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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on June 19, 2018, 08:14:37 PM

Title: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 19, 2018, 08:14:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXHmnn0BmeU

#4, 2, and 1 sound like they would inspire Jim for the Dresden Files, and the Old Ones..  What do you think?
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 20, 2018, 03:56:24 AM
Yog-Sothoth will give you knowledge, but it leads to madness.  I'm thinking that when a wizard uses black magic it is tapping into the Outside, or and Old One, which leads to madness.  Much like the Outsiders are twisted, the wizard may be tapping into an Old Ones power to twist the power of Creation to destroy.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Zohak on June 20, 2018, 04:52:26 AM
"Through the Gates of the Silver Key" by H. P. Lovecraft - Carter Series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0XH6xBLjfA

text version...
http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/tgsk.aspx
http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/fiction/tgsk.aspx

hplovecraft collections
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIvp_SM7UrKuFgR3W77fWcg/playlists?shelf_id=23&view=50&sort=dd
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 20, 2018, 07:20:19 PM
Thanks!

Pretty interesting videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKQMBYYIrSU
Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos: Cthulhu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNY-H3cwxmU
Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos: Azathoth (The primal chaos) - The most powerful, and feared of the outer gods

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmZP0VSENCA
Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos: Yog-Sothoth (The most knowledgeable outer god)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAf5hz1tf2E
Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos: Shub-Niggurath (Inspiration for the mother to the Outsiders????)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYEBQJoz1_c
Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos: Nyarlathotep (inspiration for Drakul?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seMkbJxQAsU
Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos: Deep Ones (Inspiration for the Fomor?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fbGUs8Ukmw
Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos: Hastur (Inspiration for Nemesis?)


Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 20, 2018, 07:37:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ekm5yBOXLo
Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos: The Dreamlands (Inspiration for the NeverNever?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StNKrUKkeL0
Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos: Nodens (Previous defenders of the Outer Gates?)
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 20, 2018, 08:17:32 PM
No, no. Let me make this one perfectly clear, Gatekeeper is Nyarlahotep. He's the soul of the Outer Gods. Why? :-x
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Foxed on June 20, 2018, 10:57:16 PM
...

Only five?

We got Cthulhu. Azathoth. Yog-Sothoth. The Goat With The Thousand Young. Nyarlathotep (it's not clear whether he's a messenger or avatar of Azathoth, but he's clearly a separate entity). Hastur (though he's little more than a name). Mother Hydra and Father Dagon (though it's unclear whether either of these is Cthulhu). Magna Mater gets a mention in Rats in the Walls (you might know her better as Our Lady Underground from The Magicians or Joseph Campbell's cheekily named Our Lady of Mammoths or the Stone Age Venus figures). Lilith shows up in Horror at Red Hook, but she could be a Deep One (think the Fomor).

Basically, you can expect a Walker to be Nyarlathotep, the Fomor to be the Deep Ones, and it's possible that they worship Cthulhu.

Edit: And I maintain that the Queens are avatars of Magna Mater, who was Hecate.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 21, 2018, 05:03:50 AM
...

Only five?

We got Cthulhu. Azathoth. Yog-Sothoth. The Goat With The Thousand Young. Nyarlathotep (it's not clear whether he's a messenger or avatar of Azathoth, but he's clearly a separate entity). Hastur (though he's little more than a name). Mother Hydra and Father Dagon (though it's unclear whether either of these is Cthulhu). Magna Mater gets a mention in Rats in the Walls (you might know her better as Our Lady Underground from The Magicians or Joseph Campbell's cheekily named Our Lady of Mammoths or the Stone Age Venus figures). Lilith shows up in Horror at Red Hook, but she could be a Deep One (think the Fomor).

Basically, you can expect a Walker to be Nyarlathotep, the Fomor to be the Deep Ones, and it's possible that they worship Cthulhu.

Edit: And I maintain that the Queens are avatars of Magna Mater, who was Hecate.

Why would a Walker be Nyarlathotep?  Nyarlathotep is supposed to be the closest when it comes to being able to relate to humans.  Why wouldn't that be Drakul, who's trapped in a mortal form? 

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/The_Black_Man.jpg)
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 21, 2018, 05:08:56 AM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0wak26BTiGk/maxresdefault.jpg)


Outsiders.....  Why does is always have to be Outsiders?
(http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/3600000/Raiders-of-the-Lost-Ark-indiana-jones-3678087-1280-720.jpg)
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 21, 2018, 04:21:31 PM
Why would a Walker be Nyarlathotep?  Nyarlathotep is supposed to be the closest when it comes to being able to relate to humans.  Why wouldn't that be Drakul, who's trapped in a mortal form? 

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/The_Black_Man.jpg)
Cause he's more or less described as the position given a walker/knight/earthly avatar?
Check again the list of Nyarla's common forms, the tall joyous man exists in the DF...
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: peregrine on June 21, 2018, 04:27:52 PM
Cthulhu's not a god though, he's a priest thereof.  He's a Great Old One.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Foxed on June 21, 2018, 05:01:17 PM
Why would a Walker be Nyarlathotep?  Nyarlathotep is supposed to be the closest when it comes to being able to relate to humans.  Why wouldn't that be Drakul, who's trapped in a mortal form? 

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/The_Black_Man.jpg)

... Nyarlathotep isn't mortal. He's the most personable, but he's not mortal. He's canonically the devil that the Salem witches got their powers from (Dreams in the Witch House), the custodian of the gods in unknown Kadath in the Dreamlands (The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath), and a techno-cult leader based on Tesla (Nyarlathotep).

When he shows up, it's usually to have fun with the mortals.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Foxed on June 21, 2018, 05:02:48 PM
Cthulhu's not a god though, he's a priest thereof.  He's a Great Old One.

He's worshipped as a god by mortals and that's pretty much the definition of a good in this fantasy series.

