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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Lord Kinbote on April 12, 2024, 09:17:58 PM
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Spoilery discussions, speculations, theorizing, etc. over Dresden's mother's life and death? Or who Dresden's maternal grandmother is? I've searched the DF Spoiler folders without luck. Thanks.
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Spoilery discussions, speculations, theorizing, etc. over Dresden's mother's life and death? Or who Dresden's maternal grandmother is? I've searched the DF Spoiler folders without luck. Thanks.
Margaret LaFey, aka Maggie Sr?
Yes, she has featured here & has been theorized-about a fair bit.
Her mother -- Ebenezer's wife(?) -- has IIRC been WoJ'ed as a full-mortal.
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Margaret LaFey, aka Maggie Sr?
Yes, she has featured here & has been theorized-about a fair bit.
Her mother -- Ebenezer's wife(?) -- has IIRC been WoJ'ed as a full-mortal.
Ebenezer's wife was a full mortal, without magic. IIRC, Jim's words were that she was a vanilla mortal.
Nowhere in that statement was anything that could be construed as saying that Ebenezer's wife was Magaret's mother. Anything else is presumption.
I was coming here to post this thought on Magaret.
Do we know that Margaret died from Lord Raith's entropy curse? What if she traded her life to Lea in her bargain for Lea to protect Harry? She could have still levelled her death curse at Lord Raith. And nobody outside the bargain would be the wiser.
Harry makes incorrect assumptions all the time. Why couldn't powerful supernaturals do the same? "I shot my entropy curse at her and she died. Ergo, I must have killed her."
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Do we know that Margaret died from Lord Raith's entropy curse? What if she traded her life to Lea in her bargain for Lea to protect Harry? She could have still levelled her death curse at Lord Raith. And nobody outside the bargain would be the wiser.
Harry makes incorrect assumptions all the time. Why couldn't powerful supernaturals do the same? "I shot my entropy curse at her and she died. Ergo, I must have killed her."
I kinda-sorta agree; but with a twist. Herewith, my WAG on that:
I think Margaret's bargain (which was struck before Harry was born) was to protect Harry (with some "interesting" loopholes, undoubtedly: these are faerie deals, after all!). I think that deal protected Margaret too, while Harry was in utero; but then "died in childbirth" was the hovering entropy-curse killing her the moment she had given birth.
I think Lea absolutely expected it to work out that way (WoJ is that when/if Harry learns what Lea did, he's gonna be enraged with her -- I expect this is one element of that).
I think Margaret LaFey was fae-savvy enough to expect the same: she got her "Darth Vader turns back to Anakin" moment in her relationship with Malcolm, but she knew her past would catch up with her and so didn't really expect to live much longer; and so she leveraged everything she could to make sure LukeHarry had the protection he'd need, in order to survive into adulthood.
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I expect something far more convoluted and dark. Say, Lea agreed to hide and protect Margaret from Lord Raith if she followed Lea's instructions (from Mab or the Queen Mothers) so that Margaret would give birth a starborn that Mab needed to beat the Outsiders. And Malcom's death was also caused/orchestrated so that Justin could eventually begin sharpening Harry into the weapon Mab needed.
Though I'm fuzzy about why McCoy didn't know about Harry, or maybe he was part of Project Breed a Starborn.
Lea is interesting. Lea is the most powerful member of the Winter Court after Mab. So more powerful than the Winter Lady, but not in the line of succession. Also, for every other high member of the Winter Court, there appears to be a counterpart in Summer. Except Lea, as far as revealed. Why no Summer counterpart? Is Lea truly something different/special hiding in plain sight?
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Lea is interesting. Lea is the most powerful member of the Winter Court after Mab. So more powerful than the Winter Lady, but not in the line of succession. Also, for every other high member of the Winter Court, there appears to be a counterpart in Summer. Except Lea, as far as revealed. Why no Summer counterpart? Is Lea truly something different/special hiding in plain sight?
