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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: EBRIEN on May 22, 2021, 02:15:57 AM

Title: Harry and NAMES
Post by: EBRIEN on May 22, 2021, 02:15:57 AM
Anyone have thoughts of Harry naming beings and, thereby, having power/influence over them?

General Toot-Toot---He seems to be growing each time Harry sees him. (And he gets new title from Harry.)
Lasciel (Lash)--Harry doesn't give in to the coin and Lasciel's shadow becomes Lash.
Uriel (Uri--He was advised not to do that)
The Nickelheads (Denarians)
Octakongs (Fomor creatures--don't think this one qualifies, but...)

Anyway---Hope you are well. I do enjoy reading through all your thoughts and musings.

Cheers---Brien

Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: b4utoo on May 22, 2021, 02:31:00 AM
Wasn't this covered in another post?
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: EBRIEN on May 22, 2021, 03:50:45 AM
Possibly, but I can't find it.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: b4utoo on May 22, 2021, 03:56:54 AM
I'll look. Thought they had some good info
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: groinkick on May 22, 2021, 04:51:43 AM
Quote from: EBRIEN on May 22, 2021, 02:15:57 AM
Anyone have thoughts of Harry naming beings and, thereby, having power/influence over them?

General Toot-Toot---He seems to be growing each time Harry sees him. (And he gets new title from Harry.)
Lasciel (Lash)--Harry doesn't give in to the coin and Lasciel's shadow becomes Lash.
Uriel (Uri--He was advised not to do that)
The Nickelheads (Denarians)
Octakongs (Fomor creatures--don't think this one qualifies, but...)

Anyway---Hope you are well. I do enjoy reading through all your thoughts and musings.

Cheers---Brien

Also for the record it goes both ways according to Jim.  It's a direct line to one another, so creating it isn't without some risk.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Mira on May 22, 2021, 12:32:51 PM
Quote from: groinkick on May 22, 2021, 04:51:43 AM
Also for the record it goes both ways according to Jim.  It's a direct line to one another, so creating it isn't without some risk.

Yup, and there are a few folks calling Harry names, so far it has been limited, HWWB called him, "Child of the Stars," there might have been others, cannot remember at the moment, but watch out if someone starts calling him, "Destroyer" on a regular basis...
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Arjan on May 22, 2021, 01:03:02 PM
Not everything is a name. Nicknames and descriptions do not count.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Mira on May 22, 2021, 03:18:30 PM
Quote from: Arjan on May 22, 2021, 01:03:02 PM
Not everything is a name. Nicknames and descriptions do not count.

Don't they?  "Lash," was merely a nick name, and we saw what happened... Now was it or was it not because Harry gave her a nickname?  Uriel objected to the nickname, "Uri," because of it's meaning, but Harry merely saw it as a nickname, and called him that without thinking. When Uriel called him on it, he did change it to "Mr Sunshine, but yes, apparently nicknames can and do count.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Arjan on May 22, 2021, 04:27:56 PM
But with the fae it is quite normal to call them with something that is not their real name. Toot and Lacuna are not their real names and the erlking is a title.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: b4utoo on May 22, 2021, 04:46:45 PM
I guess it depends on how involved that nickname is and how much it's used and how much is reference and how much people believe in that nickname
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Mira on May 22, 2021, 05:10:24 PM
Quote from: Arjan on May 22, 2021, 04:27:56 PM
But with the fae it is quite normal to call them with something that is not their real name. Toot and Lacuna are not their real names and the erlking is a title.

That may be, but then again Toot has changed, hasn't he.  I don't think Lacuna has a nickname as of yet.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Arjan on May 22, 2021, 05:14:13 PM
Quote from: Mira on May 22, 2021, 05:10:24 PM
That may be, but then again Toot has changed, hasn't he.  I don't think Lacuna has a nickname as of yet.
It definitely is not her real name:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Mira on May 22, 2021, 05:23:43 PM
Quote from: Arjan on May 22, 2021, 05:14:13 PM
It definitely is not her real name:

(click to show/hide)

What we are talking about are the beings that Harry has given a nickname to.  In the case of Lacuna, someone else gave her that name, remains to be seen if that had changed her in the past.  It could be her real name is say, Whoopie and she started out loving pizza just like Toot.. But with the nickname, she became a health nut..  Harry hasn't given her a nickname.. It would be interesting if it turns out that it was Elaine, when she was hiding out in the Summer Court that gave Lacuna the name she now answers to.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Arjan on May 22, 2021, 05:50:45 PM
It is in the core of her being. She wants everyone to have healthy teeth.

We see it with toot as well. Everyone can hear him saying toot but when he summons toot he keeps his real name secret.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: groinkick on May 22, 2021, 06:42:25 PM
Quote from: Arjan on May 22, 2021, 01:03:02 PM
Not everything is a name. Nicknames and descriptions do not count.

Uriel would disagree...  He didn't care for Harry's Nickname
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Mira on May 22, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: groinkick on May 22, 2021, 06:42:25 PM
Uriel would disagree...  He didn't care for Harry's Nickname

Exactly, and when Harry summoned Toot in the beginning, he didn't even know he and his friends were potty for pizza.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Ed0517 on May 24, 2021, 02:50:46 AM
Quote from: groinkick on May 22, 2021, 06:42:25 PM
Uriel would disagree...  He didn't care for Harry's Nickname

Uriel saw that one as an insult. -el is from God. Note the angels names end in it? Gabriel, Michael, Raphiel, Uriel...  Harry left God out.  Not good with an angel

(note Siegel and Shuster stole from this tradition with Kal-El - aka Superman)

I'd point out Uriel is OK with Mr. Sunshine. he apparently even relayed it to Odin, at one of their lunches, because Odin mentioned it as the pre-battle meeting at Marcone's castle.

