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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: ClintACK on July 18, 2020, 05:01:05 PM
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So... it's probably nothing, but reading about Ethniu's dad, Balor, on Wikipedia, I came across a character named Mac Kineely.
The story is that Balor stole Mac's magic cow of plenty. There was a prophecy that Mac couldn't get the cow back while Balor was alive, but that Balor could only be killed by his grandson. In order to fulfill the prophecy and get his magic cow back, Mac is transported by one of the fairy folk to the tower where Balor was keeping his daughter sequestered (to prevent a grandchild and the fulfillment of the prophecy). Mac seduces the daughter and gets her pregnant. The grandson kills Balor and Mac gets his cow back.
The daughter's name: Ethniu.
Could Mac Kineely be Dresden's favorite bartender, MacAnally?
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So... it's probably nothing, but reading about Ethniu's dad, Balor, on Wikipedia, I came across a character named Mac Kineely.
The story is that Balor stole Mac's magic cow of plenty. There was a prophecy that Mac couldn't get the cow back while Balor was alive, but that Balor could only be killed by his grandson. In order to fulfill the prophecy and get his magic cow back, Mac is transported by one of the fairy folk to the tower where Balor was keeping his daughter sequestered (to prevent a grandchild and the fulfillment of the prophecy). Mac seduces the daughter and gets her pregnant. The grandson kills Balor and Mac gets his cow back.
The daughter's name: Ethniu.
Could Mac Kineely be Dresden's favorite bartender, MacAnally?
I doubt it, because Titians have been around longer than Mac, but it is possible. Maybe it will be Mac that stops her?
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I doubt it, because Titians have been around longer than Mac, but it is possible. Maybe it will be Mac that stops her?
We don't know how long Mac has been around, though?
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Mira- where did you get that the titans are older than Mac?
I didn’t realize we knew his age...or really anything apart from he makes amazing beer he’s out, Sharkface called him watcher, and Odin and Mab show him respect.
I’ve been wondering where the Tuatha de Danann are in all of this. The Formor are linked to that mythology. So is Balor and Ethniu. I was going to pin Mac for Goibniu because of the brewing and I love the Iron Druid Chroincles. Odin stayed “in the game” but Mac bowed out and gave up his power to stay on the sidelines. Heck, maybe he was one of the gods who shaped/dumped power into the fae.
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Must... Resist... Derailing... With... Own... Theory...
Sounds pretty good, and possible. But also anticlimactic. I'm not sure how this Mac Kineely would be a Watcher or relevant to the Outsiders?
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Mira- where did you get that the titans are older than Mac?
I didn’t realize we knew his age...or really anything apart from he makes amazing beer he’s out, Sharkface called him watcher, and Odin and Mab show him respect.
I’ve been wondering where the Tuatha de Danann are in all of this. The Formor are linked to that mythology. So is Balor and Ethniu. I was going to pin Mac for Goibniu because of the brewing and I love the Iron Druid Chroincles. Odin stayed “in the game” but Mac bowed out and gave up his power to stay on the sidelines. Heck, maybe he was one of the gods who shaped/dumped power into the fae.
Bulfinch's Mythology says;
A race of primordial deities, children of Heaven and Earth, finally overcome by the thunderbolts of rebellious Jupiter who banished them to Tartarus. Twelve of them according
to oldest accounts, six male and six female: Oceanus, Coeus, Crius, Hyerion, Iapetus,Cronus, Theia, Rhea, Themis, Mnemosyne, Phiebe, and Tethys
I think we are talking two different mythologies Greek/Roman verses Irish..
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But I think Butcher is equating Titans with Jotun with Fomor. A lot of mythologies have an older deity generation that giants that are wiped out. Even Christianity has the nephilim that are sometimes called giants, but they're wiped out.
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But I think Butcher is equating Titans with Jotun with Fomor. A lot of mythologies have an older deity generation that giants that are wiped out. Even Christianity has the nephilim that are sometimes called giants, but they're wiped out.
My point is it depends on which or who's mythology one cares to sight.. Goliath was a giant.
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Ya. Balor and Ethniu are from Irish/Celtic mythology as far as I know. Not Greco-Roman. How she has the title “the last titan” is a mystery to me. Though my theory is this is another example of mantles and masks- perhaps she was a Greek deity/Titan originally. When that religion faded she picked up a new mask in the Irish mythos.
Given the commonalities between some religions- mainly a Sky/Thunder god as head of the pantheon, I wonder how many different identities Vadderung’s had over his life.
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Ya. Balor and Ethniu are from Irish/Celtic mythology as far as I know. Not Greco-Roman. How she has the title “the last titan” is a mystery to me. Though my theory is this is another example of mantles and masks- perhaps she was a Greek deity/Titan originally. When that religion faded she picked up a new mask in the Irish mythos.
Given the commonalities between some religions- mainly a Sky/Thunder god as head of the pantheon, I wonder how many different identities Vadderung’s had over his life.
That's what I'm saying. Titan could just be a regional name for the entities called Jotun or Fomor elsewhere. They don't have to be overlapping identities, they're just the giants that ruled over different regions of Earth around the same time. And each Giant Pantheon was overthrown by a younger Pantheon.