There isn't an exact 1:1 in every role. For one thing, there's the position of Eldest of all the Fae species other than Sidhe for which the particular species follows one court or the other rather than being split. Eldest Gruff is probably the closest parallel to Lea that we've seen on page in Summer, being a powerful magic user and confidante of the Queen, but that's far from an exact parallel.
But a lot of Lea's personal power isn't from handmaiden of the queen being a mantle of Winter. It's power she's accumulated over the centuries by making deals with mortals like Maggie Sr that were skewed in her favour, slowly making her stronger and stronger. That significantly takes away from the obligation for Summer to have an exact balancing parallel.
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... That significantly takes away from the obligation for Summer to have an exact balancing parallel.
Does it, though?
I think "balance" is one of the critical elements upheld by both Courts.
Agreed that (a) Eldest Gruff seems to be the best candidate we have for "Summer counterpart to the Leanansidhe;" but also (b) we don't really know.
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Does it, though?
I think "balance" is one of the critical elements upheld by both Courts.
It's strict for the mantles. Less so elsewhere. Like I said in the earlier point, how do you exactly balance Eldest Malk or Eldest Fetch compared to the Eldest of some of the Summer-affiliated Fae subspecies? They have inherently different powers and roles in their nations.
I think the reason a little more flexibility is allowed other than in the mantled roles is that Winter just allocates its overall surplus to the Gates. Even if there isn't a 1:1 counterpart for every single role, they can maintain an aggregate balance with Summer by shuffling forces between Gate duty and the home guard. Letting Lea be strong enough to cover for her in shifts at the Gates is a big part of why Mab allows her to be as strong as she is.
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It's strict for the mantles. Less so elsewhere. Like I said in the earlier point, how do you exactly balance Eldest Malk or Eldest Fetch compared to the Eldest of some of the Summer-affiliated Fae subspecies? They have inherently different powers and roles in their nations.
I think the reason a little more flexibility is allowed other than in the mantled roles is that Winter just allocates its overall surplus to the Gates. Even if there isn't a 1:1 counterpart for every single role, they can maintain an aggregate balance with Summer by shuffling forces between Gate duty and the home guard. Letting Lea be strong enough to cover for her in shifts at the Gates is a big part of why Mab allows her to be as strong as she is.
So far the only "mantles" we know of in the Courts are the Queens, Ladies, Knights, and possibly the Mothers. All of whom, as far as we know began life as mortals. I assume the Mothers did as well, since they originally were Queens. I think in terms of "power" the mantles are equal, i.e Mab verses Titania in theory, but depending on the temperament of the holder is used differently and appear to be unbalanced at times, but they do in the end balance each other out.
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So far the only "mantles" we know of in the Courts are the Queens, Ladies, Knights, and possibly the Mothers. All of whom, as far as we know began life as mortals ...
Not so: the "Eldest" is a mantle for each sort -- Eldest Gruff, Eldest Fetch, etc.
Kringle is a winterfae mantle.
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Not so: the "Eldest" is a mantle for each sort -- Eldest Gruff, Eldest Fetch, etc.
Kringle is a winterfae mantle.
You're right, but I think they work differently from the four I mentioned. Is Kringle a mortal, or rather was he ever a mortal?
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I expect something far more convoluted and dark. Say, Lea agreed to hide and protect Margaret from Lord Raith if she followed Lea's instructions (from Mab or the Queen Mothers) so that Margaret would give birth a starborn that Mab needed to beat the Outsiders. And Malcom's death was also caused/orchestrated so that Justin could eventually begin sharpening Harry into the weapon Mab needed ...
Oh, I don't think they "ordered" Margaret around.... They lured her into doing what they wanted, making her think it was her own plan.
Margaret LeFey was extraordinarily adept with faerie ways, but Mab is just on another level... Mab manipulated Nic & Anduriel. Manipulating Maggie Sr. would be childs' play.
As to the rest... I'm inclined to agree. Justin was Mab's pick for Harry's inital tutelage with magic; Mab arranged Malcolm's death (likely at Lea's hand (or bed)) to begin a pattern of isolation & disaffection, and so Harry would be available when Justin came looking.