I thought Toot got bigger with responsibilities and followers....the more he does, the more power he seems to absorb.

Lash... I think it was because she basically lived with Harry a couple of years. Maybe... fell in love?  Part of why she sacrificed herself? Is Bonea Lasciel's child in a sense.. or Lash's? that one time, after the Deeps... when we thought she was gone gone. And Harry played guitar... and she said "Anything I can, my host..." or the like... I wonder - could she be just heavily damaged, in a damaged part of Harry's brain? Vanilla humans do not heal brain tissue... or spinal tissue in most cases, but it was said Harry might have been able to heal his back, though it could take years.... but I think there was a WOJ she is gone.

Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: ZhonLord on June 07, 2021, 08:23:12 PM
Quote from: b4utoo on May 22, 2021, 02:31:00 AM
Wasn't this covered in another post?

Quote from: EBRIEN on May 22, 2021, 03:50:45 AM
Possibly, but I can't find it.

"Naming things can be dangerous", last post was February.
https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,54083.0.html
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Feral Plum on June 08, 2021, 08:46:02 AM
Speaking of equal and opposite reactions....
Harry doesn't have a nickname. His name is what he is called. Harry isn't even a diminutive.

Except for Toot Toot. Has the name Pizza Lord changed Harry?
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: K.L.O.E. on June 08, 2021, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: Feral Plum on June 08, 2021, 08:46:02 AM
Speaking of equal and opposite reactions....
Harry doesn't have a nickname. His name is what he is called. Harry isn't even a diminutive.

Except for Toot Toot. Has the name Pizza Lord changed Harry?

Someone made a WAG the other day that Harry was ascending into the ranks of the Fae Courts accidentally because he created the Mantle of the Za Lord - ruler of the little folk and that's actually how he becomes immortal. Also after his last stunt of calling all the Little Folk in Chicago I expect Toot Toot will be almost toddler size by the time we see him next.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Mira on June 08, 2021, 02:31:56 PM
Quote from: K.L.O.E. on June 08, 2021, 12:55:47 PM
Someone made a WAG the other day that Harry was ascending into the ranks of the Fae Courts accidentally because he created the Mantle of the Za Lord - ruler of the little folk and that's actually how he becomes immortal. Also after his last stunt of calling all the Little Folk in Chicago I expect Toot Toot will be almost toddler size by the time we see him next.

Yes, and I think it is this is what is freaking out the White Council.  Those who were present were alarmed that Harry could call forth the Little Folk to battle the flying squid things, that they obeyed and were effective.  Nobody, not even the Merlin on the White Council has a private army at their command.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: K.L.O.E. on June 08, 2021, 06:14:28 PM
Quote from: Mira on June 08, 2021, 02:31:56 PM
Yes, and I think it is this is what is freaking out the White Council.  Those who were present were alarmed that Harry could call forth the Little Folk to battle the flying squid things, that they obeyed and were effective.  Nobody, not even the Merlin on the White Council has a private army at their command.

The going theory is that Martha is the Saint on the Council right? If that's the case the Little Folk having faith in Harry would definitely freak her out as she's already familiar with what Faith Magic can do. (Side note: do they know Harry has Soulfire?)
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Mira on June 08, 2021, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: K.L.O.E. on June 08, 2021, 06:14:28 PM
The going theory is that Martha is the Saint on the Council right? If that's the case the Little Folk having faith in Harry would definitely freak her out as she's already familiar with what Faith Magic can do. (Side note: do they know Harry has Soulfire?)

I doubt that they know about the Soulfire,  I doubt that they even know he had contact with a coin at one time or had a Shadow of one of the Fallen dancing in his head.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: Yuillegan on June 09, 2021, 02:58:26 AM
Quote from: K.L.O.E. on June 08, 2021, 06:14:28 PM
The going theory is that Martha is the Saint on the Council right? If that's the case the Little Folk having faith in Harry would definitely freak her out as she's already familiar with what Faith Magic can do. (Side note: do they know Harry has Soulfire?)
Is there a going theory? I would love to hear it! I haven't seen it out and about. I don't believe they do know that Harry has soulfire.


Back to the OP -

Names have power. They define things, they shape them, to some degree they create them. I think mortals in the Dresdenverse have particular power due to their Free Will. They can choose how things will go. So these powerful beings that they interact with, summon, banish, etc are defined by the mortals. Which gives mortals a HUGE edge. Mortals can change supernatural beings, define their limits, set their identities, shape their destinies. In that sense, whose really the god?

I don't think Harry is necessarily more powerful when naming things than anyone else. I think he just exercises that ability more and because of who he is and who he interacts with, we see the results.
Title: Re: Harry and NAMES
Post by: TheCuriousFan on June 09, 2021, 06:50:14 AM
Quote from: K.L.O.E. on June 08, 2021, 12:55:47 PM
Someone made a WAG the other day that Harry was ascending into the ranks of the Fae Courts accidentally because he created the Mantle of the Za Lord - ruler of the little folk and that's actually how he becomes immortal. Also after his last stunt of calling all the Little Folk in Chicago I expect Toot Toot will be almost toddler size by the time we see him next.
I mean Toot is already 3 feet tall, he'll be somewhere between kid and teenager next time he appears.