Edit: if you want to get TECHNICAL, none of the Lovecraft gods are anything more than super powerful alien beings beyond mortal ken. Azathoth is literally the chaos at the universe's nucleus.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: peregrine on June 21, 2018, 05:10:49 PM
Yeah, but the Mythos does broadly differentiate between Great Old Ones, Outer Gods, and a variety of other categories.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 21, 2018, 05:30:49 PM
... Nyarlathotep isn't mortal. He's the most personable, but he's not mortal. He's canonically the devil that the Salem witches got their powers from (Dreams in the Witch House), the custodian of the gods in unknown Kadath in the Dreamlands (The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath), and a techno-cult leader based on Tesla (Nyarlathotep).

When he shows up, it's usually to have fun with the mortals.

Drakul isn't mortal either.  He's trapped in a mortal form, that doesn't make him mortal though.  I think these characters from Lovecraft inspire Jim, I don't expect him to make carbon copies of the characters though, which is why I think Nyarlathotep is inspiration for Drakul, an Outsider who's trapped here in mortal form, but none the less an Outsider.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 21, 2018, 06:27:41 PM
.... Ya'll keep annoying me by ignoring GK as Nyarla ima have to strong arm you into listening. Let's see, soul of the outer gods... position as Gatekeeper, compared to Warden, if you look it up, is the same job duty, even in the dictionary they are the same actually
Quote
Warden 12 A gatekeeper
Quote
Gatekeeper 2 guardian; monitor:
GK is obviously a previous version of the Odin/Merlin/Harry rotation right? Do we all agree on that much btw?
GK's appearance is actually a mantle from when he has human/mortal, It's the gooey center that let Uriel transubstantiate. Some proof is in the scaring on his face, a wizard would have healed over the centuries until it was faint but Harry describes it as deep. But also why he's connected to time and knowing the future, He's on a similarly Outside time existence, in fact, quite literally parts of him are beyond time, the Old God's part. It's why he see's time differently and see's future events.... and why he stays out of it mostly except like Uriel or even Odin, to enable a choice.
Back to the Soul of the Old Gods, he's known for having thousands of forms, that's why his mortal form is his usual Mantle when he makes an appearance, when reality is unbalanced he's the first thing to manifest that imbalance. He's their soul because like with the fae mantles his soul is attached to their spirit, he's the host. His timeline ended opposite Merlins, instead of creating a prison by sacrificing his soulfire into a construct(look at DR again... Death Blessing indeed) he contained them within himself.(a prison is made in each rendition of reality, slightly different, but similar. Hades, Hell, DR, Gatekeeper.....)The darkness within the Joy he also contains, just like DR, Controlling the Ugly with the Beauty. It's why he can't step on DR, he's not from here and DR remembers this.(there's a lot more to that but that's for believers anyway lol)
More stuff, someone go ahead and argue this one please, I'd love proving what I know on this one.... :)

*OP, the 5 LC gods would easily align with the 5 main celestial Bodies in Greek astrology, the 5 epochs in Mesoamerican mythology, ect. So... mayhaps?
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 21, 2018, 06:30:25 PM
.... Ya'll keep annoying me by ignoring GK as Nyarla ima have to strong arm you into listening. Let's see, soul of the outer gods... position as Gatekeeper, compared to Warden, if you look it up, is the same job duty, even in the dictionary they are the same actually GK is obviously a previous version of the Odin/Merlin/Harry rotation right? Do we all agree on that much btw?
GK's appearance is actually a mantle from when he has human/mortal, It's the gooey center that let Uriel transubstantiate. Some proof is in the scaring on his face, a wizard would have healed over the centuries until it was faint but Harry describes it as deep. But also why he's connected to time and knowing the future, He's on a similarly Outside time existence, in fact, quite literally parts of him are beyond time, the Old God's part. It's why he see's time differently and see's future events.... and why he stays out of it mostly except like Uriel or even Odin, to enable a choice.
Back to the Soul of the Old Gods, he's known for having thousands of forms, that's why his mortal form is his usual Mantle when he makes an appearance, when reality is unbalanced he's the first thing to manifest that imbalance. He's their soul because like with the fae mantles his soul is attached to their spirit, he's the host. His timeline ended opposite Merlins, instead of creating a prison by sacrificing his soulfire into a construct(look at DR again... Death Blessing indeed) he contained them within himself.(a prison is made in each rendition of reality, slightly different, but similar. Hades, Hell, DR, Gatekeeper.....)The darkness within the Joy he also contains, just like DR, Controlling the Ugly with the Beauty. It's why he can't step on DR, he's not from here and DR remembers this.(there's a lot more to that but that's for believers anyway lol)
More stuff, someone go ahead and argue this one please, I'd love proving what I know on this one.... :)

Well here is the problem.  Nyarlathotep could destroy all of humanity if it chose.  Why doesn't it?  Because it enjoys tormenting humans so much.  It enjoys the pain, and suffering it can cause on the human toys.  In what way is the Gatekeeper like that?
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 21, 2018, 06:32:22 PM
Well here is the problem.  Nyarlathotep could destroy all of humanity if it chose.  Why doesn't it?  Because it enjoys tormenting humans so much.  It enjoys the pain, and suffering it can cause on the human toys.  In what way is the Gatekeeper like that?
He's not, that's not his mask, But if reality were to be unbalanced enough he'd change forms... Jim's not going that way with his earthly rep, the same way Supernatural went way different with Uriel.
*think about if Mab and Titania's mantles were in one person, but one was the container for the other, Summer power balancing Winter directly through willpower only, that's GK. he didn't split to become balanced in reality, he became whole to balance it.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 21, 2018, 07:03:52 PM
He's not, that's not his mask, But if reality were to be unbalanced enough he'd change forms... Jim's not going that way with his earthly rep, the same way Supernatural went way different with Uriel.
*think about if Mab and Titania's mantles were in one person, but one was the container for the other, Summer power balancing Winter directly through willpower only, that's GK. he didn't split to become balanced in reality, he became whole to balance it.