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... Is Kringle a mortal, or rather was he ever a mortal?
It's a Winterfae mantle.
I expect a powerful-enough mortal could wear it (tho AFAIK it's un-stated that one ever has (or has not)), but it's likely more-suited to a being with more-than-mortal willpower.
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Oh, I don't think they "ordered" Margaret around.... They lured her into doing what they wanted, making her think it was her own plan.
Margaret LeFey was extraordinarily adept with faerie ways, but Mab is just on another level... Mab manipulated Nic & Anduriel. Manipulating Maggie Sr. would be childs' play.
I'd be surprised if they lured Maggie, Sr. into that position unless you also consider Harry as having been lured into being Winter Knight. I think there's likely some symmetry here with Harry's experience, and Maggie, Sr. found herself in a position where her only option out was to bargain with Mab or Lea.
I also suspect that Thomas was Maggie, Sr.'s first attempt at a starborn, and a super-charged WC one at that, and that any bargain with the Fae pre-dated and required/resulted in Thomas' conception. That would explain her relationship with Lord Raith, to date an unexplained and fateful/fatal pairing, as well as why Maggie, Sr. and Raith fell out (WC is also all about family, and Raith couldn't have been happy when he found out that Maggie, Sr. had manipulated him for the benefit of the Fae and for his son), and maybe also why Mab has indicated that Thomas might be offered the WK mantle should Harry no longer be the WK.
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I'd be surprised if they lured Maggie, Sr. into that position unless you also consider Harry as having been lured into being Winter Knight. I think there's likely some symmetry here with Harry's experience, and Maggie, Sr. found herself in a position where her only option out was to bargain with Mab or Lea.
Yeah, I don't think they lured Margaret into it either. My belief is she knew or was aware of the White Council's desire for a controllable star born, I doubt given her attitude towards them that she wanted their protection and what strings they might have required of her. Yet she knew the need for one, after she met Malcolm and fell in love, she felt he had the needed qualities to father a star born who could be a leader in the coming BAT. She also knew he or she would be in danger and needed protection. She also knew that Mab was very interested in a star born, but one that she could control. I think Margaret felt that a child fathered by Malcolm would have the strength to cooperate with, but at the same time resist Mab's control. So she chose what was for her the lessor of two evils, protection of Winter over protection of the White Council, so she made her bargain.. In effect, like she found and exploited a chink in Lord Raith's armor when she threw her death curse, she found a loop hole in Fae bargaining, Mab may have thought she got what she wanted, but not really, as she has found out since Harry became her Knight.
I also suspect that Thomas was Maggie, Sr.'s first attempt at a starborn, and a super-charged WC one at that, and that any bargain with the Fae pre-dated and required/resulted in Thomas' conception. That would explain her relationship with Lord Raith, to date an unexplained and fateful/fatal pairing, as well as why Maggie, Sr. and Raith fell out (WC is also all about family, and Raith couldn't have been happy when he found out that Maggie, Sr. had manipulated him for the benefit of the Fae and for his son), and maybe also why Mab has indicated that Thomas might be offered the WK mantle should Harry no longer be the WK.
I don't think so, there is a recipe for conceiving a star born, Harry was conceived using the recipe, Thomas was not. That's confirmed by Lash in White Night that Margaret didn't decide to conceive a star child until she met and fell in love with Malcolm.
I expect a powerful-enough mortal could wear it (tho AFAIK it's un-stated that one ever has (or has not)), but it's likely more-suited to a being with more-than-mortal willpower.
So far the only mortal we've seen with that kind of will power is Harry, and he is a star born. Now the other star borns that we know of, i.e. Drakul and Listen may have that kind of will power, but they are not members of the Fae Courts as far as we know.
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That's confirmed by Lash in White Night that Margaret didn't decide to conceive a star child until she met and fell in love with Malcolm.
