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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on April 29, 2021, 05:35:19 AM
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All the way back in Fool Moon, Harry talked about a specific type of magic circle. One that is very difficult to do properly, but used to contain something huge like an Archangel. Do you think this could be foreshadowing at all? This Circle was mentioned once, and used improperly resulting in a woman's death. Harry blamed himself. Still it makes me wonder if it will eventually be used for someone......
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I figure it's more a worldbuilding detail left over from before he decided to make anything angel-related one step short of omnipotent.
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All the way back in Fool Moon, Harry talked about a specific type of magic circle. One that is very difficult to do properly, but used to contain something huge like an Archangel. Do you think this could be foreshadowing at all? This Circle was mentioned once, and used improperly resulting in a woman's death. Harry blamed himself. Still it makes me wonder if it will eventually be used for someone......
On the other Hand, when Harry calls up Uriel in Changes, he says something like "I mean, that's a nice Circle there Harry, but you don't actually think it'd do anything, right?" (Of course, that was just a mental circle, but still).
I certainly hope that Jim doesn't have something like an Archangel just get trapped in a circle like some common Pixie, that'd be pretty lame.
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I figure it's more a worldbuilding detail left over from before he decided to make anything angel-related one step short of omnipotent.
But maybe that is just what he thinks because that is his story :-)
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I've wondered, but Fool Moon Harry was basically a moron. Even in Summer Knight he thought the Queens were throwing around power that could rival the archangels to create the battlefield in the sky ... he had no idea what he was on about, at that point. It's a justifiable error when archangels basically don't use their power hardly ever, but I don't think he'd say that after meeting Mr Sunshine.
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I've wondered, but Fool Moon Harry was basically a moron. Even in Summer Knight he thought the Queens were throwing around power that could rival the archangels to create the battlefield in the sky ... he had no idea what he was on about, at that point. It's a justifiable error when archangels basically don't use their power hardly ever, but I don't think he'd say that after meeting Mr Sunshine.
Uriel did not use his power after they met either.
But it was not Harry, it was Lea and she knows much more than Harry and can not lie:
"Of course," Lea said. "They exist in opposition. Each wields vast power, wizard—power to rival the archangels and lesser gods. But they cancel one another flawlessly. And in the end, the board will be evenly divided. The lesser pieces will emerge and do battle to decide the balance."
But this was Summer Knight about Mab and Titania. And maybe not all archangels are equally powerful.
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I figure it's more a worldbuilding detail left over from before he decided to make anything angel-related one step short of omnipotent.
I don't think it's left over. It includes one very important detail and let's you know that detail applies to a certain tier of being. More importantly, it lets us know that such beings exist. Those that are so blended on both spectrums they can have nigh inconceivable power,(and immortality?)but also be mortal enough to effect Fate itself. It has many nuances to it. Though I think the most direct reason it is put there is, it's the goal of the walkers and, it's what starborn have the potential to become. Something that straddles the line on both sides.
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Archangel, or fallen angel?
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Archangel, or fallen angel?
could be!
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30 coins, one circle, buried under Harry's floor. He already tried with just 1!
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Of course, if it were capable of holding an archangel, why couldn't it hold Mother Winter?
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Uriel clearly meant that no magic circle was going to hold him if he didn't want to be held. At least not one that Harry could make at that time. Now these days, with Alfred's help, could he bind Uriel and stick him in a cell on Demonreach? With the power of the Spear as well? He might.. Same thing goes for Mother Winter, he did manage to bind a titian didn't he?
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Plus, he gave Mab a gut check by threatening to imprison her, and she blinked.
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Plus, he gave Mab a gut check by threatening to imprison her, and she blinked.
Mab was on the island at that time.
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CAN
NOT
BIND
URIEL
SHHHHHHH...
You only could take advantage of his limits
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CAN
NOT
BIND
URIEL
SHHHHHHH...
You only could take advantage of his limits
"Please, Dresden," the archangel Uriel said. "It's a very nice circle, but you can't honestly think that it's any kind of obstacle to me."