I don't know...  I doubt Mother Winter, or Mab would trust someone like that with the Outer gates.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 21, 2018, 10:50:32 PM
I don't know...  I doubt Mother Winter, or Mab would trust someone like that with the Outer gates.
Mother Winter!? The old Crone who want's to eat baby marrow? The necessary part of the balance of reality? That MW? Or that crazy Mab chick who want's to subsume the world and needs a check in reality?
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Foxed on June 21, 2018, 11:43:24 PM
Nyarlathotep would open the gate on a whim. For a laugh.

Also, Gatekeeper if officially the guy who killed Abdul Alhazred (which, um, the proper name would be Abd'Al-Hazred).
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 22, 2018, 03:33:11 AM
Nyarlathotep would open the gate on a whim. For a laugh.
He did open up reality, that's how he became the gatekeeper.

Quote
Also, Gatekeeper if officially the guy who killed Abdul Alhazred (which, um, the proper name would be Abd'Al-Hazred).
Yea and the father of the previous GK was Dante Alighieri and that was wrote in... what 1300's and yet GK was around for thousands of years before that... So something is a Little Fishy over here too Black Cat guys...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 22, 2018, 04:01:57 AM
He did open up reality, that's how he became the gatekeeper.

Nyarlathotep  is a bad guy.  Do you think Gatekeeper is as well?
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 22, 2018, 04:32:17 AM
Mordite could be manifested bits of
Ialdagorth (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos_deities).
Quote
Ialdagorth (The Dark Devourer) is both the cousin and servant of Azathoth, appearing as a black, shapeless, malevolent mist. The sight of such a fiend is unsettling if not traumatizing.
The physical description is pretty close, and "Dark Devourer" is apt for deathstone.  Ivy even says, "The duel will end when it has devoured one of you.”  Not to mention mordite in Turn Coat is called a "mistfiend".
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 22, 2018, 04:48:29 AM
Mordite could be manifested bits of
Ialdagorth (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos_deities).The physical description is pretty close, and "Dark Devourer" is apt for deathstone.  Ivy even says, "The duel will end when it has devoured one of you.”  Not to mention mordite in Turn Coat is called a "mistfiend".

Good call!  Looks like Jim isn't using it as a single Outer god but took the idea of it and made it more like a destructive substance/creature/thing that can be acquired.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: peregrine on June 22, 2018, 05:01:18 AM
The mistfiend is not just mordite, but rather some sort of spirit/creature connected to and animating the mordite.  While Ivy's mordite thing was simply enchanted to be affected by Will, but otherwise inanimate and non-sentient.

Not to really argue against the main premise, just clarifying that they're two different things.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 22, 2018, 05:09:20 AM
The mistfiend is not just mordite, but rather some sort of spirit/creature connected to and animating the mordite.  While Ivy's mordite thing was simply enchanted to be affected by Will, but otherwise inanimate and non-sentient.

Not to really argue against the main premise, just clarifying that they're two different things.

According to the interwebs:

Mordite or Deathstone, is congealed antilife not of our World. It's first seen in Death Masks. In Death Masks, Harry Dresden describes it as congealed antilife, "a chip would make nuclear waste look like second hand smoke. Not from our reality, it's from Outside and sensitive to applied will.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: peregrine on June 22, 2018, 05:11:06 AM
I'd have to double check the book, but I'm pretty sure the "sensitive to applied will" was an extra add-on for the purposes of the duel.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 22, 2018, 02:57:25 PM
Nyarlathotep  is a bad guy.  Do you think Gatekeeper is as well?
Heinrich Kemmler is a bad guy... except Harry is his 'light' version and manifest's his proper version through the Walkers manifesting in response.... Hwwb4's cloak, made from sackcloth strips of Harry's duster which Molly spread around the fear for, is the exact same enspellment found upon Kemmlers robes proper...
Quote
Cloak of Mists and Shadows: Kemmler is surrounded by a dark cloak that swirls and twists with a life of its own.
The antichrist is a bad guy, except Harry is going to manifest the second coming with Marcone picking up his more mundane and evilish aspects, is Harry evil? Predications of limitations based on perspective are of little value, nothing in our own mythology of Mab implies the greater good she serves in the DF or the reasonings then behind their actions and motivations are anything but their nature... Is Mab 'evil'? Is Chaos itself? Cause that's what your asking anyway. Can an uncarved block contain 'evil'? Naturally, the uncarved block represents every possibility all at once, every shape and form it can be shaped into, but despite containing these countless, unfathomable possibilities, NONE of them define the block itself. Wuji, no shape, no form, no change, the goal of the outsiders... is and uncarved block for reality itself. GK contains that idea as its representation, and they cannot gainsay it so long as he exists... Same thing with the Walkers trying to kill or corrupt their current formations in the light.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 22, 2018, 03:44:05 PM
The mistfiend is not just mordite, but rather some sort of spirit/creature connected to and animating the mordite.  While Ivy's mordite thing was simply enchanted to be affected by Will, but otherwise inanimate and non-sentient.

Not to really argue against the main premise, just clarifying that they're two different things.
Good point.  I'll still go with the idea that the congealed anti-life could be physical manifestation of Ialdagorth, in the sense that it's an aspect or unconscious avatar of the being itself. 

I do find it interesting that a "mistfiend" (I'm going to assume Langtry knows what he's talking about) is compatible with mordite, and able to be in contact with it without dying.  It must be a creature that has no physical form, and isn't alive, but still has a consciousness and the ability to manifest a "form" that looks like a smokey mist.

Makes me wonder about its origins.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Foxed on June 22, 2018, 05:13:23 PM
He did open up reality, that's how he became the gatekeeper.

... Citation needed.

Quote
Yea and the father of the previous GK was Dante Alighieri and that was wrote in... what 1300's and yet GK was around for thousands of years before that... So something is a Little Fishy over here too Black Cat guys...
(click to show/hide)

Or Rashid wasn't the Gatekeeper when he took out Abd'Al-Hazred. Or Alighieri is older than we think because of the slow path. Or Abd'Al-Hazred lived longer than we thought after writing the Necronomicon. Or any number of other explanations.