I don't recall Lash's discussion around the circumstances of Harry's birth being that detailed. Though even if it were, I don't consider Lash to be an honest narrator. I guess I'll just have to keep reading and hope there's a conclusion that I get to.
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I don't recall Lash's discussion around the circumstances of Harry's birth being that detailed. Though even if it were, I don't consider Lash to be an honest narrator. I guess I'll just have to keep reading and hope there's a conclusion that I get to.
She explains it in White Night page 363 hard back; bolding mine
"An Outsider," Lasciel said. "I have felt such a presence before. This attack is drawn directly from the mind of the Outsider." Gosh that was interesting. Not relevant, but interesting.
"It is relevant," Lasciel said, ""because of why you were born, Harry. Your mother found the strength to escape Lord Raith for a reason."
What the hell was she talking about?
Thud-thump:1:26.
"There was a complex confluence of events, of energies, of circumstances that would have given a child born under them the potential to wield power over Outsiders."
Actually Harry was dubious as well, but Lash's comeback was how does he explain defeating an Outsider at the age of 16? And not just any Outsider but He Who Walks Behind, one of their most powerful knights. Further confirmed by the hints that Margaret, herself gave Harry in his soul gaze with Thomas in Blood Rites, and his dream of his father at a campsite, I think that one was in Dead Beat. Both parents sort of apologize to Harry for their decision when they conceived him, putting such a burden on him. So yeah, in my opinion Lash was telling Harry the truth.
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... So far the only mortal we've seen with that kind of will power is Harry ...
Not even Harry (at least, not yet; not as of Changes).
The first time they met, Vadderung slammed Harry to the floor with raw willpower, no spell at all.
Harry tried to resist magically and was shocked to find no "spell" he could unravel, and a willpower so overwhelming that he was helpless.
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Not even Harry (at least, not yet; not as of Changes).
The first time they met, Vadderung slammed Harry to the floor with raw willpower, no spell at all.
Harry tried to resist magically and was shocked to find no "spell" he could unravel, and a willpower so overwhelming that he was helpless.
But Vadderung isn't human, he is the god Odin, ergo not a mortal.. Nor is he an Outsider...
Note what Lash told Harry again;
There was a complex confluence of events, of energies, of circumstances that would have given a child born under them the potential to wield power over Outsiders."
Wield power over Outsiders, not gods... Also will isn't just about physical power, it was Harry's mental will that resisted Lasciel's Shadow, not any physical power or magical power that he has. Also I guess one could argue that at the time Vadderung did that, though he is always talking about his will, at that time, and maybe even now Harry has no clue as to how strong he can be or will be.
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We know that mortals can wear Winterfae mantles, otherwise there'd be no queens. The willpower factor is just how much control over the mantle they can exert and how much humanity they retain.
Michael would be the best option for Kringle though.
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We know that mortals can wear Winterfae mantles, otherwise there'd be no queens. The willpower factor is just how much control over the mantle they can exert and how much humanity they retain.
Michael would be the best option for Kringle though.
We know they can wear the four, Mother,Queen,Lady, Knight, but it cannot be assumed without evidence that it is true for the other mantles.
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But Vadderung isn't human, he is the god Odin, ergo not a mortal.. Nor is he an Outsider...
You had alleged:
... So far the only mortal we've seen with that kind of will power is Harry ...
My point was that Harry hasn't shown us that kind of willpower (at least not yet), the kind necessary to don the Kringlemantle... ideally, without becoming subsumed in that identity!
Harry has shown us that in a will-vs-will contest he gets (literally) CRUSHED by the current (and only known) guy to wear the Kringlemantle.
Now... I do agree that Harry has depths he has yet to plumb; and that his power (and willpower) are growing(*).
I suspect that Harry couldn't (yet) handle the Kringlemantle... but might eventually be able to.
(*) I suspect Uriel and Mab have each been actively curating an ever-more-stringent suite of challenges with the aim of getting Harry BAT-ready; it is that Mab&Uriel action (as much as any "Black Council" and/or "Cowl" and/or "Nemesis" plans) which is responsible for Harry's "curated" Dresdenstagram(tm) lifestyle.