This quote only says that that circle was not enough. It is entirely possible that no circle is good enough. It is also possible that it is theoretically possible but no mortal wizard is powerful enough. Or maybe it is possible. It would not be wise but that is another thing.
You can make your theories but unless you ask Jim and he answers there is no way to be sure.
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Except Uriel's tone to me sounded amused, a tone one would take with a child.
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Except Uriel's tone to me sounded amused, a tone one would take with a child.
Of course he sounded amused. It was a really nice circle but I don’t think it could have hold Mab either. It was just in his mind.
And it was totally unnecessary as well. It was just because Harry felt a summoning needed a circle. Pretty amusing.
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Of course he sounded amused. It was a really nice circle but I don’t think it could have hold Mab either. It was just in his mind.
And it was totally unnecessary as well. It was just because Harry felt a summoning needed a circle. Pretty amusing.
Not so sure it wouldn't have held Mab, didn't it hold the Er-King? Forgive the spelling, remember the name, not the spelling.. Part of the amusement is about faith, I suppose. A person of faith wouldn't feel they'd need a summoning circle to summon an archangel. One of the lessons Uriel wanted him to learn in the next book on his spirit walk about.
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Not so sure it wouldn't have held Mab, didn't it hold the Er-King? Forgive the spelling, remember the name, not the spelling.. Part of the amusement is about faith, I suppose. A person of faith wouldn't feel they'd need a summoning circle to summon an archangel. One of the lessons Uriel wanted him to learn in the next book on his spirit walk about.
With the earl king Harry had a circle drawn. A real circle.
With Uriel Harry was not able to draw a thing. It was a circle drawn completely in his mind, Without any visual aid. It was a tour the force and Uriel admired it but if the erlking had run amok in such a circle it would have been enormously difficult to keep concentration on everything.
Harry had to keep the circle in his mind and do everything else.
The circle is also a matter of trust. Harry does not use a circle to summon Toot anymore.
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With the earl king Harry had a circle drawn. A real circle.
With Uriel Harry was not able to draw a thing. It was a circle drawn completely in his mind, Without any visual aid. It was a tour the force and Uriel admired it but if the erlking had run amok in such a circle it would have been enormously difficult to keep concentration on everything.
Harry had to keep the circle in his mind and do everything else.
The circle is also a matter of trust. Harry does not use a circle to summon Toot anymore.
Maybe he should? I don't think he every drew much of a circle for Toot. Yes, he drew a real circle for the Earl King, but the question remains, even if he had drawn a real circle, would it have contained Uriel? I doubt it.
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Maybe he should? I don't think he every drew much of a circle for Toot. Yes, he drew a real circle for the Earl King, but the question remains, even if he had drawn a real circle, would it have contained Uriel? I doubt it.
Uriel is seriously powerful but very restricted. Trying to contain him in a circle might give him some freedom to react though.
But the question remains is that simply because Uriel is too powerful for Harry to hold or is it impossibly because of some other reason to do with Uriel’s nature.
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Uriel exists in all dimensions, the ONE Uriel. I think it'd be child's play to abandon this dimension, pop to another, walk a few yards and pop back.
Mab exists in all dimensions too. But it's not the same Mab.
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Uriel exists in all dimensions, the ONE Uriel. I think it'd be child's play to abandon this dimension, pop to another, walk a few yards and pop back.
Mab exists in all dimensions too. But it's not the same Mab.
That complicates things but we don’t know how it exists in all dimensions and even if it is all of him that is in the circle. Maybe you trap some but not all that is Uriel.
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That complicates things but we don’t know how it exists in all dimensions and even if it is all of him that is in the circle. Maybe you trap some but not all that is Uriel.
Sort of what the going fan theory is when you catch Arceus in Pokemon. You can't actually put a literal GOD in a Pokeball, but what you can do is put a local manifestation in there, sort of a shadow of the real thing that it can reabsorb later on. I'd imagine that's what would happen if you were to try and put Uriel or one of the Mother's in a Circle.