Lots of stretches to make Gatekeeper Rashid into Nyarlathotep.

Not too big of a stretch to make him a Walker-- am avatar of an Outsider in this reality causing mischief?
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 22, 2018, 05:55:22 PM
... Citation needed.
Whahahaha! How deep down the rabbit hole can you go?
Quote
Or Rashid wasn't the Gatekeeper when he took out Abd'Al-Hazred. Or Alighieri is older than we think because of the slow path. Or Abd'Al-Hazred lived longer than we thought after writing the Necronomicon. Or any number of other explanations.

Lots of stretches to make Gatekeeper Rashid into Nyarlathotep.

Not too big of a stretch to make him a Walker-- am avatar of an Outsider in this reality causing mischief?
He's the father of the previous GK, not the GK, he'd not be in any slow path. Lot's of stetches to think he's just a walker and ignore any Rashid as Nyarla,
Quote
Rashid- Means "rightly guided" in Arabic.
Nyarlahotep.... it bears the historical Egyptian suffix -hotep, meaning "peace" or "satisfaction."
...In his first appearance in "Nyarlathotep" (1920), he is described as a "tall, swarthy man" who resembles an ancient Egyptian pharaoh.
...Nyarlathotep, however, is active and frequently walks the Earth in the guise of a human being, usually a tall, slim, joyous man. He has "a thousand" other forms, most of these reputed to be maddeningly horrific
Quote
Alhazred had been kidnapped in Damascus and brought to the Nameless City, where he had earlier studied and learned some of the Necronomicon's lore. As punishment for betraying their secrets, Alhazred was tortured. Then they blinded him, severed his tongue and executed him.
Who killed him in the DF? Oh... and why was he killed in the Lore...? Whose secrets then, the people who killed him right? Mmm... Seems like he caused an imbalance telling people about the Old Gods and they sent their avatar to do gruesome things in that imbalance, as I postulated GK would do in such an imbalance.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 22, 2018, 07:50:24 PM
Sorry...  Just don't think that Mother Winter would allow an Outsider, or Old One to watch the Gates for Nemfected people.  That's like having a fox keep an eye on the chicken coup.  Also don't think of Rashid is someone who delights in pain, and suffering. 
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 22, 2018, 08:12:48 PM
Stephen King will be targeted by the Archive.....

(https://www.bookstr.com/sites/default/files/2018-06/skfeat1.jpg)
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 22, 2018, 08:53:48 PM
Sorry...  Just don't think that Mother Winter would allow an Outsider, or Old One to watch the Gates for Nemfected people.  That's like having a fox keep an eye on the chicken coup.  Also don't think of Rashid is someone who delights in pain, and suffering.
Your limited in your idea of MW, it's based on nothing in the book, she's not from our world either, an she's not exactly cosmically unbound to reshape reality to her will. She IS an Outsider. Your idea on Rashid is also similar to saying Santa would never hurt people cause that's not our perspective of Santa. It's in and of itself moot to the credence of the details themselves.
I mean his formation is not that hard to understand in the cyclic nature of things, take DR and have Harry darkhallow on it while containing the seething mass of monstrousities beneath his own strong will and beliefs. He would basically be Nyarlahotep, the  enlightened one, the rightly guided one... The earthly soul to the spirit of the Outer Gods. His cloak as dark as night itself, blah, blah blah.
Funny thing is if i'm right we get to see this one happen in the past-future :) and then I gloat maniacally at the limitation of others and know that all this time spent alone in my enlightenment was not for naught.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 22, 2018, 11:11:50 PM
Your limited in your idea of MW, it's based on nothing in the book, she's not from our world either

lol...  Well you're making a lot of statements as facts, and not as a theory or guess.  I've had some off the wall idea's, but I post them as such, ideas. 
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 23, 2018, 03:16:17 AM
lol...  Well you're making a lot of statements as facts, and not as a theory or guess.  I've had some off the wall idea's, but I post them as such, ideas.
It's a theory, just like evolution. I'm citing the solution as viable, everything else is evidence already made fact, unless you'd actually try to point out any fallibles in the facts I've presented, in which case your free to do so.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 23, 2018, 05:06:27 AM
It's a theory, just like evolution. I'm citing the solution as viable, everything else is evidence already made fact, unless you'd actually try to point out any fallibles in the facts I've presented, in which case your free to do so.

Alright well I think the first argument I'd make is that he's on the Senior Council.  I think that after all this time they would have figured out he was not a mortal wizard.  One of the big reasons for this is only mortal wizard can do certain kinds of magic, or at least that's the rules that have been laid out to us.  I don't think he'd be allowed to be a member if he was not an actual wizard.  No one else like Mab, or the Mothers, or Angels or anyone sits on the Senior Council except mortal wizards.

Quote
Nyarlahotep, the  enlightened one, the rightly guided one
"The faceless god", "The messenger of the Outer gods", "The Crawling chaos"....The list goes on.  Here is how the story goes when he was a Pharaoh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1rm9KRBg7g


Mother Winter I guess could be an Outer god, but what indication is there besides her sunny disposition?
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 23, 2018, 05:22:05 PM
Alright well I think the first argument I'd make is that he's on the Senior Council.  I think that after all this time they would have figured out he was not a mortal wizard.  One of the big reasons for this is only mortal wizard can do certain kinds of magic, or at least that's the rules that have been laid out to us.  I don't think he'd be allowed to be a member if he was not an actual wizard.  No one else like Mab, or the Mothers, or Angels or anyone sits on the Senior Council except mortal wizards.
And on the grey council either, but we already have one God/mortal on it, Odin. Wizardy is the required element and a mantle does not unmake a wizard. Odin manages both and GK's the next archetype over from Odin, He's Horus, more or less, in Origin. The Moon being his domain is the biggest indicator I remember on why... but we've previously hashed this out here at one point. I don't see a purely mortal nothing have a domain of their own(which is to say a place that they sync to exactly, Like Odin and Norway) that's gotten to by walking across the surface of the moon... NOW a moon god though....
Quote
"The faceless god", "The messenger of the Outer gods", "The Crawling chaos"....The list goes on.  Here is how the story goes when he was a Pharaoh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1rm9KRBg7g