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Harry has shown us that in a will-vs-will contest he gets (literally) CRUSHED by the current (and only known) guy to wear the Kringlemantle.
Again, we are talking about someone not human, but a god.. Also his power is supposedly over Outsiders. Having the willpower doesn't mean he wins every time, but he has the will to put up a fight and resist. Also after the wild hunt Harry suggested that at some point he could kick Kringle's ass, and Kringle replied that he could try, and he might..
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Oh, I don't think they "ordered" Margaret around.... They lured her into doing what they wanted, making her think it was her own plan.
Margaret LeFey was extraordinarily adept with faerie ways, but Mab is just on another level... Mab manipulated Nic & Anduriel. Manipulating Maggie Sr. would be childs' play.
I actually rather suspect that Margaret was probably kind of easy to manipulate, if you once got to know her and got a sense of her ego. People with rebellious, 'you can't make me!' personalities are often easy to manipulate by people who are more realistic/adult/practical. You just make it seem like it's their idea and they're defying you. Con artists know that people who pride themselves on their own high intelligence are often esp. good marks. (Pride being the key word, not intelligence.)
Margaret herself told Harry (via her simulacrum in Blood Rites) that she had been 'so arrogant'.
That's confirmed by Lash in White Night that Margaret didn't decide to conceive a star child until she met and fell in love with Malcolm.
No, it isn't. Lash told Harry that it was not a coincidence that Margaret broke free when she did, or that he was born when and under the circumstances he was, but she never said that any of that planning was on Margaret's part. There are any number of higher or lower powers in the DV that might have been chessmastering.
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No, it isn't. Lash told Harry that it was not a coincidence that Margaret broke free when she did, or that he was born when and under the circumstances he was, but she never said that any of that planning was on Margaret's part. There are any number of higher or lower powers in the DV that might have been chessmastering.
She may not have been the mastermind, but neither was she a mere pawn on the chess board. As a chess board piece, she may have ranked as high as queen.. She had to ability to move in any direction on the board.. Move she did, and then was sacrificed.
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We know they can wear the four, Mother, Queen, Lady, Knight, but it cannot be assumed without evidence that it is true for the other mantles.
Since we know that some can be worn, it's safer to believe that others can be also. Unless you have evidence that states that these mantles are special. They very well could be, but in absence of the statement of a special case, then we should apply the general rule.
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Since we know that some can be worn, it's safer to believe that others can be also. Unless you have evidence that states that these mantles are special. They very well could be, but in absence of the statement of a special case, then we should apply the general rule.
Agreed; the Queenmantles are *incredibly* powerful, but can be worn by humans.
I don't think any of them (other than the Mothers) will be tougher to handle.
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Agreed; the Queenmantles are *incredibly* powerful, but can be worn by humans.
I don't think any of them (other than the Mothers) will be tougher to handle.
We don't know though, we know that the Knights of the Winter Court have a very hard time. Though that maybe a point of view.. It also isn't a picnic for the Ladies of ether Court, again depends on perspective I suppose.. Since we've had no new Queens, Mothers, or Others on page anyway, we don't know if they also have had problems adjusting to their new power or their power i.e. the mantle adjusting to them..
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We don't know though, we know that the Knights of the Winter Court have a very hard time. Though that maybe a point of view.. It also isn't a picnic for the Ladies of ether Court, again depends on perspective I suppose.. Since we've had no new Queens, Mothers, or Others on page anyway, we don't know if they also have had problems adjusting to their new power or their power i.e. the mantle adjusting to them..
Bob's testimony is that within (IIRC) 10ish years, the Winter Ladymantle will largely override the will of the bearer. "Welcome to the new Maeve, just like the old Maeve," he says.
I think we are seeing some signs that Molly is being more resilient than that... but only some signs (I cannot imagine pre-Mantle Molly exacting a price of any sort to do protective spellwork for Harry (as just one example)), with Winter Law remaining inviolable.
