other’s company for a fair amount of time over the next year. They are already attracted to each other. There will be a lot of back and forth between the two. It seems a good bet that one hostile party or another might take a shot at removing Harry, Lara or both of them. That could be a perfect opportunity for both of them to be willing to lay down their life for one another. I don’t think Jim is going to do this, but it could happen.
Imagine how much fun this scenario could lead to. The marriage couldn’t be consummated. Harry would be frustrated, as usual. Lara would be terrified that she would look weak and be overthrown; and she would probably be correct, if it the rest of the White Court found out that she was in love with Harry, with her prey. Mab would wonder why Harry wasn’t becoming more pliable. Ebenezer and the rest of the White Council would now be certain that Harry was under control of the White Court. Yes, I know Justine found away around this, but do you think Harry would suggest it?
-
Lara knows how Thomas fed himself before Justine's "solution" in GS and since her security people had Thomas' apartment under constant surveillance, she would know about the solution. She'd know that 3rd parties are safe to feed from and is too practical to starve and weaken herself even if that would mean being unfaithful to Harry.
-
kurtin, I am surprised you did not mention Harry's worst manipulation, making Susan feed from Martin.
I think Harry will fight with all that he has to protect his protection :). For Murphy first and for himself later.
-
Imagine how much fun this scenario could lead to. The marriage couldn’t be consummated. Harry would be frustrated, as usual. Lara would be terrified that she would look weak and be overthrown; and she would probably be correct, if it the rest of the White Court found out that she was in love with Harry, with her prey. Mab would wonder why Harry wasn’t becoming more pliable. Ebenezer and the rest of the White Council would now be certain that Harry was under control of the White Court. Yes, I know Justine found away around this, but do you think Harry would suggest it?
Actually I don't think it will be that much fun, more like a variation on the same old tune, or maybe one too many sequels to the same movie.
Lara knows how Thomas fed himself before Justine's "solution" in GS and since her security people had Thomas' apartment under constant surveillance, she would know about the solution. She'd know that 3rd parties are safe to feed from and is too practical to starve and weaken herself even if that would mean being unfaithful to Harry.
Yup, and so do we.
The one where you pointed out that Harry was good at manipulating others. I will add, even when Harry is consciously trying to manipulate another, he doesn’t necessarily have an end game or specific goal in mind. Also, there are times when Harry influences others, without intending or realizing he is doing so.
I disagree, Harry usually does have a goal, to survive. At this point he has no agenda, why? Because at this point Harry doesn't have a clue as to what he is or who he is. Yeah, he knows a few things, he isn't totally clueless, but he doesn't know enough to have a game plan yet for an ultimate goal.
-
Also, I keep forgetting to answer the titular question, every time I come into this thread.
I keep getting side-tracked by all y'all's interesting ideas!
So, for the record:
Where do you go out on a date with the Queen of the sex vampires?
Are you @*%$!^ crazy???
I do not go out on a date with the Queen of the sex vampires!
-
Also, I keep forgetting to answer the titular question, every time I come into this thread.
I keep getting side-tracked by all y'all's interesting ideas!
So, for the record:
Are you @*%$!^ crazy???
I do not go out on a date with the Queen of the sex vampires!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
You are right, of course. But Harry has no option.
-
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
You are right, of course. But Harry has no option.
Yes, well.
You don't see me bargaining with Faerie Queens, either, do you?
::)
Harry's great secret -- not to be revealed until the last book of the BAT -- is that his True Name actually has five parts, not four:
Harry Copperfield Deathwish Blackstone Dresden
-
:D :D :D :D :D
You are so right.
-
Also, I keep forgetting to answer the titular question, every time I come into this thread.
I keep getting side-tracked by all y'all's interesting ideas!
Alright, we're all thinking it, I'll say it.
Harry takes Lara to dinner ... at Burger King. Diplomatic incident ensues.
-
Alright, we're all thinking it, I'll say it.
Harry takes Lara to dinner ... at Burger King. Diplomatic incident ensues.
Well of course he does!
White Queen... marrying a mere knight??!?
But at BK... Harry's the king, baby!
= = =
Of course, in payback Lara would take Harry to Alinea for their next date.
Michelin 3-star restaurant (one of only a dozen or so in the USA); #9 on the S.Pellegrino worldwide top-50; AAA 5-diamond; and multiple other prestigious honors.
And the cuisine? What style are they?
Heh.
Molecular Gastronomy
Can you imagine how uncomfortable Harry would be??!?
-
Well, some of the molecular gastronomy dishes are frozen in nitrogen, I can imagine the Winter Knight doing something with that.
Also, I imagine Harry being hungry and going for a burger as soon as they left the fancy place :)
-
Well, some of the molecular gastronomy dishes are frozen in nitrogen, I can imagine the Winter Knight doing something with that.
Also, I imagine Harry being hungry and going for a burger as soon as they left the fancy place :)
LOL! I agree, the worst thing he finds out about Lara is she is a strict vegetarian! :o
-
LOL! I agree, the worst thing he finds out about Lara is she is a strict vegetarian! :o
Eh ... somebody probably needs to point out to Harry that if you're planning for a lifespan in the centuries, you probably don't want your arteries clogged for the back 80% of that life expectancy.
-
Since we've seen just more examples of spry elderly wizards than not, I have to believe that the wizard healing factor stops all but the excesses.
-
Since we've seen just more examples of spry elderly wizards than not, I have to believe that the wizard healing factor stops all but the excesses.
Cholesterolfugo! :o All arteries clear! ;)
-
Cholesterolfugo! :o All arteries clear! ;)
Harry could make himself rich with that. He pretends to be a mystic healer or something like that. Lots of money and helping people too, so his moral sense can be at ease.
-
Alright, we're all thinking it, I'll say it.
Harry takes Lara to dinner ... at Burger King. Diplomatic incident ensues.
I actually wouldn't be shocked to find out that Lara is a regular at BK.
I imagine Harry and Lara at BK, and Harry is stunned to find out that she eats there often, knows the difference between a whopper and a big fish, and he's horrified to find one more thing about Lara that appeals...