Mother Winter I guess could be an Outer god, but what indication is there besides her sunny disposition?
Besides MS telling her it's not her world, power level. She's a F'n beast in power? Various other reasonings, but most of what I theorize is springboarded off of what I consider other viable theory, Like MW is basically the embodiment of DR. The Traveling Stone next to her cottage is actually the lighthouse entrance, hence it leading to the Outer Gates. Also why it's originally put in as HERS and not theirs, MS just stays there by proxy. She's not Death so much as The End, of all things. Those forgotten become nothing more than an aspect of her Masks.(Lady Night, Nyx, the Darkness, oblivion conceptualized). An those things insider her waiting to get out? It's like the mental battles in GS, except she broke off a portion of herself, gave it leverage, to fight against the things struggling to get out.(your not immune to yourself, after all) If you want to get into the Lore, DR is the reason she's crippled, each hall represents one of her ankles, knee's, hips, shoulders, elbows and hands, respectively.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 23, 2018, 06:09:16 PM
And on the grey council either, but we already have one God/mortal on it, Odin.

Sorry, apples and oranges.  The White Council is mortal wizards with rules, laws, and traditions built over thousands of years.  The Grey Council is a covert group that was just thrown together with any allies they can find.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 23, 2018, 07:28:02 PM
Sorry, apples and oranges.  The White Council is mortal wizards with rules, laws, and traditions built over thousands of years.  The Grey Council is a covert group that was just thrown together with any allies they can find.
You seriously think 13 is randomly going to pop up as the number when 13 wizards are the max to work on one spell? So we'll have 13... but you guys stand back while us seven work this mortal spellframe that you can't work on with us.... and the idea of the WC is kinda laughable to be put that way, they break their own rules, they have no idea why their laws actually exist, they really wouldn't have any clue to someone whose older then them, someone intentionally secretive, being anything but capable of mortal magic... Do you really think Odin is NOT? Because that's the only point that matters there, not if the council is aware or because they have traditions, can he pull off being a mortal wizard? Of course he can, the uncarved block has a mortal wizard in it. Just like Uriel having a human form under the Grace. The Grace being able to be separated so he becomes human shows a differentiation in totality. The mantle currently expressed being able to be changed so Odin can be fae or Aesir or his mortal guise beneath it? It's what GK's appearance is, his mortal formation before death, in some ways similar to Ferro eating a Centurion and ergo able to manifest just that tiny bit of himself. It's his "knight' without separation from person, just identity. Like if MW had her Stick she'd be Baba Yaga with her Mortar and pestle, go anywhere grind and eat anything. an alternative identity still connected to the whole.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 23, 2018, 07:50:28 PM
You seriously think 13 is randomly going to pop up as the number when 13 wizards are the max to work on one spell? So we'll have 13... but you guys stand back while us seven work this mortal spellframe that you can't work on with us.... and the idea of the WC is kinda laughable to be put that way, they break their own rules, they have no idea why their laws actually exist, they really wouldn't have any clue to someone whose older then them, someone intentionally secretive, being anything but capable of mortal magic... Do you really think Odin is NOT? Because that's the only point that matters there, not if the council is aware or because they have traditions, can he pull off being a mortal wizard? Of course he can, the uncarved block has a mortal wizard in it. Just like Uriel having a human form under the Grace. The Grace being able to be separated so he becomes human shows a differentiation in totality. The mantle currently expressed being able to be changed so Odin can be fae or Aesir or his mortal guise beneath it? It's what GK's appearance is, his mortal formation before death, in some ways similar to Ferro eating a Centurion and ergo able to manifest just that tiny bit of himself. It's his "knight' without separation from person, just identity. Like if MW had her Stick she'd be Baba Yaga with her Mortar and pestle, go anywhere grind and eat anything. an alternative identity still connected to the whole.

Outsiders are not Mantles
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 23, 2018, 07:59:47 PM
Outsiders are not Mantles
What is MW? What is a mask of identity based on things inside reality that cause fear, or those things that loathsomely cause death? All they have manifest as are 'Mantles' so far. Besides, Mantle is too limited. Grace also can be worn. And take away the subtle structure of the mantle and it's really no different from a possession. Fearbringer was a mantle of fear cause or felt by Molly, When Hwwbh manifest he did the same thing. Some of his aspects are actually found quite easily in Cat Sith,(his mouth, also he's manifesting Naagloshi..) hence him later being able to be the one controlling Sith with the 'look behind you' joke. It was a double ontondra  to his identity. And the second time he's toyed with Harry til Harry 'wins', quite intentionally.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 23, 2018, 08:15:04 PM
What is MW?
MW?  Well my opinion is she, like other Sidhe started small, and grew bigger over time, and then obtained many Mantles.  Either that or a very early mortal who obtained power via worship, sacrifice, or obtaining Mantles over eons or all three.  Or a celestial Being like a Dragon.

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What is a mask of identity based on things inside reality that cause fear, or those things that loathsomely cause death?
Much of Summer and Winter are weather conditions, and life cycles that happen on Earth manifested into Beings.  Fear, and death are part of life, it doesn't have to mean they are Outsiders


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All they have manifest as are 'Mantles' so far. Besides, Mantle is too limited. Grace also can be worn. And take away the subtle structure of the mantle and it's really no different from a possession. Fearbringer was a mantle of fear cause or felt by Molly, When Hwwbh manifest he did the same thing. Some of his aspects are actually found quite easily in Cat Sith,(his mouth, also he's manifesting Naagloshi..) hence him later being able to be the one controlling Sith with the 'look behind you' joke. It was a double ontondra  to his identity. And the second time he's toyed with Harry til Harry 'wins', quite intentionally.