Agreed that the WK-mantle is "tough" on the Knights. But I think that's largely a matter of Winter being inherently harsh & brutal; I expect the SK-mantle gets its way more with gentle pressure, continuous sensuality, temptations of all sorts.
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She may not have been the mastermind, but neither was she a mere pawn on the chess board. As a chess board piece, she may have ranked as high as queen..
Maybe, but based on what her simulacrum said, and what others have said about her, I suspect she was at best a rook or a bishop, not a queen. Though I'm sure she thought she was a queen at one stage. :lol:
I'm fairly confident that at one time, Margaret absolutely would have considered herself to be a chessmistress, even as people like Lord Raith and Heaven only knows who else were pulling her strings and pushing her buttons.
IIRC, JB has said that one of Margaret's motives for getting entangled with LR in the first place was that she wanted some supersex. Which is not all that different from deliberately seeking out heroin or crack cocaine for the thrill, except that it's worse in that in this case the heroin is sapient and can plot against you. It's not the sort of self-destructive move that a genuine chessmaster would be likely to indulge.
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IIRC, JB has said that one of Margaret's motives for getting entangled with LR in the first place was that she wanted some supersex. Which is not all that different from deliberately seeking out heroin or crack cocaine for the thrill, except that it's worse in that in this case the heroin is sapient and can plot against you. It's not the sort of self-destructive move that a genuine chessmaster would be likely to indulge.
No, but if Margaret was one of the chess pieces she wouldn't be able to control those moves, would she. Now who do we know who really considers herself a true chess master, maybe even of three dimensional chess? Does the name, Mab, ring a bell? Mab is a great chess master but she isn't infallible and while she has made some great moves, and often is ahead in the game, sometimes she chooses the wrong pieces to make those moves. She may have seen or predicted that Margaret could bare a star child, but she picked the wrong piece to pair her with the first time around.
We know that Margaret was pretty screwed up when she took up with Lord Raith. She was angry, rebelling against her father and the White Council, seeking super sex with a WCV would be one way to express it. In steps the chess master, Mab, thinking four moves down the road, the breeding of a star child. Mab's huge weakness is she no longer understands human nature, in other words on paper the pairing looked great, in reality it sucked.
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I'm fairly confident that at one time, Margaret absolutely would have considered herself to be a chessmistress, even as people like Lord Raith and Heaven only knows who else were pulling her strings and pushing her buttons ...
I dunno, I think she saw herself more in the "loner" role, rebelling against the "system."
Not a player in the game, which would have made her part of the system.
Later, I think she came to the realization that she just didn't have enough power, a lone WCWizard, to make the changes she wanted... so she started making alliances, started "playing the game." Even then, I don't think she saw herself as a master-manipulator "chessmistress" sort of player.
Trying to become the mother of the Starbabe was, I think, her Big Move.
Ironically, the "main" effort (with Lord Raith + Arianna Ortega + likely others (so far AFAIK unnamed)) didn't work out; at least, I've been presuming the "Starbabe" plan was what Maggie was trying to recruit Ebenezer for, that fateful party where Arianna noticed Eb & Maggie "fighting like family."
But then she abandoned that plan & those allies, ran away, fell in love with Malcolm Dresden... and then had a Starbabe. I'm sure that part of her was cursing the ironies of Fate-or-whatever.
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... IIRC, JB has said that one of Margaret's motives for getting entangled with LR in the first place was that she wanted some supersex ...
My own memory is otherwise: it wasn't part of her motivation to start the affair, but supersex just kinda happens when you're involved with whampires.
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But then she abandoned that plan & those allies, ran away, fell in love with Malcolm Dresden... and then had a Starbabe. I'm sure that part of her was cursing the ironies of Fate-or-whatever.
I think you got that backwards, according to Eb in Blood Rites, and I believe what Lash says as well, somewhere Margaret met Malcolm, fell in love, then had the "courage" to leave Lord Raith.