So now "Titan" could be the most commonly recognized name for that "species", because they don't want to use "giant" because it doesn't carry the metaphysical presence. And let's be honest, the general public had all but forgotten Jotun until the MCU, and nobody remembers the Fomor.
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Ya. Balor and Ethniu are from Irish/Celtic mythology as far as I know. Not Greco-Roman. How she has the title “the last titan” is a mystery to me. Though my theory is this is another example of mantles and masks- perhaps she was a Greek deity/Titan originally. When that religion faded she picked up a new mask in the Irish mythos.
Given the commonalities between some religions- mainly a Sky/Thunder god as head of the pantheon, I wonder how many different identities Vadderung’s had over his life.
Odin isn't really a sky/thunder god like Zeus. Their main overlap is being the chief god in their pantheons. Of the Greek gods, Odin is most closely aligned with Hermes's domain of traveling, magic, and trickery.
I think "Titan" is a good catchall term for a member of a defeated pantheon. Those were relatively common in mythology, and the Fomor as described in the books would qualify.
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I think "Titan" is a good catchall term for a member of a defeated pantheon. Those were relatively common in mythology, and the Fomor as described in the books would qualify.
Not just fallen pantheons. They were all giants.
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Not just fallen pantheons. They were all giants.
"Giant" doesn't have much meaning, though. You could call Mab a giant based on her personal power alone. Ferrovax warps reality his power is so big.
Edit: Mab is also technically a Greek titan in cannon as Hecate.
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"Giant" doesn't have much meaning, though. You could call Mab a giant based on her personal power alone. Ferrovax warps reality his power is so big.
Edit: Mab is also technically a Greek titan in cannon as Hecate.
Sure, but Titan/Jotun/Fomor were all literally large in size, no proverbially giant. And since "giant" doesn't have the meaning it once did, Titan can be used as a classification.
Hecate being a Titan makes the point that while her power is still around, she isn't, or at least not as she was. It seems that the only Titan left as she was is Ethniu.
Or we're arguing in the wrong direction, and she was just the last Titan born. Seems unlikely, but hey, it's possible.
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Re: Hecate...
The six queens of fairy are all pieces of Hecate, with the bulk of the goddess's power vested in the Mothers. Hecate intact would be vastly greater than Mab alone.
Also, I think Hecate was a goddess, not a titan, though I'm not sure how formal the distinction is.
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Re: Hecate...
The six queens of fairy are all pieces of Hecate, with the bulk of the goddess's power vested in the Mothers. Hecate intact would be vastly greater than Mab alone.
Also, I think Hecate was a goddess, not a titan, though I'm not sure how formal the distinction is.
All titans were deities. Titan is just a deity in the generation before the Olympians in Greek mythology.
Also, I wouldn't be confident that Hecate would be vastly greater than Mab alone. There were more deities added to the pot before the six-way split. The Fates were in there, and I think there's a strong argument for Demeter as well.
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Re: Hecate...
The six queens of fairy are all pieces of Hecate, with the bulk of the goddess's power vested in the Mothers. Hecate intact would be vastly greater than Mab alone.
Also, I think Hecate was a goddess, not a titan, though I'm not sure how formal the distinction is.
From the pedia of wiki
] Her earliest appearance in literature was in Hesiod's Theogony in the last third part of the 8th century BCE[4] as a Titan goddess of great honor with domains in sky, earth, and sea.
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The MANTLES are parts of Hecate, only one of the mothers is the original I think all the rest have moved around, certainly the current Ladies, thanks to Dresden.
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Hecate being a Titan makes the point that while her power is still around, she isn't, or at least not as she was. It seems that the only Titan left as she was is Ethniu.
Or we're arguing in the wrong direction, and she was just the last Titan born. Seems unlikely, but hey, it's possible.
A new thought, what if Ethniu is the Last (Free) Titan? The rest could have been eaten up into other mantles or locked up with Alfred.
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A new thought, what if Ethniu is the Last (Free) Titan? The rest could have been eaten up into other mantles or locked up with Alfred.
I still like the idea that the whole "assault on Demonreach" near the end of Cold Days was (mostly) a cover-action for the underwater / stealth jailbreak by the Fomor of "the last Titan" who is their "Empress."
Some sort of major obscurement has kept Alfred from perceiving the single jailbroken cell under the lake.
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I still like the idea that the whole "assault on Demonreach" near the end of Cold Days was (mostly) a cover-action for the underwater / stealth jailbreak by the Fomor of "the last Titan" who is their "Empress."
Some sort of major obscurement has kept Alfred from perceiving the single jailbroken cell under the lake.
I don't think that happened.
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Yeah, Alfred knew who she was/what she was up to at the end of Peace Talks, I feel like he'd have reacted if she was a former guest of his.
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If Mac is Ethnui’s husband, can that be used against the Titan? Turn the Battle into a domestic dispute? As a distraction.
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If Mac is Ethnui’s husband, can that be used against the Titan? Turn the Battle into a domestic dispute? As a distraction.
Or a way to lure her to the Island, or into a prepared circle...
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Or just to the lakeshore.
A thought if Mac is Mac Kineely, he had a magic cow that could produce miraculous quantities of milk. What if Mac goes home at night to the cow and slices off the steaks for the next days menu from the living cow which heals overnight, repeated day after day? After all, he knows how to keep an apron clean. Mac is known for his steaks, not his shakes.