Lara is also aware that when the masquerade drops, there will be mortals queuing up to be ‘eaten’ by Lara and her kin, her brand of evil will flourish whilst others will wither, and yes the ‘bigger’ monsters will make her seem small and relatively harmless in comparison. She just needs to tidy up those of the White Court like Madrigal and Madeleine who lack judgement and control, and she has been doing this.
If the White Court only ‘eats’ those who are competent and give their consent, and Lara were to create a reality TV show “Real Vampires of Chicago” with her and her sisters, it will be a ratings success and an inexhaustible food supply.
Lara is also aware that when the masquerade drops, there will be mortals queuing up to be ‘eaten’ by Lara and her kin, her brand of evil will flourish whilst others will wither, and yes the ‘bigger’ monsters will make her seem small and relatively harmless in comparison. She just needs to tidy up those of the White Court like Madrigal and Madeleine who lack judgement and control, and she has been doing this.It was actually the White Court who published Dracula. It wouldn't surprise me though if they had also helped publish Twilight(although I agree that it totally more evil...damn Stephanie Meyer for trying to ruin vampires). FY I what the White Council helped publish was the Necronomicon in order to dilute the power of the rituals within.
If the White Court only ‘eats’ those who are competent and give their consent, and Lara were to create a reality TV show “Real Vampires of Chicago” with her and her sisters, it will be a ratings success and an inexhaustible food supply.
The White Council published Dracula to destroy the Black Court, the White Court did something probably more evil, they were responsible for the Twilight Saga to soften the mortal world up for the masquerade dropping.
The rest of the Accorded Nations would help protect the White Court from attack
Lara, unlike her father sees use in humans above and beyond food. She started hiring competent rather than pretty people, Riley a case in point and is far less prejudiced than most of her Court towards humans.
Oh Lara's absolutely evil. She doesn't actually value human life at all, for example.
But as the conflict moves toward the BAT (vs individual supernatural crimes in the first books) her self-interest basically aligns with the 'good guys' at least to the degree of preserving civilization.
If Lara tries to make the WC "less evil" it would only be to the degree necessary for them to be accepted in a world where the supernatural is known... I would say 'less blatantly evil' or 'more controlled' instead.
Oh Lara's absolutely evil. She doesn't actually value human life at all, for example.
I recall a WOJ that explains her character pretty thoroughly. She occasionally looks at some of the protagonists and considers being not evil for a while, then thinks "Ugh, who has time for that?".
Though it will be interesting to see whether the spot at the end of PT where she contemplates that Harry might be motivated by genuine altruism and regards him as an incomprehensible puzzle leads to any actual character development.
After re-reading Jury Duty, it occurs to me that one of the stronger candidates for using the FBI to hound Dresden is the White Court.
Now, that would suggest it is Lara - but not necessarily. There has been division in every major supernatural organisation.
Papa Raith seemed evil to me. He enjoyed the suffering of others in and of itself.The questions are:
Lara seems amoral. She eats people, yeah, but it's not like she has a choice other than her own death. If an predator eats someone, I don't blame it.
“Does she know the difference between good and evil?“
She does but she does not have the time for it. That is a weak excuse.
And the next question is not “Can she be good?” Because that is a higher bar than necessary. A sufficient question is “Can she be less evil”
And the answer is yes, she can.
I think she does know the difference between good and evil, the only problem is her point of viewIn real life good and evil are relative dependent on the culture of group you belong to and ultimately based on the human herd instinct. What is good for the group is good. That is why in war the enemy is dehumanized, placed outside the group and that is why vegetarians emphasize the relatedness of humans and animals. We are all animals. People who eat animals usually make a bigger distinction between humans and animals.
is very different. She will on occasion feed upon her victims until death, we call it murder, evil, however she sees it no different than a lion killing and eating it's prey, good. She does try to keep that in check because she understand the problems politically etc it brings her.
She has the time for it when it is to her advantage as when she has allied with Harry for the greater good, which is also to her advantage.
The answer is no, in my opinion because her view point is so different from our own.
But in the Dresdenverse good and evil are not relative. Black and white does exist. And we do have a standard and Michael described evil ultimately as when you stopped caring.But we also have Shiro telling Harry, I think in his letter, that Harry has a harder path because he lives in the grey.
But we also have Shiro telling Harry, I think in his letter, that Harry has a harder path because he lives in the grey.He walks in a world full of grays but black and white do exist. It is just harder to find your way.
But we also have Shiro telling Harry, I think in his letter, that Harry has a harder path because he lives in the grey.He is telling Harry that because as a Knight of the Cross, the light, it is pretty clear cut, who they are fighting and why. The Knights of the Cross's foes are the holders of the coins of the Fallen, the dark.. Where in Harry's world things aren't so clear cut. He loves Thomas as his brother. Thomas has saved his life and has done a lot of good, but he has caused a lot of pain also, hence his screams in his cell as he feels the pain he has inflicted on others. I think Marcone is a better case for the subject of shades of grey, on many levels he is a bad man, but there is that corner of him that feels guilt over what happened to that little girl. He is the one at the moment who is trying to rally everyone together to save the city, yet once saved, if he survives, he will go back to ruling his underworld of corruption.
In real life we would probably still see them as human because biologically they are. We would lock them up as multiple rapists and killers and then at some point their hunger would eat them. Or we would lock them up as not accountable but dangerous In special institutions and then at some point the hunger would eat them.