The debate about Mantles has been going on since I've been on the forums.  It's tough to say what is, and is not a Mantle especially when you get into the realm of Angels, Dragons, TWG, and Outsiders.  Mantles as we know them are from within the known universe while the Angels, and Outsiders were supposed to have existed before time itself.  That's the big difference between Outsiders and Beings like Odin.  Jim said the Sidhe were created for a purpose...  Created meaning they are temporary, they haven't always existed while TWG, Angels, Outsiders were around before time. 
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Avernite on June 23, 2018, 08:50:38 PM
It's a theory, just like evolution. I'm citing the solution as viable, everything else is evidence already made fact, unless you'd actually try to point out any fallibles in the facts I've presented, in which case your free to do so.
A random wild guess that may or may not even fit the books is nothing like a scientific theory, sorry.

Mother Winter and the Gatekeeper are rather clearly in the first line of defence against Outsiders. Now, they may be based on something from Outside crossing over, but much more likely seems that they are instead emergent features of reality; there is a reality and not-reality (Outside) and so they have to be separate. Something, or someone, has to stand on that line and maintain it - Winter and the Gatekeeper, at this time, as the prime champions of reality rather than Outside.

And I don't think Nyarlathotep would like to be tied down at the Outer Gates so much.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 23, 2018, 09:22:58 PM
And I don't think Nyarlathotep would like to be tied down at the Outer Gates so much.

Exactly.  If by some chance Gatekeeper was an Outsider, it would not be based on Nyarlathotep.  It's like saying Michael Myers was the inspiration for Harry Dresden.  Speaking of Michael Myers, here is the trailer for the new Halloween movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1ePFp-nBI
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 24, 2018, 01:12:30 AM
A random wild guess that may or may not even fit the books is nothing like a scientific theory, sorry.
actually it fits to a tittle :) you may or may not ignore the pretext presented in the books and the little clues dropped but that doth not unmake them either.

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Mother Winter and the Gatekeeper are rather clearly in the first line of defence against Outsiders. Now, they may be based on something from Outside crossing over, but much more likely seems that they are instead emergent features of reality; there is a reality and not-reality (Outside) and so they have to be separate. Something, or someone, has to stand on that line and maintain it - Winter and the Gatekeeper, at this time, as the prime champions of reality rather than Outside.

And I don't think Nyarlathotep would like to be tied down at the Outer Gates so much.
A shame basing things on sheer opinion does not a theory make or unmake then. Huh, I mean you've all repeatedly tried to bat something aside with that one phrase, "I don't think." Perhaps you should?
Cthulhu saves the world after all ;)
Also emergent features of reality... even Outside reality is a feature of reality per human though of what is beyond reality. We have lovecraftian outsiders in our belief systems now, inexplicably perhaps, but if we believe in them we give them purchase, You can't close the gates you can only define them. Nothing can be considered Outside except as Lovecrafts original intention, that of things that do not, and cannot be fathomed by human minds without breaking... we fathom these outsiders of lovecrafts, we even apparently do rituals across the DFverse based on said creatures... So what precisely stops these creatures from manifesting left and right besides already having a formation inside reality to rep them? See, it's the tough questions you gotta ask yourself to think on them. That's why I take all comers on certain theorums, I've asked the right questions.
*also known outsiders have cosmic magic spells that can summon them, but they are outsiders then because?
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: groinkick on June 24, 2018, 05:13:16 AM
they are outsiders then because?

They aren't from our reality, and want to destroy it.  As Jim said "God created this sandbox, and locked the Outsiders out.  They can only enter if humans invite them in because it's our sandbox."
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Avernite on June 24, 2018, 06:11:55 AM
actually it fits to a tittle :) you may or may not ignore the pretext presented in the books and the little clues dropped but that doth not unmake them either.
A shame basing things on sheer opinion does not a theory make or unmake then. Huh, I mean you've all repeatedly tried to bat something aside with that one phrase, "I don't think." Perhaps you should?
Well, I'm not the one claiming that I posit something equivalent to a sound scientific theory. As such my opinion is a fair enough argument, it just doesn't make my resulting pronouncement about the story a scientific theory.
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Cthulhu saves the world after all ;)
Also emergent features of reality... even Outside reality is a feature of reality per human though of what is beyond reality. We have lovecraftian outsiders in our belief systems now, inexplicably perhaps, but if we believe in them we give them purchase, You can't close the gates you can only define them. Nothing can be considered Outside except as Lovecrafts original intention, that of things that do not, and cannot be fathomed by human minds without breaking... we fathom these outsiders of lovecrafts, we even apparently do rituals across the DFverse based on said creatures... So what precisely stops these creatures from manifesting left and right besides already having a formation inside reality to rep them? See, it's the tough questions you gotta ask yourself to think on them. That's why I take all comers on certain theorums, I've asked the right questions.
*also known outsiders have cosmic magic spells that can summon them, but they are outsiders then because?
So far as we know it's precisely the Outer Gates and the Gatekeeper (backed by millions of Fae soldiers) that keep the creatures from manifesting left and right by stopping them at or outside the Gates. No guesswork about them having an agent on the inside necessary.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 24, 2018, 06:49:09 AM
They aren't from our reality, and want to destroy it.  As Jim said "God created this sandbox, and locked the Outsiders out.  They can only enter if humans invite them in because it's our sandbox."
They've been invited in, repetitively. They are Outsiders because? Naagloshi are on par enough with Outsiders they are now to be contained by DR, except Originally they were a part of Reality. In fact, they were Angelic Beings.... who refused to move on. They didn't get locked out when some massive gate was originally closed on our sandbox. They were 'exorcised' later, and not by The Creator. See, this is the problem, lets look at what ya'll think Outsiders are because they are a shape that seems to conveniently fit whichever way would let you say a truth that does not directly address ANY of the larger situations or problems behind the current viewpoint. So by all means, Define precisely what an Outsider IS so I can proceed to rip the idea apart :) Cause I see a lot of assumptions in the above statement.... Just like me you speak without any attention to deductive lacuna even though you cannot prove all parts of your statement unconditionally. YOU believe it and so it comes across as your truth, just like mine.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 24, 2018, 07:02:11 AM
Well, I'm not the one claiming that I posit something equivalent to a sound scientific theory. As such my opinion is a fair enough argument, it just doesn't make my resulting pronouncement about the story a scientific theory.
when did I use the word science? Are you doing science? NO? Still a sound deductive theorem and by all means I go more and more ammo for this one, just waiting in my subconscious mind to be retrieved by need... A theorem btw, is something that you can point back to as continual springboard into future cases of similar data patterns... I have a solid theorem. Made stronger by every person I have to debate on it, :) thanks duuude.
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So far as we know it's precisely the Outer Gates and the Gatekeeper (backed by millions of Fae soldiers) that keep the creatures from manifesting left and right by stopping them at or outside the Gates. No guesswork about them having an agent on the inside necessary.
Thar's not the same thing, at all. It's not Fearbringer taking over Scarecrow by mirage, It's not Scarecrow saying He's been serving the Queen of Air and Darkness(Not the Winter Queen note) since before human memory, cause human memory would be what keeps him, or any being from Oblivion, except perhaps an outsider trying to get back in Mmm? SO there is unequivocal proof in HIS, a fae's wording, he cannot have lied, unless he was Nemfected, which would simply prove the other half of my theorem correct. :)