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I think you got that backwards, according to Eb in Blood Rites, and I believe what Lash says as well, somewhere Margaret met Malcolm, fell in love, then had the "courage" to leave Lord Raith.
The dresdenfiles wiki -- which is not a guaranteed-correct resource, but AFAIK overwhelmingly more correct than not in simple matters of fact -- says Margaret left Papa Raith and met Malcolm sometime during the following year.
" ... When her son was about five, she escaped Lord Raith, abandoning Thomas to the mercy of his father, who had killed all his other sons. The next year[5], she met Malcolm Dresden."
The (moderately official, and usually very acurate) DF timeline says Maggie left Raith before she met Malcolm.
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The dresdenfiles wiki -- which is not a guaranteed-correct resource, but AFAIK overwhelmingly more correct than not in simple matters of fact -- says Margaret left Papa Raith and met Malcolm sometime during the following year.
" ... When her son was about five, she escaped Lord Raith, abandoning Thomas to the mercy of his father, who had killed all his other sons. The next year[5], she met Malcolm Dresden."
The (moderately official, and usually very acurate) DF timeline says Maggie left Raith before she met Malcolm.
I am going by what I remember reading in the books themselves. My memory can be faulty so I will recheck. If I am right, or if the writing gives that impression it becomes a matter of which do you believe?
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... or if the writing gives that impression it becomes a matter of which do you believe?
If the writing is ambiguous, then it clearly becomes a case of "believe whatever you prefer to believe," with a side of "please don't present preferences as if they were facts" and topped with speculation as to whether Jim just got sloppy there, in his unclarity... or if the ambiguity is intentional (either he wanted to obscure the truth, or he wanted to hold his options open for future storytelling uses, or etc).
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I think you got that backwards, according to Eb in Blood Rites, and I believe what Lash says as well, somewhere Margaret met Malcolm, fell in love, then had the "courage" to leave Lord Raith.
That's not how I recall what Eb said. My recollection is that Margaret managed to flee from LR, and while on the run (from the White Court, the White Council, and probably others) she met Malcolm and fell in love with him.
I don't see how falling for Malcolm before she escaped from Raith would even be likely to happen, I mean I'm not sure how it would come about.
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I dunno, I think she saw herself more in the "loner" role, rebelling against the "system."
Not a player in the game, which would have made her part of the system.
Later, I think she came to the realization that she just didn't have enough power, a lone WCWizard, to make the changes she wanted... so she started making alliances, started "playing the game." Even then, I don't think she saw herself as a master-manipulator "chessmistress" sort of player.
Trying to become the mother of the Starbabe was, I think, her Big Move.
Ironically, the "main" effort (with Lord Raith + Arianna Ortega + likely others (so far AFAIK unnamed)) didn't work out; at least, I've been presuming the "Starbabe" plan was what Maggie was trying to recruit Ebenezer for, that fateful party where Arianna noticed Eb & Maggie "fighting like family."
But then she abandoned that plan & those allies, ran away, fell in love with Malcolm Dresden... and then had a Starbabe. I'm sure that part of her was cursing the ironies of Fate-or-whatever.
I think we actually mostly agree. When I said that I think she thought she was a chessmistress, what I actually meant was that I think Margaret thought she was way smarter (in the Machiavellian sense of the word) than she actually was. I'm sure her IQ score was through the roof, but that's not necessarily the same thing as 'smart'. I think she thought she could outplay everybody, manipulate anyone she needed to and defy established power and get away with it, to a way greater degree than was actually the case.
My own memory is otherwise: it wasn't part of her motivation to start the affair, but supersex just kinda happens when you're involved with whampires.
Now that I think about it, that matches what Thomas told Harry, too (though Thomas too is going by what others have told him), i.e. that she got involved with LR and it turned personal.
But that still kind of comes to the same thing. It's still heroin, crack, crystal meth, fentanyl, all wrapped up in a handsome face. Even if she started out working with LR to further her own plans (whatever they were), it's still not a smart play to bed LR, not the move of a true mastermind.