He is telling Harry that because as a Knight of the Cross, the light, it is pretty clear cut, who they are fighting and why. The Knights of the Cross's foes are the holders of the coins of the Fallen, the dark.. Where in Harry's world things aren't so clear cut. He loves Thomas as his brother. Thomas has saved his life and has done a lot of good, but he has caused a lot of pain also, hence his screams in his cell as he feels the pain he has inflicted on others. I think Marcone is a better case for the subject of shades of grey, on many levels he is a bad man, but there is that corner of him that feels guilt over what happened to that little girl. He is the one at the moment who is trying to rally everyone together to save the city, yet once saved, if he survives, he will go back to ruling his underworld of corruption.Working with a lesser evil can be necessary in real life but the distinction between good and evil in the dresdenverse is a rather principled thing. Marcone is evil. That shouldn’t stop Harry from working with him for the greater good but he is still evil.
But they do not see themselves as evil,So what? Very few evil people see themselves as evil.
they do what they do to survive, it's their nature. Would you call a cat evil because it kills and sometimes eats beautiful birds?White court vampires are intelligent. They and react to sticks and carrots. They are either creatures that can behave themselves and can be punished for breaking laws or they are dangerous creatures that have to be controlled. Cure, punish or destroy, that would be the question.
The morality of Lara was not part of his motivation, he knows Lara is evil but her father was the evil that at that moment was killing his brother and he had killed his mother. Lara was the evil he could work with and as Lara discovered the evil he could manipulate to be his cats pawn.
Which is the grey area.. Marcone is evil, but he does things that are not always evil, he has grey areas that can be worked with, same applies to Lara. And no, remember the end of Turn Coat at the Zoo the conversation Harry was having with Thomas about humans as food/prey/kine? They don't see that behavior as evil, anymore than a lion does. However they understand that the rest of us do see it as evil so they moderate their behavior to survive.There is good evidence that not even Nicodemus sees his own behavior as evil, Deirdre certainly did not. It doesn’t matter. They are evil.
There is good evidence that not even Nicodemus sees his own behavior as evil, Deirdre certainly did not. It doesn’t matter. They are evil.
How they deluded themselves does not stop them being evil in the dresdenverse.
So what? Very few evil people see themselves as evil.
Cure, punish or destroy, that would be the question.
Not let them kill humans because they can not help it.
If the masquerade falls entirely, it's gonna be a bad day for Malvora (who usually kill) and Skavis (who must).They have to rape. And they have to kill a human to become one.
Raith doesn't have to kill though. Even at his lowest and most inhuman point, Thomas was saying it's unnecessary, and wanted to promote "more responsible" nonlethal feeding from within the House political system. They can easily survive on "small bites" spread out enough not to do irrecoverable harm to anyone, and going public would leave them even less short of willing partners.
Um, no, they don't. Thomas survived as a hairdresser, taking small bites of energy as he styled his clients' hair, and they weren't harmed by it. (In fact, they enjoyed it. So it's not too absurd to think that people would volunteer for such an experience, if it was ensured that they wouldn't die in the process.)Only under very special circumstances that are not easily repeatable.
And it's been established that White vamps are born with their demon, and their first feeding doesn't have to be lethal. (Although if Irwin Pounder hadn't been the scion of a Bigfoot, he might not have survived his encounter with Connie, so that may be an exception.) If a young White vamp's first sexual experience is based in True Love, there's a chance their demon will die, and they become human, as Inara Raith hopefully did. It's the Reds who must kill to become a fully-fledged vampire, not the Whites.
The exceptions are simply not apliccable on a large enough scale but they do point to the white court being evil.
Suddenly he looked less like a human being and more like something carved out of marble. Angry, angry marble. I felt my shoulders tense up in the presence of a creature I knew was genuinely dangerous.
And they eat your life. Literally. That is a terrifying concept.
There
wouldn't be anything physical, would there?
They have to rape.That doesn't fit Thomas. They have alternatives.
And they eat your life. Literally. That is a terrifying concept.Eh.
That doesn't fit Thomas. They have alternatives.Realistically? Only Thomas did it and he could not keep to it either.
Eh.And that is addictive. Extremely addictive. Which is evil in itself.
I am a blood donor. People live by draining my life. Are they evil? No, because I give it willingly and recover well enough. And on some level I give because it makes me feel good.
Raith is evil because it takes from the unwilling, and kills. Not because it leeches bits of others' life to live, and in the process can make the other briefly happy.
Realistically? Only Thomas did it and he could not keep to it either.Are you saying Thomas is raping Justine, the girls she brings over, and the svartalves?
Are you saying Thomas is raping Justine, the girls she brings over, and the svartalves?It was not jest Justine.
It was not jest Justine.I did mention those girls. Assuming the girls don't know about the addiction and Justine brings the same girls repeatedly, that doesn't take away from my point that Justine isn't subject to the addiction because she has True Love protection and I seriously doubt the svartalves are subject to Thomas's wamp mind control. Thomas has repeatedly proved that wamps don't have to rape to feed.
Justine was managing his diet at some point, she could influence his mood by choosing the right girls. Being fed upon by the white court is addictive. We hé attraction to Thomas is not natural. The lust is artificial forced upon the victim and that is rape.
I don’t think he can help it, the feeding is addictive. The attraction felt by his victims is like a drug. That makes it rape in my book. Not as bad as most Raiths I know but even the mildest form has problems.