....every good point I make nobody ever concedes to, the simply move on to a new straw man to throw up when they can't 'win' the original points in contention. You can't examine the fallacy before your face!?
 To be my Last Laugh, BET ;D
*Oh, just for giggles but you know Yeats Second Coming that's referenced repeatedly in the DF? It's in the Nyarlahotep Cycle, a compendium of works about or based on Nyarlahotep....
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Avernite on June 24, 2018, 08:51:25 AM
when did I use the word science? Are you doing science? NO? Still a sound deductive theorem and by all means I go more and more ammo for this one, just waiting in my subconscious mind to be retrieved by need... A theorem btw, is something that you can point back to as continual springboard into future cases of similar data patterns... I have a solid theorem. Made stronger by every person I have to debate on it, :) thanks duuude.
At this point I suppose we must conclude you have no clue what a scientific theory is, and so the resulting argument would fit better outside this forum - it clearly isn't that you understand but have a trove of supporting data to support your assertion.

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Thar's not the same thing, at all. It's not Fearbringer taking over Scarecrow by mirage, It's not Scarecrow saying He's been serving the Queen of Air and Darkness(Not the Winter Queen note) since before human memory, cause human memory would be what keeps him, or any being from Oblivion, except perhaps an outsider trying to get back in Mmm? SO there is unequivocal proof in HIS, a fae's wording, he cannot have lied, unless he was Nemfected, which would simply prove the other half of my theorem correct. :)....every good point I make nobody ever concedes to, the simply move on to a new straw man to throw up when they can't 'win' the original points in contention. You can't examine the fallacy before your face!?
 To be my Last Laugh, BET ;D
*Oh, just for giggles but you know Yeats Second Coming that's referenced repeatedly in the DF? It's in the Nyarlahotep Cycle, a compendium of works about or based on Nyarlahotep....
Or maybe Scarecrow is saying that current humans do not remember everything any human ever remembered - so that what he's saying is "I was there with the early humans, whom you puny people don't even remember".
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 24, 2018, 05:06:20 PM
At this point I suppose we must conclude you have no clue what a scientific theory is, and so the resulting argument would fit better outside this forum - it clearly isn't that you understand but have a trove of supporting data to support your assertion.
what? You sure your not attacking the person here? Getting in to dangerous territory with your inability to address the issues. attack the argument, not the person... if you even can :) Supporting data does tend to support, doesn't it lol?
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Or maybe Scarecrow is saying that current humans do not remember everything any human ever remembered - so that what he's saying is "I was there with the early humans, whom you puny people don't even remember".
Since before human memory. Those early humans also remember things now forgotten to Oblivion, intentionally. This isn't even a rebuke to the idea.... your idea confirms he'd be amongst the Obliviated....
*oh and uhh...
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Theorem= a general proposition not self-evident but proved by a chain of reasoning; a truth established by means of accepted truths.
yea. See my Truths made real by establishment of other Truths... that some tend to conveniently ignore. I propose a general perspective of the DFverse based on these principle truths that I can point to in book and woj evidence to support ;p
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Avernite on June 24, 2018, 08:51:53 PM
what? You sure your not attacking the person here? Getting in to dangerous territory with your inability to address the issues. attack the argument, not the person... if you even can :)
I am attacking your abuse of the concept of a scientific theory, not the issues or you.
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*oh and uhh... yea. See my Truths made real by establishment of other Truths... that some tend to conveniently ignore. I propose a general perspective of the DFverse based on these principle truths that I can point to in book and woj evidence to support ;p
And that is not at all like a scientific theory like the theory of evolution. They may have once started at a similar level, as a hypothesis grounded in data, but without predictions proven true (which we'd need more books for) your idea cannot proceed further.

Now, snipping back:

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Supporting data does tend to support, doesn't it lol?Since before human memory. Those early humans also remember things now forgotten to Oblivion, intentionally. This isn't even a rebuke to the idea.... your idea confirms he'd be amongst the Obliviated....
Uhh, why? He has served since before humanity can remember, but at no point does he say there was a time humanity didn't know him. Just that current humanity doesn't remember that time.
Humanity in 2000 BC knew him, Humanity in 1 AD knew him, Humanity in 2000 AD knew him, but Humanity in 2000 AD doesn't remember 2000 BC (mix and match dates as needed).
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 24, 2018, 10:47:41 PM
I am attacking your abuse of the concept of a scientific theory, not the issues or you.And that is not at all like a scientific theory like the theory of evolution. They may have once started at a similar level, as a hypothesis grounded in data, but without predictions proven true (which we'd need more books for) your idea cannot proceed further.
Actually smarty pants, Prove Gravity exists... you can't, it's still a theory. You can see the visible results from it, you can deduct the results of it's influence but you can't prove gravity exists because you can't visibly produce it(and before you wanna argue me on this, go argue the science guy on Tedtalks whose speech i'm ripping off instead, thanks)
on to the cutting at my edges and ad hominem things...
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attacking your abuse of the concept of a scientific theory
But I didn't say scientific, this isn't science it's reading comprehension. So saying i'm abusing scientific theory's is actually just to try to insult me(cut those edges you ;) it's gonna be hard for you to use reverse psychology on someone who enjoys psychology after all)
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you have no clue
that's ad hominem, and false, as I've proved already, but you insist on troping the same argument thinking it matters...
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isn't that you understand but have a trove of supporting data to support your assertion.
this statement is simply asinine of itself here.
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A random wild guess that may or may not even fit the books is nothing like a scientific theory, sorry.
Random wild guesses cannot, by their nature, be supported by a trove of date, your sorry feels similar to someone saying,"I don't mean to be rude, BUT." I'm actually going to be and this is my excuse me lately. Simply meant to cut again...
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Now, snipping back:
See, and that's your assumption, AND your admission of self guilt, it's your intention. I'm simply defending my position.... successfully I might add ;)
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Uhh, why? He has served since before humanity can remember, but at no point does he say there was a time humanity didn't know him. Just that current humanity doesn't remember that time.
You do know how the Oblivion war works right? If humanity forgot him there would be a disassociation between him, and the him who is remembered. Which is why, for instance, Mab had the brothers Grimm reassert their prime identity by distributing knowledge on them.
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Humanity in 2000 BC knew him, Humanity in 1 AD knew him, Humanity in 2000 AD knew him, but Humanity in 2000 AD doesn't remember 2000 BC (mix and match dates as needed).
That's Oblivion then ain't it... If here and know they don't remember whom he was then, then he's not that person anymore.
Now, quite apart from my ability to theorize, if your going to attempt to bother me on a personal level you'll need to bring a lot more game to the table...
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: Avernite on June 25, 2018, 07:53:50 PM
Actually smarty pants, Prove Gravity exists... you can't, it's still a theory. You can see the visible results from it, you can deduct the results of it's influence but you can't prove gravity exists because you can't visibly produce it(and before you wanna argue me on this, go argue the science guy on Tedtalks whose speech i'm ripping off instead, thanks)
 
So you really don't understand the difference between the science word theory and the book-discussion word theory.

Gravity being proven has nothing to do with anything. The Theory of Gravity having predictive power is what makes it a scientific theory; your theory which has succesfully predicted nothing cannot be a scientific theory (it could be a scientific hypothesis if it predicted something which had not yet come to pass).

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on to the cutting at my edges and ad hominem things...
But I didn't say scientific, this isn't science it's reading comprehension. So saying i'm abusing scientific theory's is actually just to try to insult me(cut those edges you ;) it's gonna be hard for you to use reverse psychology on someone who enjoys psychology after all)
You are abusing it by saying "It's a theory, just like evolution.". It is not. It is a theory by the book-discussion standard (some idea which you have based on book snippets and some extrapolation), but not a theory by scientific standards (what evolution is, because your theory has not provided any predictions that could be falsified and then were not because they seem to be true)

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You do know how the Oblivion war works right? If humanity forgot him there would be a disassociation between him, and the him who is remembered. Which is why, for instance, Mab had the brothers Grimm reassert their prime identity by distributing knowledge on them.
Say I remember five years ago today, but no longer remember 30 years ago. This does not necessarily mean there is any single day where I didn't remember myself; it simply means that my remembrance is shifting in time.

To remember Mab and stop her from going to Oblivion, you don't need to remember she was around in the year 1000. You just need to know she exists right now.

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That's Oblivion then ain't it... If here and know they don't remember whom he was then, then he's not that person anymore.
Now, quite apart from my ability to theorize, if your going to attempt to bother me on a personal level you'll need to bring a lot more game to the table...
Oblivion isn't "the creature is no longer the exact same as 1000 years ago". I no longer remember who I was 30 years ago, and I am not the same, but I'm still the same being/creature/human.
Title: Re: The 5 gods of Lovecraft
Post by: jonas on June 25, 2018, 08:32:59 PM
So you really don't understand the difference between the science word theory and the book-discussion word theory.

Gravity being proven has nothing to do with anything. The Theory of Gravity having predictive power is what makes it a scientific theory; your theory which has succesfully predicted nothing cannot be a scientific theory (it could be a scientific hypothesis if it predicted something which had not yet come to pass).
You should probably read the new Q n A post from mothers day, where Jim outright says that Rashid was the previous Harry Dresden in the last cycle. Implying he WAS in fact the Warden, ergo his formation just got some merit, ergo a prediction. Or we could simply look at the fact he specifically used the word cycle and my over theory has to do with how time/history is repeating itself due to the gyre mentioned in Yeat's second coming which has then been referenced throughout the books. So I predicted the fact there WAS a cycle at all... I think I'm done here ;)
The Q&A was posted mere hours ago, but seems to have been shot on Mother's day.  I can't tell if the Label of it being 2017 is correct. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnIZcNMU_uM

The only Holy Shizz stuff for me was the heavy insinuation (he doesn't quite come right out and say it being Jim) that Rashid was the previous Warden of Demonreach. 

There was also mention of Lucifer being a character, and another rundown of the Maggie Dresdenverse Hogwarts YA series co-written with his sister.
Ohhh snaps, my theory just became viable by your own argument, huh? Thanks again :)